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Iron Hawk

I don't like the Starks.

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In some ways I see your point. However, I completely disagree with you.


See yourself as a woman, see yourself as Catelyn. Your husband went away after he just saw you one night and made you pregnant. And after a year he comes back, you want to show him your son, you're so proud of the child and want to show it. Your husband comes home and he's got a bastard with him, the sign that he has cheated on you. Of course you are angry with the child. Jon reminds Cat of Ned's cheating and that's why she hates him.


I really understand why she does it, I would do the same, really.



On Ned, yes, did confess to treason, but he thought he would be spared and that he could save his children from the Lannisters by doing it. He thought that he would go to The Wall and take Sansa and Arya safe home. Sansa is quite selfish, but she is an eleven year old girl who has never seen the real world, who grew up with songs about maidens and princes. She wants to have her songs, she sees the way people live in the songs as the only way she can be happy. She is just a child and she thinks as a child.



Robb did marry Jeyne because of he took her maidenhood, something very noble. However, the series made a real love story of the relationship of Robb and Talisa. I found it quite weird that they did that in the show, because it is so different from the story and made Robb a less likable character. Of course, it is sad for the Frey girl, but I think that it is different for a guy who just lost his two brothers, his father and believes one of his sisters is dead and the other is taken hostage.



I think that once you read the books, you see the reasons why some people do some things that are different from the series or just left out there. I did to me, at least. I never liked Sansa in the series, but now I see her as an interesting character. Another thing you must see are the ages of the characters, especially the children. Robb is sixteen, Sansa eleven and Arya nine, that changes a lot of how they behiave in some situations, just because of their young age.



Well, I didn't mean to write this much...


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I might add that the ageup in the show didn't help us see the mistakes as forgivable (or the characters as kids), in the cases of Sansa, Daenerys, Robb and Jon at least



Dude, even Brienne is still about 18 years old


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Also, there is an oft-repeated theory, with a fair amount of circumstantial evidence (but no absolute proof) that Ned Stark did NOT, in fact, cheat on his wife at all, and that Jon's obvious Stark parentage (he has the family likeness) comes from another source...

(Although if this is true, he's told Catelyn a lie and stuck to that lie for years, rather than risk letting her into a secret: possibly for fear that she might not be able to keep it - not that she would tell *everyone* but that she might tell, perhaps, one person who really shouldn't be told, because they might repeat it further. Such as her sister. Or, perhaps, for fear that the secret of Jon's true parentage might actually prove *dangerous* to anyone who knows or even suspects it, to the point that Ned has to not just be keeping it secret even from Catelyn, but be SEEN to be keeping Jon's parentage secret even from Catelyn, to make it clear to the whole world that only Ned knows, and Ned would clearly never tell even under torture - but Catelyn, if she knew, might be at risk: so Ned has to make it absolutely clear that even Catelyn does not know, just in case anybody else ever comes to the conclusion that Jon's parentage is an important thing.)

(Which, in turn, suggests to me that Jon's parentage IS indeed an important thing: i.e. that, at the very least, his non-Stark parent was NOT a commoner but a noble, and someone whose identity is better off not known. This, at any rate, rules out Wylla the Wetnurse, whose name Ned gives when King Robert asks who Jon's mother was.)

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Well she's woman so

;) Hutch

Well he did a noble thing then, but he seemed rather smug about it, does that also deviate from the book? In the show he seemed very proud that he got to marry Talisa and he showed indifference to the fact that he broke an oath.

Well played sir. *tip of my hat*

I really dig the Starks, so nitpicking seemed appropriate. It did seem almost joking, but you never know. Blind rage seems to come easy in disagreements about favorite characters, so no hard feelings. (As my "humor" has also been misconstrued on numerous occasions)

Eta: I might also take this moment to suggest reading the books. You won't regret it.

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I know why Ned went to King's Landing; early on he didn't seem like he wanted to go. He changed his mind after receiving that letter, so I understand why he went. Perhaps weak wasn't the most accurate term, but I thought it was weak to give in and confess a crime he didn't commit.

You know, perhaps Ned did commit treason against Robert. Not the one he was accused of, but the meeting between Cersei and Ned is the meeting of the two people who harbor the two most dangerous secrets to Robert's peaceful reign. They discuss both their treasons, even though Cersei has no idea of Ned's, but she still refers to it. Still, Ned is as much a traitor for hiding Jon as Cersei is for cheating on Robert.

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Alot of people are very attached to the Starks, primarily because they are our first window into the world GRRM created, but also because they are easy to empathise with.


Robb is the best example: what would you do if someone killed your father then demanded you bend the knee?



The Starks also have a coolness factor to them, Lords of the North : one of the harshest realms in terms of people and climate. Direwolves/warging, ancient blood line.


People do forget though and it is referenced in the books, that the starks were and indeed are not all like Ned ( was). It takes hard,ruthless and strong men to rule, doubly so to rule the north and to make yourself King of the North and keep the Boltons in line you need to be very willful and strong indeed.



Neds brother and father are described as being very different in character to Ned himself, he was the quiet younger son, not expected to rule.



As for Catelyn, meh dont forget by birth her blood is Tully. Aside from the Blackfish, i cant think of one good thing thats come out of the Riverlands.


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As for Catelyn, meh dont forget by birth her blood is Tully. Aside from the Blackfish, i cant think of one good thing thats come out of the Riverlands.

"Let's marry Lysa to Jaime Lannister, the heir of the Rock!"

Jaime joined "Kingsguard"!

"Screw it, you know that toothless old Hand? He's a nice guy... and DON'T you ever think about that Baelish guy you love, he doesn't have armies"

Hoster was a big asshole, though differently from the other liege lords for he was much more political. While Balon tried to claim independence, Tywin burned his vassals' keeps, and Robert beat his "legitimate" children and cheated on his queen, Hoster married his only two daughters to horrible lords for swords.

And don't forget he also tried to ally with the Redwynes via Blackfish; I can imagine Brynden saying something like "your family aren't pawns to your game, Hoster!" and then heading off to the Vale. Edmure acts like a Catelyn-minus-the-North-plus-a-dick the whole time.

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I think the Starks are way too honorable which is what gets 2 of them killed.



Ned wasn't the smartest guy, 1st he shouldn't have told Cersei he knows the truth about her children, he should've went to Robert instantly, 2nd he should have not trusted Littlefinger, can't stress this enough, dumbest mistake ever made!!



Sansa, while I don't like her much either, she's is spoiled and "high maintenance" even when she was a fugitive she commented on Littlefinger's meager home (she should've been happy she wasn't in the black cells instead!!) and I also think at times she's full of herself. Let's not even mention her telling on her father. But karma came for her and she suffered enough and even after KL she's having to pose as a bastard. I have no doubt she'll learn as she grows and if not then she'll be dead eventually



Robb made the extremely stupid mistake of marrying some random girl from a useless house again in the name of honor. He was striving to be like his father so one can attribute this mistake to that fact. But he got killed just like his father.



So in the end the Starks could be annoying, but you also have to pity them as their mistakes end in suffering or death. I think it's the fact that they're too innocent and pure that makes them fail in the game of thrones.


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Well , i really liked Ned , i don't know why , i usually don't like the hero of a series , and at this book , i thought Ned was the main character. But no after the first book , i wasn't "supporting" Robb for the throne (what a fool he was! He made wrong choices on top of wrong choices and lost his head because of it...). Sansa? Hah , she is a joke , plus she and her mother (I'll count her as Stark , as a Tully she was again a member of... a rather "stupid" family , well except her uncle Blackfish) provided some of the most boring Ice and Fire chapters. Only characters i really fancied from the family from the beginning is Bran and Arya , but no i wasn't with the Starks at any point , so many people sympathy with them and want them to win or something , but i searched , for other people to support..in the "GAME OF THE THRONE!"


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Not really a fan of any of the starks, except Bran...and Jon Snow...



Ned - Should have taken his info on the Twincest to Robert and let him make his own decision on that



Robb - never had any reason to be a King, he wanted was his father and sisters back, I lay that blunder at the Greatjons feet



Cat - With so much time in the north, she was still a Tully at heart, Family Duty Honour, letting Jaime go was her fatal mistake



Sansa - Didn't she tell Cersie that Ned was planning to leave Kings Landing with his Daughters?



Arya - Stick em with the pointy end! ok ok i guess i like her too



I think that Jon and Bran will be vital to the outcome of the overall story, moreso than Sansa and her loved lemoncakes


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