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World of Ice and Fire App Update

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Rhaenys,



I noticed that as well, but I did understand that Brandon wanted to fight a duel with Rhaegar - no idea about the specifics, though. Defending her honor, fighting over the right to marry her, any such thing would be possible. Although no trial-by-combat per se, since Brandon Stark most likely had not the legal authority to charge the Prince of Dragonstone of a crime. Perhaps Lord Rickard could have, but Brandon wasn't entitled to anything.



From Aerys' entry:



'When her brother Brandon Stark, the heir to Winterfell, rode to King's Landing with his companions, shouting for Rhaegar to face him and die, Aerys had them all arrested.'



From Brandon's entry:



'Riding to King's Landing with a few companions, he shouted for Rhaegar to come forward, promising that he'd kill him in single combat.'



That strongly suggest Brandon challenged Rhaegar to a duel to defend/restore the honor of Lyanna. It was not a threat to murder him while Rhaegar was not defending himself. But considering the whole 'who hurts Targaryens loses that hand' thing, this was clearly something no nobleman in Westeros should do if he has wits about him.



Nittanian,



I realized that, too, but it was heavily implied, in my memory, that it was not unlikely that Bronn had arranged Lady Tanda's riding accident, and Cersei thinks - probably correctly - that he'll see to it that she does not survive this ordeal. But it's still not literally correct. One could add the fact that she died of a chill after she had a suspicious riding accident.



By the way: Squire Dalbridge was squire to Jaehaerys II. Not sure if that has come up already, but if I'm not mistaken. It's still cool! Now I want to know how the hell he ended up at the Wall...


Edited by Lord Varys

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Nittanian,

I realized that, too, but it was heavily implied, in my memory, that it was not unlikely that Bronn had arranged Lady Tanda's riding accident, and Cersei thinks - probably correctly - that he'll see to it that she does not survive this ordeal. But it's still not literally correct. One could add the fact that she died of a chill after she had a suspicious riding accident.

It can be read that way yes. The Stokeworths tell Cersei that Tanda fell from their horse due to a stableboy not fastening a cinch tight enough (or something along those lines) which could mean Bronn had arranged for that to happen. It is (or at least was) open to interpretation though

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Stuff to delete.


Edited by Lord Varys

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Doran's entry:



No mistake, but a possible inconsistency. Mellario threatens to kill herself when Doran wants to send Arianne to foster in Tyrosh. But then she leaves both her (estranged) husband, her daughter, and her little son, and leaves for Norvos. Would a woman with Mellario's character do this kind of thing?



Wouldn't she either stay with Trystane until he is grown up - or much more likely - take him with her? I really don't get that...


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Edited by Lord Varys

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Wow! The Elder Brother's entry is really great. Whoever wrote that one really conveyed the hidden meanings of the Sandor situation in a very subtle way. You really have to mind all that in the translation...


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Edited by Lord Varys

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Is it now confirmed that Joy Hill was supposed to marry one of Walder's bastards? Was the Westerling match thing a mistake by Jaime, due to Sybelle's wording during the conversation?


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Edited by Lord Varys

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Is it now confirmed that Joy Hill was supposed to marry one of Walder's bastards?

It is in the text of ASoS, in Tyrion's chapter where they get news of the Red Wedding and Joff acts up re: Tywin. Tyrion and Tywin have a discussion after Joff and Cersei have left and Tywin says:

"The price was cheap by any measure. The crown shall grant Riverrun to Ser Emmon Frey once the Blackfish yields. Lancel and Daven must marry Frey girls, Joy is to wed one of Lord Walder's natural sons when she is old enough, and Roose Bolton becomes Warden of the North and takes home Arya Stark."

Though, marriage between 2 bastards never made a lot of sense to me. If Joy has a comparatively big dowry, which I assume she does for Walder Frey to be interested in her, then wouldn't it make more sense for him to want her married to one of the minor Freys, who are so far down the line of succession that they don't have any inheritance of their own?

Was the Westerling match thing a mistake by Jaime, due to Sybelle's wording during the conversation?

I assume so. I doubt that Tywin would have promised Joy to Walder Frey and the Westerlings, both. And Sybelle wanted somebody of good blood, not a bastard, in order to raise the societal standing of the Westerlings again, after her own marriage into the family.

Edited by Maia

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Something new, that has not been mentioned elsewhere, I think:



The Isle of the Women was a place where Nymeria and her people sought refuge for a time, after they had fled the Rhoyne.


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Something new, that has not been mentioned elsewhere, I think:

The Isle of the Women was a place where Nymeria and her people sought refuge for a time, after they had fled the Rhoyne.

I read that somewhere and don't have the app...

Oh right I saw it in the Lands of Ice and Fire and then checked the wiki.

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I saw it in the app and it was mentioned somewhere. I assume Nymeria wanted to get as far from the Valyrians as possible and waiting for things to cool down before she headed for Dorne.


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Well, it's really great that some people who are not working on that thing are actually checking every single entry...



By the way, Joanna's entry adds a lot of fuel to J+A=T:



'In later years, Tywin's troubled relationship with Tyrion leads him to tell him that he wished he could prove Tyrion was not his son, suggesting that he is uncertain of Tyrion's paternity.'


Edited by Lord Varys

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But isn't it stated in the books that "Tywin Lannister ruled the Seven Kingdoms, but was ruled at home by his lady wife"? That places Joanna in CR, not in KL. And due to Aerys' behavior to Joanna during the bedding ceremony, I can totally see how Tywin would want to keep Joanna as far away from Aerys as he possibly could.


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That sentence means that Joanna called the shots at home, with Tywin. She got what she wanted, and Tywin did what she wanted. Not that she spent most of her time at home, although she was there when she was pregnant with Tyrion.



Aerys himself also traveled at least once to CR - for the tourney where Cersei's betrothal with Rhaegar was not announced (and I'm not sure, by the way: was Tyrion already born at this time?) - so it's not unlikely that he went there more often, especially while he and Tywin got along well.



And if Joanna had actually a secret affair with Aerys, she would have been able to find ways to see him, I'm sure of that.


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During the tourney where Tywin hoped to betroth Cersei to Rhaegar, Joanna had been dead for 2 or 3 years.



Side thought: If Aerys really wanted Joanna, still, after all those years, would it be possible that he started resenting Tywin for her dead? Since Tywin was the reason Joanna was pregnant (going with Tywin+Joanna=Tyrion), and her pregnancy is what caused her death. Adding an additional reason for Aerys resisting Tywins proposal.


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If I see this right, we get the first very subtle clues for this in AGoT.



We have the dragon dreams, friendship with Jon Snow (the other 'secret Targaryen'), and the fact that a hidden Targ bastard counsels a legitimate Targaryen heir to accept his bastardy and make it his strength would be actually the kind I expect from GRRM.



Then we get Shiera Seastar's mismatched eyes, Tywin's last words, and eventually Barristan Selmy's story about an attraction. This has to lead somewhere, especially if it turns out that the whole Targaryen blood thing is important for the dragon-riding process. Which seems to be the case.



Either Tyrion will try to tame a dragon because he learns - from Selmy - about his true heritage, or he'll realize that he is, in fact, not Tywin's son after he bonds with Viserion more or less by accident. He knows enough about dragonlore to realize that this not exactly happening all the time...


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If Tyrion really is a secret Targ, I can see it happening more like the second scenario you describe (accidentally bonding with a dragon), than the first scenario (conversation with Selmy). Tyrion had met Selmy several times before over the years, yet Selmy never even mentioned the subject? Strange thing..


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Well, it is odd that Tyrion does not once think of a conversation he had with Selmy. And I'm actually inclined to believe that GRRM may have postponed Tyrion's meeting with Dany/Barristan for TWoW to keep his heritage a secret a little while longer.



Back in KL, Barristan would have had no reason to tell Tyrion anything about his heritage. It would have been a secret of the king (if we assume that Selmy knew for a certainty that Aerys had slept with Joanna), and it would have done Tyrion plenty of harm to tell him that he was not, in fact, Tyrion of House Lannister, son of Tywin, but rather Tyrion Hill.


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