EW Reveals 7 Season Plan

[OnlyOne]

Since none of us know the outcome of WOW and beyond, speculating at this point is absurd.

[Caerl Targaryen]

Since none of us know the outcome of WOW and beyond, speculating at this point is absurd.

Telling people on this forum that speculating is absurd is almost the same as telling someone they can't fly. ;)

[sj4iy]

aegon will be in the show, he is a really big deal.

Yeah, I don't see how he can be cut unless he's killed in the very first page of TWoW

[Caerl Targaryen]

Yeah, I don't see how he can be cut unless he's killed in the very first page of TWoW

Which isn't likely.

[Petyr Patter]

I find it really hard to believe that they've accelerated Sansa's story in season 4 just in order to stretch it out ridiculously in season 5 and be forced to make up a lot of material. (And how much can you even make up with her in Vale, as opposed to someone who's travelling around the Riverlands or north of the Wall and having all kinds of adventures?) It defies logic. Sansa has very little material in AFFC to begin with, especially if you remove her internal thoughts.

I would guess they already decided to write her additional season 5 material not found in books. Like you stated, they only have 3 chapters to work with, which can be summed up with Marillion found guilty, Lords Declarant form and beaten over one sitting, and trip down the mountain to learn about Harold Hardyng. This means no matter what, they probably decided to expand upon what is happening in the Vale.

The obvious place to expand the drama is with the Lords Declarant. Make it a series of backroom deals instead of one encounter with a plant. There is also a great character with only one short scene in the remaining two novels that would be a great addition for behind the curtains shenanigans, Varys.

Of course, not knowing what Sansa's arc is after the Vale, its hard to know what exactly the right thing to do with her arc is.

[Night's_King666]

I think it's clear that 8 seasons are out of the question, in terms of seasons in the sense that is usually used. However, HBO can bypass the restriction by making the final season longer. The Sopranos is widely agreed to be a seven-season show, even though officially it's a six-season one (the last season was double-length and then split in half and shown separately, to prevent them having to do contract renegotiations). BSG is sold on DVD as a five-season show, even though it's a four season show with the final season split in half and shown a year apart. There's also the situation with Breaking Bad, and HBO previously did something similar with Oz (though, oddly, halfway through its run rather than at the end).

The problem is that production lead-time for GoT is pretty intense and they probably don't have the time to do a significantly longer-than-normal season if they are sticking to their normal timetable (filming July-December, transmitting April-June). So the only way it'd be doable is if they also moved GoT to say Boardwalk Empire's slot in September (though we should remember that there'll be another show in that slot by that point) for the last season and then maybe broke it in two. That way they could get anything from 5 to 10 extra episodes.

However, I the problems involved in moving timeslots and the extra cost of a double-length final season mean that I don't think it's likely that HBO will do this. If they do, that would at least square that circle (7 seasons = 80 episodes, so both HBO and D&D are right).

probably 8, the writers said 7 or 8 seasons meaning they are not sure how to write the material that's in Winds of Winter and a the last book. Season 5 will have Winds of Winter storylines, the writers have said this numerous times. They are combining all the times lines, the Bran storyline in the book will most likely be covered by the end of this season perhaps the beginning of season 5 than WoW material and i'm sure there will be others.

[alliserinchains]

Do you think in season 7 they will still have Alliser Thorne wear high heels?

[skorpion]

To me, there's no way they can end season 5 w/o one of the major battles that were supposed to be in book 5, and that's def TWOW territory.

[Jeb]

Season 5 has the potential to be the bestseason yet for a number of reasons Once you remove the unnecessary fat that Martin's edito chose to keep in the books for what I can only assume was for purely financial reasons, there is actually quite a bit of interesting stuff going on. Unlike both this season and last season, D & D won't have to include expendable filler, and this could make for a nice tight season. Personallly, I'm hoping for the Battle of Ice in this season, but I think it might be easier (and cheaper) if they did the Battle of Fire, and I expect that will be the one they include (as Martin should have done in the fifth book).

[Caerl Targaryen]

probably 8, the writers said 7 or 8 seasons meaning they are not sure how to write the material that's in Winds of Winter and a the last book. Season 5 will have Winds of Winter storylines, the writers have said this numerous times. They are combining all the times lines, the Bran storyline in the book will most likely be covered by the end of this season perhaps the beginning of season 5 than WoW material and i'm sure there will be others.

"Numerous times?" I've yet to see them say that once. I'd love to see a quote from them saying that. I've seen quotes from directors that won't be involved in season 5 implying that there will be more made up content and I've seen quotes from D&D saying "the books are published first," meaning they won't advance storylines into unpublished material. If they do, it'll likely deviate.

I really do not get this obsession with people on this forum and elsewhere where people think the show will spoil GRRM's book series. It's as ridiculous now as it was the first time I read it.

[AnotherCrannogman]

I find it really hard to believe that they've accelerated Sansa's story in season 4 just in order to stretch it out ridiculously in season 5 and be forced to make up a lot of material. (And how much can you even make up with her in Vale, as opposed to someone who's travelling around the Riverlands or north of the Wall and having all kinds of adventures?) It defies logic. Sansa has very little material in AFFC to begin with, especially if you remove her internal thoughts.

They could have easily stretched out Sansa's story this season (much more easily than Bran's), have her appear in 5-6 episodes and have Only Cat in the finale. Most people expected them to do that. Instead, she's in 8 episodes, and two of them are going to be after Lysa's death. What this tells me is that Sansa probably has a huge story and lots of material post-AFFC/ADWD and that this is why they're starting it/setting it up early instead of cramming it later on. (However, I'm sure they aren't going to do HtH this season, because that hasn't been set up at all, would need to much to set up, and would have no emotional resonance, for reasons already explained. But I do think they may have LF tells Sansa that he will help her retake Winterfell.) For all we know, she may have as many chapters and stuff happening in TWOW as Jon had in ADWD.

Now, about aligning her storyline with the others; well, it's not like the show has been trying to keep all the storylines happening at the same pace as they do in the books. And the question is, which storylines does her storyline even have to be aligned with? And which storylines will not go further than ADWD in season 5? We can't assume that all storylines will finish where they finish in ADWD and that they won't go to TWOW. In fact, I'm sure that at least three if not more will have to use TWOW material next season, even if it's just chapters that were moved from ADWD. The only storylines that I'm sure will not go into TWOW next season are Jon/the Wall and Cersei/King's Landing. Stannis & the Boltons is an open question - if the Battle of Ice does not happen before Jon's stabbing, then I think it will be early in season 6. If it happens before Jon's stabbing, then it will be at the end of season 5, because Jon's stabbing is finale material. With Bran, they could use his greensight to reveal things from the past and they may emphasize him communicating/influencing other events, as with Theon. But there's no way that they are going to keep both battles out of season 5 as GRRM kept them out from ADWD; and, with the way they've already done a part of Dany's Meereen storyline this season, I think the Battle of Fire will near the end of/at the end of season 5. (And GRRM himself has already revealed a lot about the battle through the released chapters.) The other two storylines that I can't see not using TWOW material are Sansa and Brienne/Jaime/LS, because there really isn't much to do next season with what they're doing with Brienne this season, and I can't see Brienne needing an entire season to get to Jaime and popping up just at the end to meet him, without resolution to that story. At the very least, they will do Sansa's chapter that was moved from ADWD - and if they include just that, GRRM will probably release it as he did the "Mercy" chapter - if the book isn't released by then. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's more than one chapter material for Sansa in season 5.

Second question, does Sansa's storyline have to align with the others in the same way as in the book, and which ones? I doubt that there's much overlap with the North storyline or King's Landing or Meereen early on. The storyline that's most likely to be aligned with Sansa's at this point is the other one that really needs TWOW material for season 5 - Jaime/Brienne/LS, since they are looking for Sansa. And keep in mind that GRRM himself has probably changed his original plans on the pacing of storylines since he got rid of the 5-year gap. The gap was there to allow the kids to grow up in order to be old enough to convincingly do whatever they're supposed to do in the second (now third) part of the story. It didn't work because GRRM realized that the other people wouldn't just stop doing things for 5 years. The show doesn't have to wait so long to age up the kids since they're already a couple of years older than they are in the book - and the actors are a couple more years older than that, so the show better try making it seem like more time has passed than it did in the books at this point, because it's not going to be convincing for long to claim that Bran is 12 etc... Which, at the very least, diminishes the need to stretch out their storylines until they grow up and end their training period; the show can accelerate their storylines. I also expect the show to at least hint before the end of season 5 that Arya is coming back to Westeros.

The showrunners know what happens, so their emphasis on Sansa could mean she is one of the winners in the end and is either Queen of the North or Queen of Westeros. I think it is probable that the Starks end up winning it all in the end.

[Winnief]

The showrunners know what happens, so their emphasis on Sansa could mean she is one of the winners in the end and is either Queen of the North or Queen of Westeros. I think it is probable that the Starks end up winning it all in the end.

Well, GRRM was going to title ADOS, "A Time for Wolves," so yeah, while after all the horror she's experienced, I wouldn't call Sansa (or anyone else in this series) a winner, it's entirely possible she's going to be a figure of GREAT importance by the end-and one of those working to rebuild Westeros.

[Faint]

. . . meaning they won't advance storylines into unpublished material. If they do, it'll likely deviate.

I really do not get this obsession with people on this forum and elsewhere where people think the show will spoil GRRM's book series. It's as ridiculous now as it was the first time I read it.

So you are suggesting that Benioff and Weiss, on account of knowledge only known to you, went through the trouble of finding out and outlining how every character's storyline is going to end for no reason?

It's an advantage to have the books. Even if you stray from them, you have a blueprint. You don't have to bend to the will of the fans, if they are screaming for something to happen. You've got George R. R. Martin.

David Benioff: Well, it's a little complicated, because we have the five books, but then we don't have anything beyond that, because he's still working. It's sort of an unusual position in terms of adaptation because, you know, we're catching up. It'll be interesting to see what happens. And we've talked to George. The lucky part is that George works with us and he's a producer on the show. Last year we went out to Santa Fe for a week to sit down with him and just talk through where things are going, because we don't know if we are going to catch up, and where exactly that would be. As you were saying before, if you know the ending, then you can lay the groundwork for it. And so we want to know how everything ends. We want to be able to set things up. So we sat just down with him and literally went through every character and said, "So what's the destination for Daenarys? And Arya?"

[sj4iy]

I really do not get this obsession with people on this forum and elsewhere where people think the show will spoil GRRM's book series. It's as ridiculous now as it was the first time I read it.

It's not really an obsession...it's just accepting the reality of the situation. Martin may have TWoW out before next season, that is true...but the publisher has said "Definitely not before 2015". That could be before or after Season 5, and there are several characters that are nearly out of storyline. Even if he does get out TWoW next year, it is extremely unlikely that he will finish the last book before the series ends. That's just the reality. We've seen the show go take from story lines that are beyond ADwD already, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that they will draw more from future books going forward.

[Werthead]

I really do not get this obsession with people on this forum and elsewhere where people think the show will spoil GRRM's book series. It's as ridiculous now as it was the first time I read it.

That's a very bizarre statement. GRRM does not have ownership over the TV show and has no real control over what they do (he has opinions and some influence, but no veto). The original plan was that the situation would be avoided by him getting the books out more quickly, but that ship has now sailed. So now of course the TV show will overtake the books and finish first, and spoil the books. HBO has no issue with that whatsoever, as worldwide probably an absolute bare minimum of ten times as many watch the show as have ever read the books. Why should HBO risk the show ending early or going on hiatus for years, angering 90% of their audience, to appease the 10%? It makes no sense.

[sj4iy]

That's a very bizarre statement. GRRM does not have ownership over the TV show and has no real control over what they do (he has opinions and some influence, but no veto). The original plan was that the situation would be avoided by him getting the books out more quickly, but that ship has now sailed. So now of course the TV show will overtake the books and finish first, and spoil the books. HBO has no issue with that whatsoever, as worldwide probably an absolute bare minimum of ten times as many watch the show as have ever read the books. Why should HBO risk the show ending early or going on hiatus for years, angering 90% of their audience, to appease the 10%? It makes no sense.

^This.

[Winnief]

That's a very bizarre statement. GRRM does not have ownership over the TV show and has no real control over what they do (he has opinions and some influence, but no veto). The original plan was that the situation would be avoided by him getting the books out more quickly, but that ship has now sailed. So now of course the TV show will overtake the books and finish first, and spoil the books. HBO has no issue with that whatsoever, as worldwide probably an absolute bare minimum of ten times as many watch the show as have ever read the books. Why should HBO risk the show ending early or going on hiatus for years, angering 90% of their audience, to appease the 10%? It makes no sense.

Precisely. This is a problem of Martin's own making. Let's just be thankful that one way or another we'll get closure for the series.

[AnotherCrannogman]

This is of GRRM own making. That said it would be nice for us book readers to find the last major turns through the more detailed book format we like.

[Night's_King666]

This is of GRRM own making. That said it would be nice for us book readers to find the last major turns through the more detailed book format we like.

good luck with that, the show is so popular everyone will be talking about the TV series spoilers. -Like i'm pretty sure all the book readers now know about the revelation of the Night's King.

[Caerl Targaryen]

So D&D are going to spoil GRRM's biggest project, that he's been working on for 18+ years and they claim to be massive fans of, just because he happens to be a slow writer? And you think D&D and GRRM are ok with this concept? Seriously? Yeah ok. Believe what you want to believe but I highly doubt that will be happening. Their knowledge of where the books are headed doesn't prove anything about what they'll actually be writing.

The show isn't canon for the books and vice versa. It's an adaptation of the books, meaning they can adapt the story as they see fit. That also means they can make major changes, which they've already done many times.

Also, the quote from David Benioff doesn't prove anything. He was vague enough in his response that he didn't really even say what it is they'll be doing. It was a great non-answer answer.