Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Westeros

HBO Releases First Four Episode Titles

Recommended Posts

I don't think it's guaranteed that TV viewers will love it. She's been a controversial character with book readers (See this thread: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/102321-why-do-you-hate-lady-stoneheart/) and she'll be just as controversial with tv viewers. As to the second bolded, D&D have made changes in the past that don't accomplish anything in terms of advancing the story, so it's not unprecedented. However, if they did cut her I know it would cause a huge protest from most of the book readers. It just interesting to debate the merits of the character since she is so controversial.

Ultimately, it's a choice between Starks getting revenge for the Red Wedding, or Starks getting no revenge for the Red Wedding. Now, in my opinion, I feel like a lot of people will be in favor of Starks getting revenge. If there are people out there saying "you know what, I'd really rather that the Freys get away with it", then please, direct me to them. But I suspect their numbers will be small.

Lady Stoneheart hanging a Frey is a bad-ass and cathartic moment. And they've already been introduced to the concept of resurrection in the form of Beric Dondarrion, so I don't see what it is most TV viewers would find to get upset about. Not to mention, if they keep her out, then there was literally no point to Beric's resurrection in the first place, and they could've just left that out. Why bring up something so massive, if they intend to never bring it up again?

(And yes, a lot of book-readers have complained about LS, but we're a prickly lot and prone to bitch about pretty much anything)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regardless of my own feelings of LS, I think it would be ridiculous to cut her out. It was such a what the fuck moment for me when I read it. That as a season-ender would blow a lot of people's minds. I don't see the value in not having her.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grenn and Ed haven't gotten back to Castle Black yet and their fate in S3E4 was left dubious. My theory is that Grenn, Ed and some other loyal brothers are being held captive and will be rescued by Jon. Grenn fighting with them in the trailer seems irrelevant to me. He could have been freed prior to that shot.

......Huh? Did you not see Grenn in the trailer with Jon? That's clearly him...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can dislike the character Lady Stoneheart and still want the Starks to have revenge.

No one implied that those were mutually exclusive. LS is just a very organized and obvious and quick way for the Starks to do it. I think most viewers want Frey bloodshed. LS provides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't know if anyone's mentioned this because I'm not going to go read every post in the thread, but it's weird that it says "Joffrey and Margaery host a breakfast", instead of a wedding. It's not like it's a secret that they're betrothed so saying wedding wouldn't spoil anything for anyone.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^This. One hundred percent. Lady Stoneheart will be important. If George wanted to kill her off for good he would have done it like he so often does. He didn't. He didn't do it to deaden the blow of the RW, it wasn't a cop-out; he did it to give Westeros (and the readers) even more pain. Whatever's brewing with her and the BWB it won't be pretty and I doubt it will be crowd pleasing either. One of the things that Cat understood was that revenge just begets endless cycles of violence that eventually consume everyone. She doesn't understand that anymore.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If George wanted to kill her off for good he would have done it like he so often does.

Really? It seems to me that George has a (bad) habit of bringin back "dead" characters (Cat, Gregor, Sandor...), so much that virtually everyone knows now that Jon will be brought back to life somehow.

Anyway, about LS, my interpretation of the character is totally different: her return is not a positive thing. When I first read it I never rooted for her at all. She's become a monster, a mindless zombie (or that's what I thought, anyway). It's a terrifying moment, not a "the good guys are back" moment.

IMO, the best way to introduce her is with Brienne, not with some random Freys. Considering that Brienne will be sent off from Kl in episode 4, she can end the season with LS.

Another detail that I noticed: Yara is not a main character, which means she won't have her own storyline. That seems to rule out a storyline about trying to recue Theon and failing -it seems more obvious that she will be part of Stannis' storyline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Jon's fate is ambiguous (I do dislike George's cliffhangers, just not the two resurrections we've had). Sandor, if he lives, never died. LSH and Robert Strong are poised to have quite a bit of importance to the narrative, so let's not act like their coming back was a mistake just yet. We've yet to see the role they'll play, but its likely that both of them will be of some import.



And it's not as though he did it on a whim because he regretted killing them. Robert Strong was hinted at in Bran's dream in AGOT, so his return must have been at the very least premeditated. As for LSH, given that he wrote the RW after the rest of ASOS, that means he wrote the epilogue before and knew that she'd return before he officially "did the deed" himself. That to me indicates that his resurrections aren't just sloppiness on his part or representative of some newfound reticence in him to rid himself of characters, but are in fact very intentional and are building toward big things in their respective storylines.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

......Huh? Did you not see Grenn in the trailer with Jon? That's clearly him...

What part of the trailer? I only remember seeing him fighting in the ice tunnel (was that during the foreshadowing), which of course would happen after my proposed scenario.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the season ends with the reveal that Catelyn Stark is back and getting hardcore revenge for the Red Wedding, it's more likely that TV viewers will love it. Everyone wants to see the Starks win, and everyone wants to see revenge for the RW. It's a shocking and dramatic reveal, it's cathartic (which is certainly well-earned in a series as bleak as this), and it leaves people to ponder what she'll do next. It does everything a good finale closer should do, and as has already been mentioned, including Lady Stoneheart in particular is essential to Jaime and Brienne's stories.

Leaving her out would accomplish nothing (from any perspective), and only serve to create more problems down the line that they'd have to deal with, none of which would be necessary.

Agreed on all points.

Breaker of Chains): Jon proposes a scouting party to help him deal with the mutineers (they might tell Mance everything he needs to know about the Wall's defenses -- and for justice.).

Hadn't even thought of that (deserters as possible security leaks). Guess now there's one more reason for Jon to go to Craster's Keep.

I thought a cute cameo role by having him help or lead the reforging of Ice. Keeps him in the show and you know, the audience can smile to themselves as Tywin misses another fugitive hiding under his nose. It would make sense from a producer's perspective.

That would be nice, but I doubt it's going to happen. Gendry supposedly looks almost exactly like young Robert and Tywin was there when Robert was young and strong. He would know something is wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't know if anyone's mentioned this because I'm not going to go read every post in the thread, but it's weird that it says "Joffrey and Margaery host a breakfast", instead of a wedding. It's not like it's a secret that they're betrothed so saying wedding wouldn't spoil anything for anyone.

Weddings are bad omens these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really? It seems to me that George has a (bad) habit of bringin back "dead" characters (Cat, Gregor, Sandor...), so much that virtually everyone knows now that Jon will be brought back to life somehow.

Not to mention Mance and the glamour. My personal least favorite event in the series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What part of the trailer? I only remember seeing him fighting in the ice tunnel (was that during the foreshadowing), which of course would happen after my proposed scenario.

When Jon and the NW rush out of the forest up to Craster's to fight the mutineers, you can see Grenn as one of the NW guys running behind Jon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That would be nice, but I doubt it's going to happen. Gendry supposedly looks almost exactly like young Robert and Tywin was there when Robert was young and strong. He would know something is wrong.

As I said to someone else though, does Tywin even know that Robert's bastards are being hunted? Moreover most believe that the bastard travelling to the Night's Watch was killed by Polliver, nobody is looking for him anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Jon and the NW rush out of the forest up to Craster's to fight the mutineers, you can see Grenn as one of the NW guys running behind Jon.

So he could have been rescued before that shot and be taking part in the final fight at Crasters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said to someone else though, does Tywin even know that Robert's bastards are being hunted? Moreover most believe that the bastard travelling to the Night's Watch was killed by Polliver, nobody is looking for him anymore.

Even if he does know, it's probably not exactly high on his to-do list to help hunt them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×