Lord Varys Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Surely somebody has to carry Cersei's shoes, or fetch Qyburn his proper 'torture coat'. Mace will be glad to do that. I was thinking about writing a post about how I hope that Mace drops the facade upon Tywin's death and reveals that he is a greedy, ambitious guy who may actually be dangerous, but this can't really happen in this show, can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Surely somebody has to carry Cersei's shoes, or fetch Qyburn his proper 'torture coat'. Mace will be glad to do that. I was thinking about writing a post about how I hope that Mace drops the facade upon Tywin's death and reveals that he is a greedy, ambitious guy who may actually be dangerous, but this can't really happen in this show, can it? Don't see why not, especially with his positioning and the be hole created by Tywin's absence, I think it will be interesting to see how his character evolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 The same goes for Pycelle. Though he seems happy to be Tywin's lackey, especially in show canon, he has little reason to want to be Cersei's. I think it will be fun to see her trying to contend with a difficult Small Council. She thinks she's Tywin 2.0 of course and she'll find out horribly that she isn't. BTW, Ran, do you know whether or not we'll be seeing Qyburn again this season? That first glimpse in "Two Swords" got my hopes up and yet we haven't seen the slimy bugger since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 My problem is that the guy they present him as is so inconsequential as to strain credulity that he was able and willing to ignore his mother and wed Margaery to Renly. It feels like they had a conception like the book character, then went for the comedy so they turned him into a gormless lickspittle. It's jarring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 My problem is that the guy they present him as is so inconsequential as to strain credulity that he was able and willing to ignore his mother and wed Margaery to Renly. It feels like they had a conception like the book character, then went for the comedy so they turned him into a gormless lickspittle. It's jarring. How can it be jarring when we haven't actually seen him 'change' yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I know what you mean, Ran, but that is pretty easy to rectify actually. Especially if he feels Cersei is a threat to his daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 It's jarring because the man we're seeing is the sort of guy who only talks when his mother permits him and is bullied by, well, everyone. Whereas the guy who married his daughter to Renly Baratheon was ambitious and perfectly willing to disregard his mother. He wasn't afraid of her or dominated by her, he didn't let her decide all matters of importance. I mean, it's always Olenna who's paying for this and that. Why is she presented as controlling the purse strings? Probably because they decided that she does control them. It's not a matter of being in charge or not. It's having a character who acted one way with his mother two seasons ago, and now is acting in a diametrically opposed way. Why? For laughs, seriously. They just thought it'd be really funny, once they landed Diana Rigg and decided they had lots of fun writing Olenna. I would guess that next season, Margaery will basically lead him by the nose, and that if things make that impossible, Olenna will arrive on the scene to take over. Mace will always be second fiddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I really don't see a possibility for change in show Mace. No one is taking him seriously now, and no one will in the future. They chose to ignore his character in season 4, and I don't see how this should change in season 5. We should also stop believing/expecting that show Cersei is going to fuck things up. She will not, she is not book Cersei, and she won't make her mistakes or get anything resembling her AFfC. Yes, she'll get her walk, but everything else will be changed, especially because Taena/Orton, the Kettleblacks, Aurane, Ser Harys, etc. won't be there. Why the hell would they have added the 'House Lannister is broke' story, if they wanted to keep the 'Cersei is stupid and cannot rule' story? I guess we'll get some interpretation of the Qyburn-Gregor-story, but that should be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Maybe according to show canon his being Renly's lackey overshadowed him being his mother's lackey. That could be a potential explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I know what you mean, Ran, but that is pretty easy to rectify actually. Especially if he feels Cersei is a threat to his daughter. We've seen him be told to be quiet cause his mother's talking. We've sen him act as a manservant and told to run along and fetch. We've seen his mother kill his daughter's husband without anyone's knowledge, certainly not his. It's not that we've not seen him do anything, it's that we've seen him do and not do all the wrong things. No way they can change this character over to a person of consequence next season. Not even to a buffoon of consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Porno Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 House Lannister is not broke, it just doesn't have an unlimited supply of gold anymore.Why the hell would they have added the 'House Lannister is broke' story, if they wanted to keep the 'Cersei is stupid and cannot rule' story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignorant Bog Woman Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 While we're on the subject of Mace, I too am disappointed. The actor is a catch, so it bothers me that they're not taking advantage of him like they did with Dance. This is, sadly, another case of the writers simplifying a character for the audience. Yes, he was a bit of an oaf in the books, but it wasn't some overbearing defining quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I say the Lannisters are broke. They can't afford to pay the Crown's debts to the Iron Bank - that's what they need the Tyrells for. 'Broke' means that you can no longer pay the stuff you are supposed to be paying, and that's the case with the Lannisters. It does not help that no member of the family tries to save any money throughout the whole show. They just throw away gold to make it appear they had still unlimited. Such a behavior should eat up any reserves you still have rather quickly, especially since no Lannister but Tywin seems to have known that they should not behave as if they still owned the world and all the gold in it. According to the show, Tywin brought one of the three smiths from Volantis to KL who can still rework Valyrian steel. This must have been very costly... Anyway, I think we can all agree that this Mace is both a huge waste of time. Any scene he has been in so far was a complete waste of time, even the goblet scene in episode 2, since that did not lead to anything. It's a very bad sign that this guy continues to torment us on the show in season 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go joff go Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Eh it's way too premature to decide what kind of character mace is going to be. His behavior doesn't matter until tywin dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Eh it's way too premature to decide what kind of character mace is going to be. His behavior doesn't matter until tywin dies. ^This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCrannogman Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCrannogman Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Ran is right. BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleRickon Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Does the show really need a competent Mace? And while certainly his character has been changed, I don't see his impact on the viewer as much different. Olenna called him Lord Oaf of Highgarden IIRC. That's pure comical relief. Only that talking about someone isn't what looks good on screen, so they have him act out what (emotion-wise) we read about him in the books. It also kind of shows that the small council is where the big guys play, and if you don't match up to their game, you get under the wheels. If they only show competent people on it, there is no contrast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I get the impression in the books that Mace knows he isn't that great but takes care to surround himself with vastly more competent people (Tarly, Rowan, Redwyne etc). This is an area where the show suffers a little bit, by not including those minor characters who help prop up the major ones. At the very least I thought we'd get Randyll Tarly on board, given his connection to Sam and the fact he's been name-checked a couple of times in the last season or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I have always taken Mace Tyrell as a buffoon, but not the weak and timid variety he is in the television adaption. They have aggrandized Tywin Lannister at the expense of the Tyrells, when in fact Mace Tyrell is just as powerful as he is, if not more so -- especially in the aftermath of the War of the Five Kings, given the heavy losses the Lannisters suffered in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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