True Detective IX - Cohle Logic

[Ramsay B.]

Watch her as a detective in the amazing Top of the Lake, a six part miniseries set in New Zealand's south island. (I think it's still streaming on Netflix) Anyway, she's great, though her accent comes and goes a bit.

Yeah, I'm excited for Moss because of Top of the Lake. I never watched Mad Men or remember her in much else but she was great in that. Ferrell is a perfect choice and the others are interesting but I have faith in the powers that be.

People flipping out over Ginger, haha!

[Alex.]

Taylor Kitsch is excellent IMO. Obviously I loved him in Friday Night Lights (my second favourite programme ever), but his later stuff is worth a watch as well. He might well end up being the 'breakout' star of the show.

This forum is notorious for taking a moderately funny joke and destroying it by constant repetition across multiple iterations of threads. It's soooo tiresome.

This is by far the truest thing I've ever read on this forum.

[Castel]

I'm working through it and Friday Night Lights is making me hate Taylor Kitsch, though I'm blaming that mostly on the writers.

Also: who is this guy's agent? He's a flop machine yet he's getting linked with this and The Raid remake? If he ever stops do bombing runs on Hollywood he should really give said agent a raise.

[Relic]

How can you hate Tim Riggins? How far into FNL are you?

[Tony Soprano]

You should watch Killer Joe with Matthew McConaughey. That will probably get rid of any memory of Matthew the rom-com king ;)

I agree. He was great in 'In Bruges', but that was more because the role was perfectly tailored to him. In most other movies I have seen in him, the best thing I can say is that he isn't very memorable.

Yeah, I have. I watched most of Matthew's post-Lincoln Lawyer movies after seeing him in True Detective. Looks like he shed the rom-com King image even before the show.

And you should watch Seven Psycopaths. It'll hopefully change your opinion about Farrell. But it was directed (and written, I think) by the same guy who did In Bruges, so I guess you could argue that was a role written for him too. But yeah, I think he's more than fit to play washed-up drug abusers.

[Veltigar]

Yeah, I have. I watched most of Matthew's post-Lincoln Lawyer movies after seeing him in True Detective. Looks like he shed the rom-com King image even before the show.

He apparently got so many bad reviews for "Ghosts of Girlfriends Past' that he went hiking in South-America, got very seriously ill (I believe it was diarrhoea) and then decided to better his life. After that he only took on roles that could help him grow as an actor.

And you should watch Seven Psycopaths. It'll hopefully change your opinion about Farrell. But it was directed (and written, I think) by the same guy who did In Bruges, so I guess you could argue that was a role written for him too. But yeah, I think he's more than fit to play washed-up drug abusers.

I love Seven Psychopaths, but I don't think Farrel does a very good job in the movie. He isn't bad, he's just not very memorable. Sam Rockwell, Woody Harrelson, Christopher Walken and the guy who plays the Vietnames priest are the actors I remember from that movie.

[Castel]

How can you hate Tim Riggins? How far into FNL are you?

Did Seasons 1, part of 2 and all of four. I skipped around.

And Tim Riggins' life is just a horrible set of misunderstandings and coincidences. Every time he does something nice he's shafted, every time he doesn't he's shafted.It's just an endless cycle. I don't like being manipulated by writers. Nor do I want to watch someone do the brooding thing for about three days worth of screentime.

[Raja]

Moving away from Tim Riggins ( because really that's what everyone should do), has anyone linked to this article in the previous iterations of the thread- Did the writer of True Detective plagarize Thomas Ligotti and others - I'm just about reading through it, it's fairly long. Not sure what to make of it yet.

[Queen of Whores]

Moving away from Tim Riggins ( because really that's what everyone should do), has anyone linked to this article in the previous iterations of the thread- Did the writer of True Detective plagarize Thomas Ligotti and others - I'm just about reading through it, it's fairly long. Not sure what to make of it yet.

Just finished reading this article. Quite disturbing, to say the least. I knew the show borrowed a fair bit from Nietzsche, but they were relatively small references at most. This is much more heavy. Those side-by-side quotes are shocking to read, and I can't believe no repercussions have arisen because of this yet. It's definitely plagiarism, and I hope NP is held completely responsible for it.

[James Arryn]

Only the thresher usage to me betokened anything but the parallel lines you would hear in any similar philosophical expostulation of that argument, and the conceptual uniqueness of a thresher is rendered less unique when seen as a reasonable extension of very common nihilistic imagery of humans as 'mistaken meat'.

I have essentially said many of these things myself. I have heard or read almost all of them several times. I once wrote a paper expanding on the primacy of the Hippocratic Oath which I am sure contained several lines which would seem at least as plagiaristic if it hadn't been written long before I'd heard of either of these parties.

I am not saying this isn't plagiarism, or that it's not wrong if it is. I'm just saying that Cohle's words aren't particularly unique, excepting the medium.

[john]

Meh, the quotes side by side didn't impress me. Pizzolatto improved every single line. Same is true for the Alan Moore "Once there was only black ..." line.

It is quite shady that he didn't acknowledge those influences though.

edit - and Ligotti really thinks those things? What a weirdo.

[Queen of Whores]

edit - and Ligotti really thinks those things? What a weirdo.

What's so weird about it? He's just as right in thinking the world and our species is wrong and terrible as others are in thinking it's wonderful and good.

[Castel]

We need weirdos to absorb the impact of outlandish ideas so they can eventually filter down in a tolerable form.

[Shryke]

Meh, the quotes side by side didn't impress me. Pizzolatto improved every single line. Same is true for the Alan Moore "Once there was only black ..." line.

It is quite shady that he didn't acknowledge those influences though.

He has.

[Raja]

Finished the article last night. Some of those lines are awfully close to the source, but again it devolves into a taking the creator's word over the author who wrote that article regarding the timeline of the interviews NP gave concerning Ligotti. It's odd that he hasn't mentioned Ligotti in the DVD commentaries and what not, but it is difficult to make a judgement without actually watching said commentaries.

[Castel]

Finished the article last night. Some of those lines are awfully close to the source, but again it devolves into a taking the creator's word over the author who wrote that article regarding the timeline of the interviews NP gave concerning Ligotti. It's odd that he hasn't mentioned Ligotti in the DVD commentaries and what not, but it is difficult to make a judgement without actually watching said commentaries.

Isn't the timeline readily available online?

But on this: honestly not sure how I feel about this really. On the one hand; building a character using philosophies that exists before isn't a crime and the person writing the article seems to have problems with "originality", probably because Ligotti is in his basement and Pizzolato is making bank with a character that Ligotti might well feel some parental attachment to. On the other hand: the quotes are pretty similar and I'm not sure of the timeline at all.

EDIT: Also, anyone seen his comments on the criticism of his portrayal of women?

Such criticism incenses Pizzolatto. Those who hammer the character of Marty's wife, Maggie, played by Michelle Monaghan, for being flimsy are missing the point. If her point of view had been shown and she had remained a lightweight, he acknowledges, then those jibes would have more validity. But the first season, he argues, was conceived as a close point-of-view show, wholly told through the eyes and experiences of the two male characters. "You can either accept that about the show or not, but it's not a phony excuse," he says, unable to hide his frustration. He adds that he consulted his friend Callie Khouri on the matter: "When Callie, who wrote Thelma & Louise, thinks that that's stupid criticism, I'm inclined to take her opinion over someone with a Wi-Fi connection."...

Still, he admits that as he conceived the second season he found himself taking the criticism into account. But when he realized that's what was happening, he abruptly changed course and ditched whole characters. "I don't think you can create effectively toward expectation," he says. "I'm not in the service business." The scripts he's working on when we meet have four leads, three of them cops, one of whom is female, but that, too, is likely to change

So all the rumours of all female leads wasn't just the internet's way of sending a message but something he considered and possibly discarded? But I doubt he put the info out there, probably just a coincidence.

[Raja]

It probably is. That article goes into some of it regarding when he gave those interviews and why, but other than that, I haven't had the time to look into it. It's certainly put a blot on the enjoyment I had whilst watching True Detective.

[Isalie]

I dunno, two or three of those quotes seem pretty dodgy, but the rest seems like pretty general ideas that are hardly unique. Seems to me that it's pretty hard to keep track of every inspiration and every expression we come across. I guess it's probable that he sometime during the process read Ligotti and picked up on concepts that he thought fitting for Cohle.

To me, the indignant author of the article just comes across as trying to hard.

[David Selig]

Come on, this is no plagiarism, these are very common philosophical statements, made long before Ligotti by many others, and the phrasing is hardly "word for word", in fact most of the time it's quite different.

[john]

He has.

He has now. He didn't before. It Pizzolatto had said he'd never read Ligotti's book I'd have been perfectly willing to believe him. But he's apparently now said that he deliberately wrote some of the dialogue close to phrases from the book as a sort of easter egg for Ligotti fans. And the guy is never mentioned once on the dvd special features? That seems like the behaviour of somebody who thinks he's got something to hide.

What's so weird about it? He's just as right in thinking the world and our species is wrong and terrible as others are in thinking it's wonderful and good.

Well, he's right in that sense (or rather, he's wrong but he's entitled to his opinion). He's still a weirdo though if he genuinely thinks like that. Rust is also a weirdo but at least he's a fictional character.