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Stubby

R+L=J v 75

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Daenerys isn't even close to Westeros for now, and it might take her the next full book to get there (and then she's actually moved quite a bit as I'm rereading Dany's Storm bits in preparation for Dance, and there's only 6 of hers), so if Dany and Jon ever meet it'll be really late into book 7 or even earlier in book 8, I think.

Nope not even close, but I am not talking about the Jon being stabbed thing. When isn't Jons life at risk? No this is down the road and I have no clue when, though it seems the text may suggest the move to be quick but the resolution of Essos I have nothing on.

It's not like a theory or anything I was just connection parallels and symbolism. Like maybe I start with Rhaegar, and that's a connection. Then I look for any obvious symbolism or parallel within that connection. I have no plan or idea for it, just wanted to see what connected, the more I looked the more I found. I went and found more today. I guess if there is a theme it's what Ned said to Arya about the sun and the moon. Not much else I can say because I didn't write much it's mostly quotes and comparing them. Hey that's blue, cold, dead, hard and rotting, and that's blue, cold, dead hard and rotting, one is undead one is undying. There that's a parallel and that's also symbolic. The heart above the table the heart of winter, one obscure and one obvious. Both relate to cold, rotting, hard, blue, undead things, or undying things. That's it that's the connection, that's the discussion of it. It can be taken further, but that's more writing and I didn't feel like doing it.

Don't want to try and convince anyone of anything, just studying a certain aspect of the text. Whatever conclusions people want to have, is totally their business.

8 books? You know when he stops writing and the books are done, some people are going to need an intervention.

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Don't want to try and convince anyone of anything, just studying a certain aspect of the text. Whatever conclusions people want to have, is totally their business.

8 books? You know when he stops writing and the books are done, some people are going to need an intervention.

Please link here if you decide to post this, I'm very interested.

Also-- an intervention? If it goes eight books I may need a nursing home :p

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SC, how about early life parallels. I am thinking of fleeing, house with a red door, etc.


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Please link here if you decide to post this, I'm very interested.

Also-- an intervention? If it goes eight books I may need a nursing home :p

Or as my grandmother use to call them, a "nervous hospital. "

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Please link here if you decide to post this, I'm very interested.

Also-- an intervention? If it goes eight books I may need a nursing home :p

I will, but I will give you a teaser. You may be wondering something. Dany and the moon, well there is plenty of that right? But the symbolism or parallel of Jon and the sun seems rather absent. Where might that reference be? Cause I do have it and I omitted it, because well... it's kind of really interesting, and I wanted to save it because it has major implications, not just about Jon and Dany. It's got something special, not trying to be melodramatic, but it blew my mind. It took me almost an hour, and then I realized something, and thought but that's not possible. You will look at it and go yeah ok, that's pretty damn good symbolism, but then it will hit you like a ton of bricks.

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SC, how about early life parallels. I am thinking of fleeing, house with a red door, etc.

Well those are some well known parallels, I mean the fleeing and the hiding. I am going to try and do a list of that stuff. Darry and Ned both fill a similar roll, and interesting enough what is said about Darry could just as easily be applied to Ned.

The red door is coming though it's not really about the door. I am working on something involving that, that is part of a bigger parallel. You know they are different people with different personalities, and different upbringings. But that's why I like that quote by Eddard, and when Martin wrote that I am pretty sure he knew he was writing some sun and moon themes for other people, even if you just consider Drogo and Dany. It's hard to do the past because we don't have much dialogue from the past, so I am kind of just going with what I come across. I started on this thing by accident. I was looking something up and I came across Selmy the White Shadow and I thought wait isn't Ghost the white shadow? Been following my nose ever sense.

One thing from the past but I don't really know if it works, and it's just off the top of my head. Both Dany and Jon got sort of forced from their homes, though Jon wanted to leave. It's not really something I would go with though, it's just not tight enough for what I am looking for. The only reason I am actually doing this is because I just think it's interesting and want to have a discussion of this topic from the books. Cause I can't read another f****** "Is Jon dead?" Jon is Dead! Jon Died. I think Jon is dead thread." Or lets talk about the greatness of Stannis's armpit hairs, or lets hate a character, I hate this character, this character needs to be hated, and the "screw the text I made this up in my head, so it must be right" attitude that's been floating around the forum of late. The first post on 75 last night was just that, and thank god it got yanked.

Nothing against anyone but if their are 3 Jon is dead threads on page one of general, don't start a damn 4th one.

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Well those are some well known parallels, I mean the fleeing and the hiding. I am going to try and do a list of that stuff. Darry and Ned both fill a similar roll, and interesting enough what is said about Darry could just as easily be applied to Ned.

The red door is coming though it's not really about the door. I am working on something involving that, that is part of a bigger parallel. You know they are different people with different personalities, and different upbringings. But that's why I like that quote by Eddard, and when Martin wrote that I am pretty sure he knew he was writing some sun and moon themes for other people, even if you just consider Drogo and Dany. It's hard to do the past because we don't have much dialogue from the past, so I am kind of just going with what I come across. I started on this thing by accident. I was looking something up and I came across Selmy the White Shadow and I thought wait isn't Ghost the white shadow? Been following my nose ever sense.

One thing from the past but I don't really know if it works, and it's just off the top of my head. Both Dany and Jon got sort of forced from their homes, though Jon wanted to leave. It's not really something I would go with though, it's just not tight enough for what I am looking for. The only reason I am actually doing this is because I just think it's interesting and want to have a discussion of this topic from the books. Cause I can't read another f****** "Is Jon dead?" Jon is Dead! Jon Died. I think Jon is dead thread." Or lets talk about the greatness of Stannis's armpit hairs, or lets hate a character, I hate this character, this character needs to be hated, and the "screw the text I made this up in my head, so it must be right" attitude that's been floating around the forum of late. The first post on 75 last night was just that, and thank god it got yanked.

Nothing against anyone but if their are 3 Jon is dead threads on page one of general, don't start a damn 4th one.

I hope that parallel is better stuff than the Corn Code. That one felt like an epicyclic theory. Still, looking forward to what you found. Can you give a small teaser?

I absolutely share your sentiment on non-analytic threads. Some of them may seem fun, but most are really just what my English teacher would have called "wanking" :cool4:

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Heh. I said 8 books because we've kind of seen in the past that he's really not great with guessing work. I believe it was so that he wanted to end Dance with Daenerys landing in Westeros, but since she's still quite a few chapters away (meaning her own upcoming Dothraki storyline + the whole battle in Meereen, which is already multiple chapters pre-battle), it's going to take quite a while still. If you then take into account the WF battle and Aegon getting a SE chapter where first there was none, there's not going to be much Jon in the first half or 2/3rd of the book. :crying:



On the bright side, that'll give him plenty of time to heal on his own. :smug: Or else. :tantrum:


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just as long as it has sun and warmth! :thumbsup:

:agree: I'm going to be very sad if I have to watch the St. Patricks Day parade in the snow. :bawl:

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Heh. I said 8 books because we've kind of seen in the past that he's really not great with guessing work. I believe it was so that he wanted to end Dance with Daenerys landing in Westeros, but since she's still quite a few chapters away (meaning her own upcoming Dothraki storyline + the whole battle in Meereen, which is already multiple chapters pre-battle), it's going to take quite a while still. If you then take into account the WF battle and Aegon getting a SE chapter where first there was none, there's not going to be much Jon in the first half or 2/3rd of the book. :crying:

On the bright side, that'll give him plenty of time to heal on his own. :smug: Or else. :tantrum:

:mellow: I really hope GRRM uses this tactic:

" and five years later, the Mother of dragons has destroyed all in her wake. Hearing the call of her Westerosi children, she turns her dragons towards KL. Meanwhile, back at the Wall............"

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Section one is up, still doing section two and 3. It's called the Sun and the Moon. There is a teaser for section 3 in there. But I'll give you a clue, The Green Grace and the Grace in Green, The Harpy parallel.



http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/105591-the-sun-and-the-moon-a-look-at-the-parallels-and-symbolisim-of-jon-and-dany/


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I hope that parallel is better stuff than the Corn Code. That one felt like an epicyclic theory. Still, looking forward to what you found. Can you give a small teaser?

I absolutely share your sentiment on non-analytic threads. Some of them may seem fun, but most are really just what my English teacher would have called "wanking" :cool4:

Come on that wasn't nice about the corn code, it was really popular for awhile. My mistake, but still I paid the price for that already. But no this is not like that, I am not trying to make any leaps, just looking at the text. Plus it's less than half as long, so bonus. Also any insight from readers is welcome, and people can draw there own conclusions. I have my own, but that is there to talk about, maybe I am right maybe I am wrong but that is what the discussion is for. There are a lot of ways to look at this, and talk about it. Plus it's mostly just the text, I am just hoping it will be fun and intresting.

Didn't you do the theory on Mels vision in Dance 31? That had a lot to do with pointing me in this direction, I never would of thought about the shifting shadow if I had not read that.

The wanking threads is what they should be called. "This is Crackpot", "no this wanking and and the OP is a bus wanker." Thank you inbetweeners.

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Come on that wasn't nice about the corn code, it was really popular for awhile.

Corn code was and is genius. Grrm keeps doing it subconsciently and just hasn't noticed it yet.

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@corbon It would not be polite to lay anything in a woman's lap, even by today's standards. Rhaegar had options:

  1. Let Lyanna pluck it from the end of the lance

Let one of her friends pluck it from the end of the lance

Lay the crown at her feet (I like this one myself)

I do not understand where you might get the idea it would be 'rude' to lay it in her lap - then or now? She's no doubt sitting in a stand, probably hands clasped in her lap (you understand the pose, whether or not its 100% accurate) and not expecting to receive it. It is almost literally the only way he could possibly give it to her 9and its actually going to her hands, more than her lap). She's not expecting to pluck it, nor are her friends (and even if they were I cannot see the delivery of such an honour being 'stolen' by another taking it and passing it to her), and laying it at her feet isn't possible in a stand.

What he can do is easily and comfortably lower the lance and withdraw it so that the crown is placed in her lap.

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I do not understand where you might get the idea it would be 'rude' to lay it in her lap - then or now? She's no doubt sitting in a stand, probably hands clasped in her lap (you understand the pose, whether or not its 100% accurate) and not expecting to receive it. It is almost literally the only way he could possibly give it to her 9and its actually going to her hands, more than her lap). She's not expecting to pluck it, nor are her friends (and even if they were I cannot see the delivery of such an honour being 'stolen' by another taking it and passing it to her), and laying it at her feet isn't possible in a stand.

What he can do is easily and comfortably lower the lance and withdraw it so that the crown is placed in her lap.

Plus it has the added sexual/reproduction symbolism if he places the wreath in her lap.

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