Why are the Valyrians so fair-skinned?

[Ocelot]

The Valyrian Peninsula was located in a warm, sunny Mediterranean climate, yet the Valyrians were distinguished by their pale skin and hair. Meanwhile, the Rhoynar, who originate in a region to the north of the Valyrian Peninsula, are olive/brown-skinned. This does not make a lot of sense, and could be seen as unconsciously racist (mighty sorcerers and conquerors must be white). What are your thoughts?

[Tyrus Martell]

It's fairly unrealistic, but then again a lot of things about Westeros and Essos don't make sense. In the end it's a fantasy story, so as readers we let these things slide for the sake of the narrative.

Some other ridiculous examples of pale skin are the Qartheen, who live in on the coast of a desert but are pale white.

[Ziriath]

Dany got tanned quite well, when she was in Dothraki sea. Do not know about Viserys, maybe he covered himself to stay distinguishable from the dothraki barbarians.

[louzeyre]

Because the Targ are also the incestuous, half-crazy dynasty that were overthrown because their last king responded to the crown prince (according to most of the characters) kidnapping and raping the daughter of a pale northern lord by burning said lord and choking his heir in a horribly barbaric way and making them one of the darker skinned families in the story (to reflect more their Roman/ Egyptian historic counterparts) would also have some unfortunate implications?

[Mrs. Tyrion Lannister]

This is a good question and I don't really know the answer.

The only ideas I can come up with are:

1. Maybe the people identified as Valyrian originated elsewhere and migrated to the Valyrian peninsula (with or without their sheep).
   
2. Evolution of characteristics such as skin tone, hair color, etc can take a very long time, so maybe the Valyrian land mass shifted away from a cool, dark spot where the Valyrians had spent a zillion years evolving their characteristics, and perhaps they have not actually been in that warm climate for long enough to change their DNA.
   
3. We all know about the crazy seasons in Planetos, but we don't know the real truth (as opposed to what characters in the story believe to be the truth) about climate change, which could affect the coloring of the Valyrians and others independent of migrating land masses.
   

Of course, that's a pretty shoddy stab in the dark from someone whose education in such matters is, well, nonexistent. I suspect GRRM didn't account for geographic factors affecting the physical appearance of his characters in the case of the Valyrians, Qartheen, etc, and that we are expected to suspend disbelief. I think it was in one of the SSMs that GRRM said genetics on Planetos are more magical in nature than scientific.

I have always been curious about the "hairy men" of Ibben. How hairy are they?? How cold is Ibben? Are the Ibbenese normal humans?

[Ser Lepus]

Founder effect. The dragonlord nobility were extremely endogamous, so, if the first dragonlords were fair skinned (I guess they could be descended from people emigrated form somewhere north of Valyria) their descendants would inherit those traits. If a bunch of fair-skinned people breed with each other and only with each other, their descendants will tend to be all fair skinned.

The rest of the Valyrians were also fair-skinned, but not so much (they tend to blond with blue eyes, not silver-haired with violet eyes); I guess the commoners among the Valyrians weren't so endogamous as the dragonlord nobility, so they became a bit less Valyrian-looking. The Lysene, who are relatively isolated from other populations remain very fair-skinned, while the Myroshi has lost all Valyrian traits they could ever have had.

[Synthius]

You could say "magic".

Or you could go on the theory that they simply found light skin more desirable and breeding did the rest.

[Ziriath]

Also, the people and nations move....In our world, the very first appearance of the blonde gene is supposed to be in Iran, not in Scandinavia.

And evolution laws cannot be applied to humans strictly...If an animal has a rare mutation which causes a low resistance to heat and sunlight (or cold), it simply moves somewhere else, or dies. Humans can build for themselves better houses, wear more or less clothes, and can further procreate, so the gene can stay in the population. The valyrian features could appear long time after the evolution sorted people out.

[Free Northman Reborn]

My theory is that the Long Night served as an evolutionary bottleneck 8000 years ago.

A relatively small number of people served as the founding populations of the proto nations that arose in the post apocalyptic world.

So if you had a small group of a few hundred migrating light skinned people that moved into the Valyrian peninsula after fleeing say the Forests of the Ifeqevron during the Long Night, they could have spawned a million strong proto Valyrian population within a few centuries.

By the time they discovered dragons they were a nation, and the rest is history.

[Darkbringer]

Evolution takes a long time. I imagine the ancestors of Europeans were brownish for a long time before they adjustment to low UV levels.

[jet199]

My theory is that their looks come form the magic they used to practise (I think GRRM has said it may be magic related) particularly the steel working magic. I think the Daynes used the same spells to make Dawn that the Valyrians used to make VS, although the forging techniques were different, which is why they have the same colouring.

I would say though that the warmth of the climate does not effect skin colour, it is the amount of sunlight that is important. Valyria may have been warm but with all those volcanoes I doubt they had clear skies very often. You often find that people who live in mountainous regions have paler skins even if the temperature is the same as on the plains because mountains create cloud cover.

[hiemal]

I always thought they were pale and fair-haired as a nod to Elric and his fellow Melniboneans- another island kingdom ruled by an eldritch folk who rule an empire forged by dragons and sorcery.

[Daenyra]

How do we know what the Valyrian climate was like before the Doom? Not that it matters much.

Not all people in the Mediterranian region are olive-skined and dark-haired. A lot of them are just tanned, which is different.

Valyrians are fair-skinned and blond/silver-haired because of the the same reason inuits in real life are not- genes! This makes a lot of sense.

My thoughts on the white conqueror stereotype you mentioned (which is pretty simplistic view on white people, btw :stillsick: )- You seem to forget that the Roynar are mighty conquerors, too. They also have superior cultural values and social structure that they brought with them to Dorne.

Don't look for a calf under an ox. :uhoh:

[The Dragon has three heads]

The weird bit is the daynes.

Why do they look valyrian...

It brings me back to the poster who mentioned something about proto nations...perhaps after the long night some of the dayne family branches went to valyria and started over wanting to be far from westeros. Where as the descendants of the sword of the morning stayed to protect westeros.

[NymeriaInFlesh]

My theory is that their looks come form the magic they used to practise (I think GRRM has said it may be magic related) particularly the steel working magic. I think the Daynes used the same spells to make Dawn that the Valyrians used to make VS, although the forging techniques were different, which is why they have the same colouring.

I would say though that the warmth of the climate does not effect skin colour, it is the amount of sunlight that is important. Valyria may have been warm but with all those volcanoes I doubt they had clear skies very often. You often find that people who live in mountainous regions have paler skins even if the temperature is the same as on the plains because mountains create cloud cover.

Eventhough I've been a fan and a stalker of this forum for a long time, this is my first post so I have no idea if I'm doing it right :D but...

I agree with you, I also think that the coloring of Targaryens' hair and skin has something to do with magic.

I understand that if they breed in the family, they keep the genes "pure" but I wonder how would it be possible for Rhaeghar's children to have silver hair (and probably fair skin) if their mother was princess Elia Martell (black hair, olive skin). If we are speaking of genetics, that would mean that Targaryen gene is very "strong" which is not common for lighter pigments. So I guess there has to be some magic involved in their blood that makes their genes artificially stronger.

Which then brings me to famous Jon Snow's parentage. In his case, genetics worked properly, it would seem. If his father was indeed Rhaeghar (as I like to believe), why doesn't he look Targaryen-like? Maybe it's for the sake of the narrative or maybe even Starks have some sort of magic running through their veins (most of them are wargs, after all)...

[Mayura]

I think it is because of the sorcery the Valyrians were practicing. They were said to have this out of the world beauty and it is probably due to the component that is actually in their blood as well as sorcery. Also, we have no idea what the "climate" was in Valyria.

[Mayura]

My theory is that their looks come form the magic they used to practise (I think GRRM has said it may be magic related) particularly the steel working magic. I think the Daynes used the same spells to make Dawn that the Valyrians used to make VS, although the forging techniques were different, which is why they have the same colouring.

I would say though that the warmth of the climate does not effect skin colour, it is the amount of sunlight that is important. Valyria may have been warm but with all those volcanoes I doubt they had clear skies very often. You often find that people who live in mountainous regions have paler skins even if the temperature is the same as on the plains because mountains create cloud cover.

sorry for the double post but I pretty much agree with this!

Also, Valyria and the 9 free cities have always reminded me of the legends surrounding Atlantis. Atlantis was a civilisation of seemingly more advanced, powerful and beautiful people (like the Valyrians). Their civilisation did count 10 cities, a main one and 9 secondary ones (9 Free Cities anyone?). Interesting enough: the most important of these cities was surrounded by a canal where it was possible to navigate (Braavos anyone?). They had, among their natural ressources, a precious and rare metal called "orichalc" that served for weaponry and armors among other things (--> valyrian steel) and their civilisation was destroyed by a giant earthquake/volcanic eruption, therefore advantaging their athenian enemies and stopping the colonisation started by the atlants.

The similarities between Valyria/Atlantis as well with Valyria and the french author Barjavel's work in "La nuit des Temps" are too striking to be ignored imo. All of these civilisations involve a people of great beauty and seeminly in-breeding to keep the blood pure. They were also all using science/sorcery. So it would be logical to think the Valyrian beauty can be explained by the Valyrians's use of sorcery/inbreeding.

[Drake Heath]

I always assumed it was because Valyria was polluted by volcano smoke and it blotted out the sky, allowing them to have pale skin.

[glamourweaver]

I feel awkward in anyway defending it because the real reason is "Because GRRM wanted his magical ethnicity fair and blond with all the baggage that brings" - BUT if I were to defend it, I'd point out that a people preternaturally resistant to heat and light wouldn't develop higher melanin levels to cope with a tropical climate, not needing it at all.

[Drake Heath]

I feel awkward in anyway defending it because the real reason is "Because GRRM wanted his magical ethnicity fair and blond with all the baggage that brings" - BUT if I were to defend it, I'd point out that a people preternaturally resistant to heat and light wouldn't develop higher melanin levels to cope with a tropical climate, not needing it at all.

Yeah, he probably just thought incestuous albino dragon riders sounded cool, but it's fun to find an in-universe reason as to why they're like that.