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HBO Releases First Four Episode Titles

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Also, I might add, Sandor and Arya is a hit. They keep saying there's lots more to come. And look a the Vanity Fair photos, for most viewers, it comes down to the Starks and the Lannisters plus Dany, and Brienne and Sandor are very directly and deeply involved with the storylines of those two families. Anyway, not hopeful, but making the case we see more of them on the show.

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Also, I might add, Sandor and Arya is a hit. They keep saying there's lots more to come. And look a the Vanity Fair photos, for most viewers, it comes down to the Starks and the Lannisters plus Dany, and Brienne and Sandor are very directly and deeply involved with the storylines of those two families. Anyway, not hopeful, but making the case we see more of them on the show.

Yes, I loved how they got Brienne along with the Lannisters : try and defend yourself before Stonehear after that :laugh:

And I really do hope they keep Jaime and Brienne's mirroring scenes, but since Brienne leaves so early it seems unlikely. I need to have the Golden slap of Justice though, you'd better not cut it guys !

Honestly I just can't figure it out, and it's slowly killing me. Bring on the damn season !

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I'm not a fan of the suggestion you quoted, but if you can't tell the difference between using a Frey (hint: bad) and Brienne (hint: good) then there's not much point discussing this.

I think it's important that LS initially be viewed in a fist-pump way, before we realize that she's on a hollow vengeance quest and is not who we should be rooting for. If she immediately goes after Brienne we completely lose any of that. It's one of the things GRRM does best; make us think something is great and then strip away it all away piece by piece.

I guess it's a matter of perspective, but I never thought the resurrection of Cat was a fist-pump moment: from the first time I read it, I clearly saw that she's become a monster on a hollow vengeance quest.

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Yes, I loved how they got Brienne along with the Lannisters : try and defend yourself before Stonehear after that :laugh:

And I really do hope they keep Jaime and Brienne's mirroring scenes, but since Brienne leaves so early it seems unlikely. I need to have the Golden slap of Justice though, you'd better not cut it guys !

Honestly I just can't figure it out, and it's slowly killing me. Bring on the damn season !

I was thinking the same thing! :) At least she stood apart.

Yeah, I have no hope for any of this really, but it would be nice to see.

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I guess it's a matter of perspective, but I never thought the resurrection of Cat was a fist-pump moment: from the first time I read it, I clearly saw that she's become a monster on a hollow vengeance quest.

I know and I agree, and I'm a big Cat fan! For me it was very sad, because LS really isn't Cat at all, and the fact she's threatening the one person who has risked her life to keep her promise to her, certainly doesn't help.

I suppose some just find it difficult to separate Cat/LS, and do want to see the Starks avenged. Now, I do too, but not like this.

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I know and I agree, and I'm a big Cat fan! For me it was very sad, because LS really isn't Cat at all, and the fact she's threatening the one person who has risked her life to keep her promise to her, certainly doesn't help.

I suppose some just find it difficult to separate Cat/LS, and do want to see the Starks avenged. Now, I do too, but not like this.

Exactly. It's not that I didn't like the moment. It's just that I always saw it as a terrible nightmare (in fact I dreamt about UnCat last week and I was convinced that the last episode of the season had already aired!), Cat has become a twisted monster. She's become Darth Vader. It's shocking in a bad way.

And it's much more shocking if it's Brienne who encounters her.

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I was thinking the same thing! :) At least she stood apart.

Yeah, I have no hope for any of this really, but it would be nice to see.

Still was the same shoot. I can see LS accusing her while holding her Vanity Fair.

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Still was the same shoot. I can see LS accusing her while holding her Vanity Fair.

That's so funny! I am always going to picture that now!

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That's so funny! I am always going to picture that now!

^She don't speak, you bastards cut her throat too deep for that...but she remembers...photoshoots.

Lem: What, do you think because we're outcasts we don't have magazine subscriptions?

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I'm confused about how it would work if the LS reveal is done through Brienne, and perhaps someone could explain how it would work. If they keep it the same as the epilogue, they can have the Frey being hanged, show Lady Stoneheart, great shocking twist, great ending, all is clear, all is good, everyone knows her intents, they know what's up. But with Brienne, what people would be getting is "Holy shit, Catelyn is back! and... she wants to kill Brienne? why?" And either they would end it with no explanation of why, making it nothing more than a confusing (what would appear to be) non-sequitur, or instead of ending it showing LS, they show LS, and then follow it up with some clunky exposition of how LS thinks Brienne is siding with the Lannisters and that's why she wants to kill her. And in that case it's still going to seem really weird and pointless and everyone will be thinking "what the hell is even the point of this", because instead of seeing one of the "good guys" come back getting revenge on the Freys, they just see her wanting to kill another one of the good guys, and nothing else. And, again, instead of making the reveal of first actually seeing LS the final image, they'd have to show her, and then explain all this stuff. It really muffles the whole effect that ending the season with that twist is supposed to have.


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Lady Stoneheart appearing to Brienne is a cliffhanger. If you were to do it that way, you would pick up with them again in season 5 where all the details would be hashed out and Brienne given her choice.


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Okay, I can see that. But even still, it seems infinitely less effective. Option A: reveal Lady Stoneheart and the fact that she's getting revenge (in very succinct fashion, by showing said revenge). Or Option B: just show Lady Stoneheart, and nothing else; no indication of what she's become or why she was even brought back or what she wants (since you say that would be given in exposition next season). It leaves people with less to look forward to, and is less dramatic.



I know everyone is really desperate to have Brienne's story trimmed as much as possible, but in this case, it just doesn't seem worth it.


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^Well they could have Brienne brought before her and also witness her killing a Frey. Then have Brienne's horrified reaction to seeing what Cat's become.


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You're getting two events mixed up. The Gravedigger isn't wearing a helmet and is almost certainly Sandor. But Sandor's helmet is stolen and worn by Rorge (and later Lemon cloak). Two different events.

Yeah, I had a feeling I was getting 2 things mixed up even while I was typing that. I just went and refreshed my memory. I remember the gravedigger now. I'm not 100% sure if I picked up on the Sandor connection when I read the novels.

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^She don't speak, you bastards cut her throat too deep for that...but she remembers...photoshoots.

The poor raven who had to deliver that magazine, it's pretty hefty.

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Okay, I can see that. But even still, it seems infinitely less effective. Option A: reveal Lady Stoneheart and the fact that she's getting revenge (in very succinct fashion, by showing said revenge). Or Option B: just show Lady Stoneheart, and nothing else; no indication of what she's become or why she was even brought back or what she wants (since you say that would be given in exposition next season). It leaves people with less to look forward to, and is less dramatic.

I know everyone is really desperate to have Brienne's story trimmed as much as possible, but in this case, it just doesn't seem worth it.

They can show the activities of the Brotherhood before Brienne meets them. Or, as already suggested here, Brienne could see them hanging a Frey. As to why it makes sense for Brienne to be there, such a big revelation would work much better in TV when it's anchored to a character the audience has an association with.

But a lot of this is not so much us arguing why it should happen, we're speculating that it will, based on what we've seen of the structural choices so far. The decision to dispatch Brienne so early, in particular, is a big red flag for me.

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Maybe it's been asked already, but will there be an appearance by Lady Stoneheart possibly through Nymeria's eyes?

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