4 Letters of ADwD

[Mithras]

Before we start, it is useful to recall two bits of information:

“There was a time when each new man wrote his name in his own blood, but as it happens, blood makes piss-poor ink.”

Some lords trusted their maesters to read their letters and convey the contents, but Stannis insisted on breaking the seals himself.

Blood does not make a good ink to write and Stannis breaks the seals and reads his own letters.

Letter 1) From Ramsay (Barrowton) to Asha (Deepwood)

My lady.” The maester’s voice was anxious, as it always was when he spoke to her. “A bird from Barrowton.” He thrust the parchment at her as if he could not wait to be rid of it. It was tightly rolled and sealed with a button of hard pink wax.

Barrowton. Asha tried to recall who ruled in Barrowton. Some northern lord, no friend of mine. And that seal … the Boltons of the Dreadfort went into battle beneath pink banners spattered with little drops of blood. It only stood to reason that they would use pink sealing wax as well.

This is poison that I hold, she thought. I ought to burn it. Instead she cracked the seal. A scrap of leather fluttered down into her lap. When she read the dry brown words, her black mood grew blacker still. Dark wings, dark words. The ravens never brought glad tidings. The last message sent to Deepwood had been from Stannis Baratheon, demanding homage. This was worse. “The northmen have taken Moat Cailin.”

“The Bastard of Bolton?” asked Qarl, beside her.

“Ramsay Bolton, Lord of Winterfell, he signs himself. But there are other names as well.” Lady Dustin, Lady Cerwyn, and four Ryswells had appended their own signatures beneath his. Beside them was drawn a crude giant, the mark of some Umber.

Those were done in maester’s ink, made of soot and coal tar, but the message above was scrawled in brown in a huge, spiky hand. It spoke of the fall of Moat Cailin, of the triumphant return of the Warden of the North to his domains, of a marriage soon to be made. The first words were, “I write this letter in the blood of ironmen,” the last, “I send you each a piece of prince. Linger in my lands, and share his fate.”

Observations:

1. The message is written by Ramsay in the blood of ironmen. It appears brown.
   
2. The signs are done in ink.
   
3. The seal is not mentioned. Only the wax is said to be pink. Boltons go to war with their flayed man on their banners. Asha talks of a pink banner with drops of blood. I think she is wrong. Still, no mention of a flayed man on the seal.
   
4. The letter is sealed with a button of hard pink wax.
   
5. Ramsay signs as Ramsay Bolton, Lord of Winterfell though he is not married to fArya yet.
   
6. Ramsay’s handwriting is huge and spiky. That is because he lacks the normal education given to the highborn kids by the maesters. Note that he also lacked formal training by a master-at-arms. Roose said he fights like a butcher.
   
7. The letter gives the news of Moat Cailin taken by Boltons, the return of Roose to his domains and the marriage of Ramsay with fArya at Barrowton. Note that Asha does not give the name of the girl. She just says a marriage. So it may be possible that the details of the marriage (the bride) are not written in the letter.
   
8. At the time being, Deepwood is held by Asha and the marriage will take place in Barrowton.
   
9. The purpose of the letter is clearly to freak out Asha and make them run. Boltons will surely take Deepwood from ironborn but they prefer taking it without any fight as they did in Moat Cailin.
   
10. There is some skin attached to the letter.
    
11. Asha does not send an answer but allows the maester to take the letter to Sybelle Glover.
    

Letter 2) From Ramsay (Barrowton) to Jon (Castle Black)

Clydas thrust the parchment forward. It was tightly rolled and sealed, with a button of hard pink wax. Only the Dreadfort uses pink sealing wax. Jon ripped off his gauntlet, took the letter, cracked the seal. When he saw the signature, he forgot the battering Rattleshirt had given him.

Ramsay Bolton, Lord of the Hornwood, it read, in a huge, spiky hand. The brown ink came away in flakes when Jon brushed it with his thumb. Beneath Bolton’s signature, Lord Dustin, Lady Cerwyn, and four Ryswells had appended their own marks and seals. A cruder hand had drawn the giant of House Umber. “Might we know what it says, my lord?” asked Iron Emmett.

Jon saw no reason not to tell him. “Moat Cailin is taken. The flayed corpses of the ironmen have been nailed to posts along the kingsroad. Roose Bolton summons all leal lords to Barrowton, to affirm their loyalty to the Iron Throne and celebrate his son’s wedding to …” His heart seemed to stop for a moment. No, that is not possible. She died in King’s Landing, with Father.

“Lord Snow?” Clydas peered at him closely with his dim pink eyes. “Are you … unwell? You seem …”

“He’s to marry Arya Stark. My little sister.”

Observations:

1. The message is written by Ramsay in the blood of ironmen. It appears brown. Note that Jon does not recognize the blood and thinks that it is a brown ink. The brown ink comes away in flakes because blood is not fit for writing on paper.
   
2. Just like Stannis, Jon likes to break the seals of his letters.
   
3. The signs are done in normal ink. The people who sign this letter are exactly the same as the previous letter.
   
4. The only difference in the signs is that Ramsay signs as Ramsay Bolton, Lord of the Hornwood.
   
5. The seal is not mentioned again. Only the wax is said to be pink. Still, no mention of a flayed man on the seal. Jon thinks that only Boltons use pink sealing wax, so is it possible that Boltons do not need to stamp their sigil on the seals (flayed man)?
   
6. The letter is again sealed with a button of hard pink wax.
   
7. This message is again Ramsay’s handwriting because it is described in the exact same manner, i.e. huge and spiky.
   
8. The letter gives the news of Moat Cailin taken by Boltons, return of Roose to his domains and marriage of Ramsay with fArya at Barrowton. Note that fArya Stark is specifically mentioned in the letter in order to distinguish her from Sansa Stark.
   
9. There is no skin attached to the letter. But it is mentioned that the ironborn are flayed and nailed to posts.
   
10. It is basically the same letter with the one sent to Asha. There is one fundamental difference though. The letter sent to Asha is threatening and contains flayed skin. The letter sent to Jon (and other northern lords) is more diplomatic, no skin is attached.
    
11. Roose requires the obedience and presence of all his leal lords.
    
12. It is unlikely that they summon Jon to Barrowton for the wedding. But sending this letter is a way to show their power. They want to show their presence to Jon and the NW.
    
13. Jon does not send a reply, which is a bad choice in terms of diplomacy.
    

Letter 3) From Stannis (Deepwood) to Jon (Castle Black)

Clydas had come and gone, Jon noted as he was hanging his cloak on the peg beside the door. A letter had been left on the table in his solar. Eastwatch or the Shadow Tower, he assumed at first glance. But the wax was gold, not black. The seal showed a stag’s head within a flaming heart. Stannis. Jon cracked the hardened wax, flattened the roll of parchment, read. A maester’s hand, but the king’s words.

Stannis had taken Deepwood Motte, and the mountain clans had joined him. Flint, Norrey, Wull, Liddle, all.

And we had other help, unexpected but most welcome, from a daughter of Bear Island. Alysane Mormont, whose men name her the She-Bear, hid fighters inside a gaggle of fishing sloops and took the ironmen unawares where they lay off the strand. Greyjoy’s longships are burned or taken, her crews slain or surrendered. The captains, knights, notable warriors, and others of high birth we shall ransom or make other use of, the rest I mean to hang …

The Night’s Watch was sworn to take no side in the quarrels and conflicts of the realm. Nonetheless, Jon Snow could not help but feel a certain satisfaction. He read on.

… more northmen coming in as word spreads of our victory. Fisherfolk, freeriders, hillmen, crofters from the deep of the wolfswood and villagers who fled their homes along the stony shore to escape the ironmen, survivors from the battle outside the gates of Winterfell, men once sworn to the Hornwoods, the Cerwyns, and the Tallharts. We are five thousand strong as I write, our numbers swelling every day. And word has come to us that Roose Bolton moves toward Winterfell with all his power, there to wed his bastard to your half sister. He must not be allowed to restore the castle to its former strength. We march against him. Arnolf Karstark and Mors Umber will join us. I will save your sister if I can, and find a better match for her than Ramsay Snow. You and your brothers must hold the Wall until I can return.

It was signed, in a different hand,

Done in the Light of Lord, under the sign and seal of Stannis of House Baratheon, the First of His Name, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm.

Observations:

1. The message is written by the master at Deepwood Motte and signed by Stannis himself. The difference between the maester’s hand and Stannis’ hand is mentioned two times.
   
2. It is certain that Sybelle Glover gave Stannis the letter sent to Asha (Letter 1) by Ramsay. So, Stannis has some hard pink wax. He knows the handwriting of Ramsay. He knows that Ramsay uses blood, flayed skin and a ferocious manner of speech when he wants to be threatening.
   
3. It is unknown how Stannis get the word of Roose marching to Winterfell for the wedding.
   
4. It is also unknown how Wyman was able to assume that he would have to go to Winterfell for the wedding while speaking to Davos. That was many months ago and as Letter 1 suggested, Roose declared the Northern Lords that the wedding would be at Barrowton. After Stannis took Deepwood, Roose decided to make the wedding at Winterfell.
   
5. Stannis specifically commands Jon to stay and hold the Wall until his return. He assumes that Tormund will eventually come and probably attack. Also he knows the danger of the Others.
   
6. It is clear that Stannis means to put an end to the Boltons and restore the North. Then he can return to the Wall to fight the wildlings and Others should they attack.
   
7. Note that Stannis is gaining more northmen every day. Arnolf Karstark and Mors Umber will join him at Winterfell.
   

Letter 4) to Jon (Castle Black)

Bastard, was the only word written outside the scroll. No Lord Snow or Jon Snow or Lord Commander. Simply Bastard. And the letter was sealed with a smear of hard pink wax. “You were right to come at once,” Jon said. You were right to be afraid. He cracked the seal, flattened the parchment, and read.

Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.

Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.

I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard’s heart and eat it.

It was signed,

Ramsay Bolton,

Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

Observations:

1. This letter is sick.
   
2. GRRM is obviously hiding the handwriting or the type of ink (or blood) because that spoils his entire cliffhanger. This problem can be justified by the fact that Jon was highly distraught because of the contents of this letter, so he was not paying attention.
   
3. This time, the letter is sealed with a smear of hard pink wax. This means less pink wax was used to seal the letter.
   
4. In the first paragraph, we see the death of Stannis, defeat of his entire host and Ramsay claiming his magic sword. This makes sense but why do we find Tell his red whore in this paragraph? It has nothing to do with this news. It does not make sense at all. This point has to be clarified.
   
5. The second paragraph starts with the death of false king’s friends. Who are they? The most likely explanation is that they are Mors Umber and Arnolf Karstark (no need to spoil the Karstark treachery to Jon). Why it is mentioned that their heads upon the walls but there is no mention of the head of Stannis or his host among them? This points needs a good explanation as well. And there is the taunt Come seem them, bastard about these friends of Stannis.
   
6. Your false king lied and so did you. What is the lie of Stannis this letter talks about? Obviously burning of Mance. At that time, Jon had no knowledge of such a scheme (the author need not know that) but after Jon learned the truth and sent Mance to rescue fArya, he participated in this lie too.
   
7. The author knows the rescue fArya mission. And the author confesses that this mission is accomplished, i.e. fArya successfully escaped. However, the author claims that 6 spearwives were flayed and Mance is kept in a cage. So who is leading fArya? These strange statements look like the author wants Jon to realize something is wrong about this point.
   
8. There is the second taunt for Jon to come to Winterfell in the third paragraph.
   
9. The last paragraph contains the demands. Val and the princess suggests that the situation at the CB should be known by the author. Selyse and Shireen came to CB much later than Stannis and Mance left the Wall. The text is not clear whether the author knows that they are at the CB too. Nevertheless, it can be assumed that they are being kept at the Wall by the NW, so demanding them from the LC may not be a big surprise.
   
10. This is the only place Reek is mentioned. Normally Jon should have no idea what Reek is. It seems like the author assumes that Reek and fArya made it to the CB.
    
11. The letter is signed as Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell. Ramsay always used Bolton surname in his letters in ADwD. He used the title Lord of Winterfell to Asha and Lord of Hornwood to Jon. Now it seems that he assumes to be the Lord of Winterfell and he uses trueborn as a final taunt.
    

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I think it's a good idea to look at these letters side by side. Regarding the first two letters, I'd like to point out two differences that you missed. There is no specific mention of two types of ink in Jon's letter, Jon's POV only mentions the brown ink and then notes the other signatures beneath Ramsay's. Possibly of greater significance is the fact that Asha's letter is signed by Lady Dustin, while Jon's is signed by Lord Dustin, who does not exist. Curiously, the two letters seem to be tailored to their recipients-- Asha's mentions blood of ironborn and has a piece of Theon's skin, it is implied that Dagmer Cleftjaw received a similar letter at Torrhen's Square. In Jon's letter Ramsay calls himself "Lord of the Hornwood" rather than the more inflammatory "Lord of Winterfell" and summons leal lords to Barrowton for the wedding of Arya and Ramsay, implying that Jon himself is being summoned.

Now Jon absolutely should have known that there was no Lord Dustin, so I'm not entirely sure what to make of this. I'm interested to see what others think, and if the addition of comparisons to the PL in particular yields any ideas.

[Twatbeards conspiracy]

So are u saying that the letter came from Ramsay or not? Sry but I'm alittle thrown by your conclusion.

[Mithras]

I think it's a good idea to look at these letters side by side. Regarding the first two letters, I'd like to point out two differences that you missed. There is no specific mention of two types of ink in Jon's letter, Jon's POV only mentions the brown ink and then notes the other signatures beneath Ramsay's.

This is a very good observation. However, I don't think the other lords would sign the letter with blood. Certainly Lady Dustin would not approve this Ramsayish thing. But the fact that the writings come in flakes easily (blood makes a piss poor ink) and being the same brown in Asha's letter instead of standart coal black, it can be assumed that Ramsay used blood but not mentioned it to Jon. That is normal because he was not trying to be threatening to him.

Now Jon absolutely should have known that there was no Lord Dustin, so I'm not entirely sure what to make of this. I'm interested to see what others think, and if the addition of comparisons to the PL in particular yields any ideas.

That is very interesting too. And I think this is one of those typos which have evaded the editor's eyes. Below is another one.

Jon took careful note of who was there and who was not. Some men had the duty; many just off watch were fast asleep. But others had chosen to absent themselves to show their disapproval. Othell Yarwyck and Bowen Marsh were amongst the missing. Septon Chayle had emerged briefly from the sept, fingering the seven-sided crystal on the thong about his neck, only to retreat inside again once the prayers began.

Septon Chayle is certainly dead. It should be Septon Cellador.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

This is a very good observation. However, I don't think the other lords would sign the letter with blood. Certainly Lady Dustin would not approve this Ramsayish thing. But the fact that the writings come in flakes easily (blood makes a piss poor ink) and being the same brown in Asha's letter instead of standart coal black, it can be assumed that Ramsay used blood but not mentioned it to Jon. That is normal because he was not trying to be threatening to him.

That is very interesting too. And I think this is one of those typos which have evaded the editor's eyes. Below is another one.

Jon took careful note of who was there and who was not. Some men had the duty; many just off watch were fast asleep. But others had chosen to absent themselves to show their disapproval. Othell Yarwyck and Bowen Marsh were amongst the missing. Septon Chayle had emerged briefly from the sept, fingering the seven-sided crystal on the thong about his neck, only to retreat inside again once the prayers began.

Septon Chayle is certainly dead. It should be Septon Cellador.

That's what I thought as well, except that the Chayle/Cellador mistake is a one off scene. The letters are described with such arresting similarity that GRRM almost had to have been comparing the two passages as he wrote. So how or why miss that glaring detail?

And I wasn't suggesting that the other lords signed in blood, as much as wondering if they really signed at all.

[Mithras]

I think GRRM did not give important details of the letters to save his cliffhangers. Such details can pinpoint the facts and this destroys the climax. Therefore, the facts within these letters are equally important as the missing facts (not ready to be revealed by GRRM yet). That means GRRM wants us to suspect that things may not be like what they seems to be.

For example, GRRM could have mentioned the huge, spiky handwriting of Ramsay in the Pink Letter and we would consider every other candidate for the authorship of this letter as crackpot. However this is missing and we should rightly speculate about it.

[JLE]

The first letter from the Boltons to the wall - the one couched in diplomatic language. It belongs to the FIRST half of ADwD, which is set NOT *after AFfC, but concurrently to it. So it is, in fact, only shortly after the events of ASoS.

Written in Ramsay's hand: Roose is not back in the North yet. Is it possible that Ramsay has not yet learned who is the new Lord Commander of the Watch, and written it to "The Lord Commander" - as in "To whom it may concern"? Ramsay may not have thought to learn - or care - who is the new Lord Commander, or even that there is a new Lord Commander: he might believe he is still writing to Jeor Mormont. He may not even know that Stannis has come to the Wall yet: certainly Stannis has not yet left it, since Deepwood Motte is still under the ironborn.

By the time of the second letter, of course, he knows perfectly well who is now in charge of the Watch, and that Stannis is in the vicinity.

I do not believe either Stannis or Asha could have written the letter. The real identity of Mance Rayder was not even known to Theon or Jeyne/"Arya" during the rescue, and Stannis could not have discovered it without taking Winterfell, at which point Roose and Ramsay would be either dead or fled: there would be no motive for Stannis to fake his own death *after* taking Winterfell. Stannis also knows Theon for Theon - Asha identifies him as this - and would not have referred to him as Reek. Also, he would almost certainly have referred to Ramsay's bride as "your sister" just in the hope of getting a bigger reaction out of Jon, assuming he wants Jon to march south at all (and I see no reason for him to wish this.)

So, the letter was truly written from inside Winterfell. The Boltons may have learned Mance's identity under torture, or Mance may have written it himself: nobody else knows that the man at Winterfell is anybody other than Abel the Bard, or even has reason to care.

However, it can't entirely be true. Battles do not, generally, last seven days. Also, given that "Reek" and "my bride" have escaped, and that the snow has closed in and made travel difficult, they could not possibly have got to the Wall anyway, not even having horses or ponies (so Jon cannot have them, and the writer ought to know this): the only possible place they could have gone for shelter from the weather, and not been immediately recaptured by pursuers from Winterfell on horseback, is Stannis's army. And if Stannis were to be defeated, Theon and Jeyne would be either recaptured or dead - both would prefer to die by their own hand than fall back into the hands of the Boltons.

Another thing that's wrong about it: Given that Roose is presumably alive and present, *he* rather than Ramsay should be conducting any diplomacy with Jon Snow - especially if he had won the battle (and I would guess it can be safely said that if Stannis were defeated in battle, Roose is capable of it but Ramsay is not: ergo, if Stannis is already defeated, Ramsay is taking credit for Roose's deeds rather than his own.)

So if Ramsay sent the letter, it is without his father's knowledge or consent. This leaves a number of possibilities that I can think of:

- Ramsay didn't write the letter at all. Nor did Roose, who would have couched it in terms of icy politeness. This only leaves Mance Rayder, whose reasons for stealing Bolton paper and sealing wax are as yet unknown (not to mention, any reason for bringing Jon to Winterfell.)

- Stannis and Roose are BOTH dead - Roose possibly murdered by his son after Roose defeated Stannis (or after Stannis faked a retreat that the Boltons took for a real rout), and hoping to take advantage of his father's victory.

- Roose is dead (possibly at Ramsay's hand - I wouldn't put it past him), Ramsay has been beaten back to Winterfell but Stannis cannot as yet break in, but Ramsay is being deserted by his followers and beginning to panic.

- The battle hasn't happened yet, Ramsay has completely lost his temper and his cool and sent a letter without his father's knowledge.

- A battle of sorts has happened outside the walls, Stannis has faked a retreat and provided false reports of his own death (and the head of someone who resembles him closely enough to fool Roose and Ramsay - and possibly the heads of the two Karstarks, with reports that the Karstarks played a double treachery instead of a single one and came into the battle on Stannis's side, so they could be "your false king's friends"), and Ramsay believes it real. Either way, he is writing it without his father's consent or knowledge, either behind Roose's back or after murdering Roose.

- A final report: Ramsay (assuming it is he) NOT referring to "my bride" as "your sister": He knows, and Roose knows, that it is not the real Arya. It is possible that other North lords know (especially anyone who might recognise Jeyne Poole herself.) He knows that she has no actual real connection to Jon (and, indeed, that if she reaches the Wall, Jon will know the difference but will keep her anyway.) Stannis and Mance, however, do NOT know that Jeyne is not the real Arya Stark: both of them, believing that it was the real Arya, would have referred to her as "your sister" to try and get a bigger reaction out of Jon, possibly fearing that he would stay at his post otherwise.

That's why I think the Pink Letter really WAS written by Ramsay, but that he is not in fact correct about having defeated Stannis in battle (even if he believes he is.) Stannis managing to fake reports of his own death as a way of getting his supporters into Winterfell and taking it from the inside, strikes me as the most likely argument: and even then, Ramsay sending the letter instead of Roose may suggest that he has taken control from Roose somehow, either Roose has returned to the Dreadfort or Ramsay has done away with him (possibly with making reports that Roose has indeed left to return to the Dreadfort.)

There may be other possibilities too.

[Sylva Santagar]

I keep thinking about the Lord/Lady Dustin thing... what are we to make of this?? Ok, it could be a typo... but what if it is not... could this have any meaning?? Stuff like that makes me crazy.....

[Mithras]

I there is a very important question here.

Why did GRRM not want to tell us the handwriting and the ink material (blood?) in the Pink Letter? If Ramsay wrote it, GRRM could just tell us the brown letters (written in blood) and his huge, spiky handwriting. GRRM surely designed this letter as a cliffhanger, so it is understandable that he wants to avoid giving exact proofs about the authorship of the letter. However, this point brings us to a serious problem:

If Ramsay really wrote the letter (as GRRM put it plainly in the text), then hiding the facts I presented above is not a good writing. Saving this information just to reveal in the next book is a cheap trick to keep the readers occupied. I don't think this is GRRM's way of writing in any case.

This brings us to the assumption that Ramsay most probably is not the author of the letter Jon read. Therefore, GRRM wants us to think about this letter. In this case, he should have given us enough clues to figure it out, or make a good guess for the time being.

If Ramsay didn’t write it, then a point should be justified. Jon previously saw a letter by Ramsay, he noted his handwriting, and he noted the brown letters although he was not aware that it was written in blood. He was plainly shocked by the news of fArya and Ramsay marriage.

Jon saw no reason not to tell him. “Moat Cailin is taken. The flayed corpses of the ironmen have been nailed to posts along the kingsroad. Roose Bolton summons all leal lords to Barrowton, to affirm their loyalty to the Iron Throne and celebrate his son’s wedding to …” His heart seemed to stop for a moment. No, that is not possible. She died in King’s Landing, with Father.

“Lord Snow?” Clydas peered at him closely with his dim pink eyes. “Are you … unwell? You seem …”

Jon received the Pink Letter from a terrified Clydas and the letter had a giant BASTARD on it. So Jon was already shocked before reading the contents.

Mully had not been wrong; the old steward was trembling, his face as pale as the snows outside. “I am being foolish, Lord Commander, but … this letter frightens me. See here?”

Bastard, was the only word written outside the scroll. No Lord Snow or Jon Snow or Lord Commander. Simply Bastard. And the letter was sealed with a smear of hard pink wax. “You were right to come at once,” Jon said. You were right to be afraid. He cracked the seal, flattened the parchment, and read.

…

“Snow?” said Tormund Giantsbane. “You look like your father’s bloody head just rolled out o’ that paper.”

I think GRRM kept these sentences to justify why Jon paid no attention to the handwriting and the inks.

In short, such reasoning dictates that Ramsay is not the author of the letter given to the Jon.

[-Ghost-]

The missing mention of spiky hand writing was the first thing I noticed about the pink letter. That would be one of the first things that Jon notices when reading the letter. I dont think Ramsay wrote it either.

[Shebara]

pretty good idea to show all the 4 letters one against the other here...but...I must admit I still have no idea about the mysterious pink letter :frown5:

Just asking myself who is interested to lure Jon out of CB direction Winterfell as it is the purpose of that letter....

[horizon]

pretty good idea to show all the 4 letters one against the other here...but...I must admit I still have no idea about the mysterious pink letter :frown5:

Just asking myself who is interested to lure Jon out of CB direction Winterfell as it is the purpose of that letter....

With Jon gone, the NW would have no immediate leader. That would mean the wild folks could easily overrun The Wall and all castles along it, then take Stannis' queen, daughter and witch as hostages.

Then again... what difference would the presence of Jon make in that scenario? Nothing.

[Ghost's Shadow]

The Free folk wouldn't have attacked the NW as they were riding out with him. They'd only attack if the NW was stupid enough to stab him in their presence, which they did.

There's a possibility the letter is written by Mance to lure Jon to WF because he heard of the GNC and Robb's will. Jon can do more for the Watch and North if he is given a crown. No need to be afraid of a few of Stannis' people (the ones around WF are dying of cold and battle and there's only a few at the Wall) when the North would side with you over Stannis.

[Snowisnobastard]

I think one of the most important details you bring up is the "smear" of pink wax on Jon's letter.

A smear may suggest a couple things: the pink letter may have been written and sealed very hastily (hence the smear) for whatever reasons. The author of the letter may have only had a bit of hardened wax that sealed one of the other letters to melt and use to seal the pink letter with (which would suggest that it was not a Bolton). Or there may be another reason that is currently evading me.

[Mithras]

I think one of the most important details you bring up is the "smear" of pink wax on Jon's letter.

A smear may suggest a couple things: the pink letter may have been written and sealed very hastily (hence the smear) for whatever reasons. The author of the letter may have only had a bit of hardened wax that sealed one of the other letters to melt and use to seal the pink letter with (which would suggest that it was not a Bolton). Or there may be another reason that is currently evading me.

Well that is what I think as well. Stannis can recover a small amount of pink wax from the letter sent to Asha by Ramsay. Then use it to send the Pink Letter.

[TheCrannogDweller]

What if the letter was penned down by the new Maester of Winterfell, whoever he is? And then just signed by Ramsay? That would explain the different handwriting (if it was different).

Still, I believe it was Ramsay who wrote it. I think he wrote it in haste (explaining the lesser quantity of wax) and I also think that not every claim in it is true - either because Stannis managed to full the Boltons, or because Ramsay is flat out lying about that part.

Well that is what I think as well. Stannis can recover a small amount of pink wax from the letter sent to Asha by Ramsay. Then use it to send the Pink Letter.

But why? Why would Stannis do that?

[-Ghost-]

What if the letter was penned down by the new Maester of Winterfell, whoever he is? And then just signed by Ramsay? That would explain the different handwriting (if it was different).

How do we know there is a new maester at WF? Winterfell has been abandon for a while, so I dont think they would have sent one there before the Boltons arrival and they havent been there that long to request one. The Dreadfort maester is with Stannis right? Is there any mention of Manderly or the Freys or anyone bringing theirs along? Plus Ramsay wrote every other letter himself, why not this one too?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

It seems more than obvious to me that Mance wrote the Pink letter. He wrote it in a way that would rile Jon up hard core and give him no choice but to come to Winterfell. Ramsay did not write the Pink letter, look at the style and the words he uses, the Pink letter is not the same as the others Ramsay definitely wrote. Also;

1. Ramsay does not like the word Bastard

2. Ramsay does not call Jon 'bastard' in any other letters

3. To my knowledge Ramsay never refers to anyone as bastard during any of his dialogue (I could be wrong about that)

4. When Mance was at at the wall disguised as Rattleshirt he calls Jon 'bastard' several times in exactly the same way as the letter.

5. Mance would have every bit of info that was in the letter, and very few others would have all that info.

6. there was a 'smear' of pink wax used instead of a button, that is because it is not the same person doing it, possibly it was done in haste.

7. Ramsay doesnt ever refer to Stannis as 'the false king' during his time at winterfell when Stannis is marching towards them.

[jet199]

I think GRRM has the first two letters in different inks to show that the difference between them is easily noticeable. He also has Asha and Jon notice that the handwriting so if different people people wrote the pink letter or the signature was different to the main text then it would have been noticed by Jon when he read the pink letter.

Also even though GRRM doesn't spell it out that the pink letter is written in ink he does have Tormund say "If I had me a nice goose quill and a pot o’ maester’s ink, I could write down that me member was long and thick as me arm, wouldn’t make it so.” while the letter is being discussed. This is basically hiding the fact that the letter is not written in blood in plain sight. Also the phrase "maester’s ink" is only used in AFFC and ADWD so it has probably been introduced because it is useful to the plot of those books in some way.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

How do we know there is a new maester at WF? Winterfell has been abandon for a while, so I dont think they would have sent one there before the Boltons arrival and they havent been there that long to request one. The Dreadfort maester is with Stannis right? Is there any mention of Manderly or the Freys or anyone bringing theirs along? Plus Ramsay wrote every other letter himself, why not this one too?

Yes, Stannis has Maester Tybald. The Hornwood, Cerwyn and Slate maesters are at Winterfell.

It seems more than obvious to me that Mance wrote the Pink letter. He wrote it in a way that would rile Jon up hard core and give him no choice but to come to Winterfell. Ramsay did not write the Pink letter, look at the style and the words he uses, the Pink letter is not the same as the others Ramsay definitely wrote. Also;

1. Ramsay does not like the word Bastard

2. Ramsay does not call Jon 'bastard' in any other letters

3. To my knowledge Ramsay never refers to anyone as bastard during any of his dialogue (I could be wrong about that)

4. When Mance was at at the wall disguised as Rattleshirt he calls Jon 'bastard' several times in exactly the same way as the letter.

5. Mance would have every bit of info that was in the letter, and very few others would have all that info.

6. there was a 'smear' of pink wax used instead of a button, that is because it is not the same person doing it, possibly it was done in haste.

7. Ramsay doesnt ever refer to Stannis as 'the false king' during his time at winterfell when Stannis is marching towards them.

I tend to agree with this. The contents of the PL point to Mance. I don't think Ramsay wrote it and I can't think of one convincing reason why it would have been Stannis.