So, Tyrion is a Lannister… But, Why?

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

Interesting connection there, although the connection to “layne” could be also be seen simply as A(layne) being Sansa’s present disguise, or “hiding place.”

Yes, but there is a particular "stone" analogy connected to Winterfell that has captured my interest... (see this post, if interested)... and Littlefinger's name (Baelish), as well as his particularly strong and recurring connection to apple metaphors, makes Sansa's storyline a very intriguing fit.

I should have spelled it "lain." Here's the wiktionary entry that piqued my interest:

Etymology 2

From Old Norse løyna (“to conceal”) ( = Old English līġnan), from Proto-Germanic *laugnā (“secrecy”).

Verb

lain (third-person singular simple present lains, present participle laining, simple past and past participle lained)

1. (obsolete) To conceal, keep quiet about. [14th-19th c.]  

I like the idea of Sansa's narrative arc providing a (if not "the") fulfillment of what increasing appears to be the central prophetic mystery of the story: "the Dragon that was Promised" / Azor Ahai. As over-analyzed as these books are on these boards, I think it would still surprise a lot of folks to see answers coming from Sansa's POV.

Also - and your cyvasse thread is part of what got me thinking about this - but I'm warming to the idea that Tyrion and Littlefinger may be the primary, most significant players in the overall Game of Thrones. And to the extent that's true, Sansa figures to play a critical role in the final political outcome(s).

ETA - Comments re: Stone and Apple metaphors, above.

[Slayer of Lies]

GRRM says you don't have to have Targ blood to ride a dragon. Though if you're not a Targ you might need to be a Warg. ;)

And yes, it would make sense for that to mean there are three remaining Targ descendants. I'm just leaning toward a Nettles-like thing (and if we're going for total parallels, either Missendei or Arya for the rider in that case).

GRRM said “the third [head] will not necessarily be Targaryen,” not that they do or don’t require Targ blood. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, if A+J=T is true, Tyrion would be a Targ bastard w/ the last name of Hill (a la Hugor Hill, one of his nicknames presented in ADWD, and a twist of “technicality” on what GRRM presented in his reader-reported quote).

As for Nettles, it is not presently proven whether she had Targ blood or not, and I believe GRRM is leaving this intentionally ambiguous to leave as many doors open as possible…

In any case, there’s nothing to preclude your idea from coming true instead. I just wanted to point out the above, since GRRM’s reader-reported quote gets thrown around so often, and we can’t necessarily validate its authenticity (unless someone is aware of a "better" quote that I may have missed).

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I take that SSM quote to mean that you don't have to be a Targ, and thus don't have to have Targaryen blood. Of course GRRM is well-known for being ambiguous with these things.

I'd love to see Tyrion on a dragon whether he's a Targ or not.

[Slayer of Lies]

I like the idea of Sansa's narrative arc providing a (if not "the") fulfillment of what increasing appears to be the central prophetic mystery of the story: "the Dragon that was Promised" / Azor Ahai. As over-analyzed as these books are on these boards, I think it would still surprise a lot of folks to see answers coming from Sansa's POV.

Also - and your cyvasse thread is part of what got me thinking about this - but I'm warming to the idea that Tyrion and Littlefinger may be the primary, most significant players in the overall Game of Thrones. And to the extent that's true, Sansa figures to play a critical role in the final political outcome(s).

Interesting stuff as always, Snow!

To address a portion of your post: with Tyrion's arc having touched so many characters already in prior novels, it feels like a re-visitation of at least some of those characters is “necessary,” could serve to cinch certain storylines up, or would at least go over well with many readers.

It will be interesting how many of them GRRM makes time for Tyrion to visit again… Some that come to mind are: Jon Snow, Sansa, LF, Varys, Illyrio, Jaime & Cersei.

And then there are the characters he hasn’t met yet (or seen lately) that feel somewhat critical too, such as Dany and Barristan… Tysha… possibly Victarion…

Nonetheless, if I were to crop the “reunion list” down myself, I might remove Illyrio, Victarion and probably Cersei, but it seems the series could benefit from a perpetually-travelling Tyrion who reconvenes with at least Jon, Sansa, LF, Varys and Jaime (sometime after meeting up with Dany and Barristan, with Tysha sprinkled in at some point).

That’d be a lot of ground to cover, but if you think about where each relationship was “left off,” a case could be built pretty easily for quite a few Tyrion reunions…

…which lends credence – from a different angle – to the notion of Tyrion ending up on dragonback for at least one leg of the journey. Say, from Essos to the Vale, from the Vale to the Wall, etc., etc.

(Once again, I find myself baffled that these forums lack a dragon emoticon.)

I'd love to see Tyrion on a dragon whether he's a Targ or not.

See above parenthetical agreement.

[Sarah Lannister]

If Hot Pie is revealed as a secret Targaryen, and one day rule House Targaryen, he should change their words to "More Fire, More Pie." Meatpie would be his dragon's name.

I would much more prefer this than to Jon Targaryen....

[chrisdaw]

Tyrion being a Targ is central to his identity crisis as foreshadowed in his two headed dream. Lannister or Targ, Tywin's son or Aerys's, he will have to decide.

[exigez]

I've read a lot into this theory, and reread AGOT just to see stuff in their context, and I have to admit it's very tempting.

BUT:

1. If Tyrion's eye was purple, he would probably notice this himself...

2. I have a sense that Tyrion being a Targ might have been an idea GRRM had but abandoned after a while, because in the later books there are practically no 'real' pieces of info that continues this line.

3. GRRM would have emphasized a mystery around Tyrion's parentage a lot more if that was the case, just like he did with Jon.

4. If Jon is a Targ (which s more convincing), GRRM wont pull the same trick twice.

5. Tomman's hair is described the same as Tyrion's. And we can go into Jamie and Cersei being Targs, but than everybody is a Targ and everything gets a little bit ridiculous.

6. In the novella 'The Princess and The Queen' there is an interesting part about the Seeds. GRRM implies in it that nobody really knows if you need Targ blood to ride a dragon (the characters in play all believed it, but the subtext is very plain) and if you look at the Brown Girl's tale, he practically confirms this and tells us that she was probably more clever than Targ (like Tyrion). And as I see it, since Tyrion known the history better than most, he will try to employ the same tactic as the brown girl to tame a dragon.

7. The only thing that I can't seem to dismiss in this theory is the burnt bacon, which is strange of GRRM to mention, but then again can still only mean he likes his bacon burnt.

8. Tywin's treatment of Tyrion is just what it is. Tywin resents Tyrion for his love of whores and fears his house reputation because he is a dwarf. It fits the character perfectly. No need to add any monkey business between Joanna and Aerys to explain why Tywin hates his son.

I actually think Tyrion got it wrong and it isnt him being a dwarf that Tywin resents, but the deal with the whores. Tywin does think Tyrion is an able man and sends him to King's Landing, but forbids him to bring Shae. So being a dwarf is something that Tywin believes will hurt the Lanister reputation, but he doesn't really believe it makes Tyrion a lesser man. Like Tyrion, Tywin is a hard man, not an ignorant one.

I just don't think Tyrion being a Targ is interesting, and I certainly don't think it will bring Tyrion to the "Good Guy's" side, since there are no good or bad sides in this story. Mel fighting the Others does not make her or her religion good.

Another thought: he might be Targ but we will probably never know, cuz there is no other character alive that can confirm this (Baristan might not know anything about Aerys and Joana). So it doesn't really matter.

The important thing is, that just as GRRM said, you don't have to be a Targ to ride a dragon. You need to be clever :)

[melx]

he is raised as Lannister,so he thinks and acts as one

is he or not ?

50/50 for me

[Ramsay Gimp]

Targaryens here, Targaryens there, Targaryens everywhere!!

The revelation of Tyrion as a Targaryen would do nothing but vindicate Tywin. "You're no son of mine." You really want him to have been right about Tyrion all along?

[Boarsbane]

You really want him to have been right about Tyrion all along?

Yes

[Ser Charles of Rosehaven]

Mr. Slayer of lies I will explain you what happened. When Daddy Lion and Mommy Lion felt bored the decided to lock themselves in their chambers, f**cked hard and after 9 months tyrion was conceived

[Ramsay Gimp]

Yes

Well to each his own I guess. I think Tywin is much more interesting if his fatal weakness is an irrational hatred of his dwarf son. But if Tyrion is not his son, and Tywin's vitriol results from him suspecting as much, than it isn't really irrational or a weakness on his part. It turns Aerys into the root cause of Tywin and Tyrion's enmity, which is just lame.