Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Westeros

HBO Releases First Four Episode Titles

Recommended Posts

If Brienne meets stonehart this season, then what would she be doing during season 5. It's too early for that.

Why does she have to be doing anything? She can disappear and then reappear late season in Jaime's arc. Personally I think the option to lighten the load a bit for season 5 is a godsend, and D+D would be fools not to capitalise on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The inclusion of Rorge and Biter this season would appear to suggest that this may be the altercation Arya and the Hound have later on that ends up wounding Sandor. Unlike the books, neither Rorge or Biter have any connection with Brienne so it would make little sense for them to cross paths with her on her journey. Arya shares far more history with them and it would make sense for them to be dispatched by both her and the Hound.

I originally thought that they would be part of the group that is with Polliver when she regained Needle but in the numerous shots they've put out there for this altercation seem to have Polliver as the only recognizable antagonist.

And you need to have the Hound get incapacitated in some form late in the season so Arya can leave for Braavos so this would seem to be the most logical conclusion. Doubtful it takes place at another Inn though since that would be too repetitive of the Needle scene in E1.

While what you say may well be the case, I don't see to remember Brienne having too much of a connection with Rorge and Biter in the books anyway. They were present at Harrenhal but that was about it. Plus if Brienne is meeting Stoneheart this season they'll need some sort of drama to have Brienne incapacitated and in the hands of the BWB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Le Cygne : Ikr ? She really gets her character and is really fun and enthusiastic ! And I'm hopeful they'll get the scene right and won't romanticize it as I feared.







While what you say may well be the case, I don't see to remember Brienne having too much of a connection with Rorge and Biter in the books anyway. They were present at Harrenhal but that was about it. Plus if Brienne is meeting Stoneheart this season they'll need some sort of drama to have Brienne incapacitated and in the hands of the BWB.




Well they were part of the Bloody Mummers and were the ones constantly threatening and taunting her on their way to Harrenhal. And yes I have no idea how they'll deal with her maiming : I doubt they'll go down that road but she has to have some sort of traumatic experience anyway.



As for her disappearing almost an entire season : that's more or less what happened in the books, so I'd be ok with it, but knowing what they did with Theon in season 3, they might just write a few 'invented' scènes.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, definitely, she had quite a lot to do with them.

AFFC and ADWD is for the most part concurrent, and if that's most of season 5, then Brienne has quite a lot of story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Global timeline, looking at Jaime and Brienne chapters from AFFC & ADWD:

January
Brienne 1
Jaime 1
Brienne 2

February
Brienne 3

Jaime 2

March
Jaime 3
Brienne 4

April
Brienne 5
Jaime 4
Brienne 6

May
Brienne 7
Jaime 5
Jaime 6
Brienne 8
Jaime 7
Jaime 1 - ADWD (Jaime and Brienne stories join)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While what you say may well be the case, I don't see to remember Brienne having too much of a connection with Rorge and Biter in the books anyway. They were present at Harrenhal but that was about it. Plus if Brienne is meeting Stoneheart this season they'll need some sort of drama to have Brienne incapacitated and in the hands of the BWB.

They were part of the Brave Companions and interacted with her (along with Shagwell, Zollo and the crew) when she was captured by them with Jaime. Rorge threatened and attempted to rape Brienne a couple of times but was thwarted by Jaime and then even Vargo when they were back at Harrenhal when she was thrown in the bear pit.

Rorge is probably the Brave Companion who most tormented and insulted Brienne and thus it was more cathartic for her to kill him when he attacked her at the Inn.

"You’re the ugliest woman I’ve ever seen, but don’t think I can’t make you uglier. You want a nose like mine? Fight me, and you’ll get one. And two eyes, that’s too many. One scream out o’ you, and I’ll pop one out and make you eat it, and then I’ll pull your fucking teeth out one by one." - Rorge, before the attempted rape of Bienne is thwarted by Jaime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While what you say may well be the case, I don't see to remember Brienne having too much of a connection with Rorge and Biter in the books anyway. They were present at Harrenhal but that was about it. Plus if Brienne is meeting Stoneheart this season they'll need some sort of drama to have Brienne incapacitated and in the hands of the BWB.

If Brienne does encounter Lady Stoneheart at the end of this season - which I personally think is a good idea - then an economical way to condense the storylines might be to replace Rorge and Biter as her attackers with some Freys. They could potentially be led by Black Walder or Lame Lothar - since those are the Freys who have previously been introduced to viewers - or they could just introduce Merrett if they can't get either of those actors to return. Brienne could call out the Freys for their dishonorable actions (that's putting it mildly) at the Red Wedding and the fight breaks out where Brienne bites off someone's ear. The Brotherhood Without Banners shows up, takes everyone into custody, and hauls them all before Lady Stoneheart, effectively combining our two introductions to that character. The Freys are hanged, and Stoneheart presents Brienne with her choice to deliver Jaime or die along with Pod. Brienne refuses to make the choice, gets strung up, and Season 4 ends with her screaming "Sword!" while looking down at Stoneheart's mutilated, vengeful face. I think that would serve as a suitably effective cliffhanger.

As King Tommen notes, this would free up Rorge and Biter to be the attackers who give the Hound his fateful wound late in the season. Their shared history with Arya would make this confrontation even more potent, and they're pretty much the only recognizable candidates left, since Polliver will die in Episode 1 and the Tickler was killed off back in Season 2.

It may not go down this way. Rorge and Biter could attack Brienne, and the Hound's late-season attackers could just end up being some random brigands or nameless Lannister goons who call him out for deserting during the Battle of the Blackwater. But I'd like to see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I forgot that Rorge was with them when they got captured. I stand corrected.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having Brienne's entire journey this season is just a good way to avoid having too many storylines for season 5.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think losing Dick Crabb, Shagwell,Pyg and Timeon (who never existed in previous seasons of the show anyways), Septon Meribald etc is that big of a deal but a couple things that you would lose out on if Brienne got through all of her travels this season are Randyll Tarly (who was not cast for S4) and the subtle revelation that the Hound is possibly still alive and keeping it on the down low on the Quiet Isle.



Randyll Tarly would appear to be a character that will be introduced on the show at some point if only because of his relationship to Sam. The show even had Sam namecheck him last season which they don't usually do unless they plan on introducing the character at some point down the road. Of course, there are a number of ways to bring him into the show later on without Brienne running into him so I guess it's not that big of a deal.



The assumption would be that the Hound is left for dead by Arya right at (or near to) the end of this season which wouldn't align with Brienne ever coming across him in his new life if she's going to get captured by the BwB by the end of this season. They'd have to go about continuing with the Hound's story in another way.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My problem with Brienne meeting with Lady Stoneheart this season, is that it doesn't give the audience a chance to root for Lady Stoneheart first. Readers were excited about Lady Stoneheart, and her revenge campaign against the Freys, but when Brienne meets with her, we realize how lost and different she is. Give the viewers a chance to be excited about her, before they're disappointed in her.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They could potentially be led by Black Walder or Lame Lothar - since those are the Freys who have previously been introduced to viewers

"Introduced" is being a bit charitable. I don't believe either was given a name, and I doubt most of the audience would notice the difference between them and some other Frey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they're going to end the season like ASOS ends they will have to find ways to reinforce the Frey presence throughout the season and remind the viewers about the BWB. I guess they could do it through their Arya POV, but they may have to do it through their Brienne storyline. I still hope its a Frey that they kill to end the season and that we get that excellent, creepy "She don't speak but she remembers." That line gives me chills every time and hearing it said by any of their BWB actors (maybe Anguy?) would be great.



If they can find a climactic way to end Brienne's S4 story and a practical way to set up the Frey's and the BWB before ep. 410 then I hope they do it like the books. If they can't though, they could have Brienne witness a Frey hanging somehow. I'm sure they'll have come up with something pretty cool.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My problem with Brienne meeting with Lady Stoneheart this season, is that it doesn't give the audience a chance to root for Lady Stoneheart first. Readers were excited about Lady Stoneheart, and her revenge campaign against the Freys, but when Brienne meets with her, we realize how lost and different she is. Give the viewers a chance to be excited about her, before they're disappointed in her.

:agree: It's a great cliffhanger because viewers will look forward to Stoneheart getting vengeance on the Freys. And a big theme they're going for this season is justice for the Starks. We need a bit of hope before we realize what Cat has become in season 5.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the season ends with the reveal that Catelyn Stark is back and getting hardcore revenge for the Red Wedding, it's more likely that TV viewers will love it. Everyone wants to see the Starks win, and everyone wants to see revenge for the RW. It's a shocking and dramatic reveal, it's cathartic (which is certainly well-earned in a series as bleak as this), and it leaves people to ponder what she'll do next. It does everything a good finale closer should do, and as has already been mentioned, including Lady Stoneheart in particular is essential to Jaime and Brienne's stories.

Leaving her out would accomplish nothing (from any perspective), and only serve to create more problems down the line that they'd have to deal with, none of which would be necessary.

I don't think it's guaranteed that TV viewers will love it. She's been a controversial character with book readers (See this thread: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/102321-why-do-you-hate-lady-stoneheart/) and she'll be just as controversial with tv viewers. As to the second bolded, D&D have made changes in the past that don't accomplish anything in terms of advancing the story, so it's not unprecedented. However, if they did cut her I know it would cause a huge protest from most of the book readers. It just interesting to debate the merits of the character since she is so controversial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

cutting LS out of the story would be a huge loss in my opinion. She adds an entirely different dynamic to the story (tragic and horror like)- the vengeful zombie, who was once a respectable character. Her existence keeps in mind the brutality of the Red Wedding and promises revenge (which most viewers are craving).


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brienne starts her hunt for Sansa very early. How far will she get with Joe Dempsie not appearing this year?

I missed that bit of intel. Where did we hear that Dempsie's not gonna be appearing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×