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Stubby

R+L=J v 75

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Plus it has the added sexual/reproduction symbolism if he places the wreath in her lap.

And don't forget the symbolism of the "lance." :)

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And don't forget the symbolism of the "lance." :)

Oh gosh I was just about to post that! The lance piercing the wreath in fact :leer:

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So many dirty thoughts here...

But hey, that's why I like you (apart from myriad other things) :leer:

:lol: Definitely one of the many reasons I like it here so much :grouphug:

(Checks to see if we are still on version 69.)

It would beat the previous threads. :P

I think (with the exception of the extremely odd 73 & 74) v69 was the last thread that didn't take a turn for the :leer:

We seem to have taken permanent inspiration :p

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And don't forget the symbolism of the "lance." :)

I was going to go there, too. . . and then thought. . .

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Oh gosh I was just about to post that! The lance piercing the wreath in fact :leer:

I was going to go there, too. . . and then thought. . .

I'm proud to be in such elegantly "naughty" company. :bowdown:

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And don't forget the symbolism of the "lance." :)

Yeah I guess he wanted to make sure she was flowered by his lance. But wait doesn't that mean Ned actually deflowered her? Ewwww. Oh and remember the imagery with his hand and the pricking and the..., oh, oh, bad, so bad. Man you all are messed up, look what you made me write. 5 bucks says Alia is at least on her third glass of wine, or was.

Let that Ned imagery sink into your heads a little bit, then decide how badly your about to get hammered to make it go away.

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Corn code was and is genius. Grrm keeps doing it subconsciently and just hasn't noticed it yet.

You're damn right it was!

Though in truth Ran was right I was over analyzing the rule of three. Not my fault Martin kills the shit out of everything in sight. The Guy from the Vale is almost right, but I think the word he was looking for was autistic, cause I pretty much went rain man on that thread. "Three, three is bad, definitely bad." You can still use the rule of three to locate foreshadowing which is one of it's main purposes.

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Plus it has the added sexual/reproduction symbolism if he places the wreath in her lap.

Gahhh!

Thats all fine and dandy for the literary over-analysis by the readers, but I'm talking the practical reality here. If you've just won the tourney and are on something of an emotional and physical high you aren't, at least for most people, busy thinking about the deep seated potential (whether it exists in your culture or not) symbolism of parts of your actions, you are thinking about the bigger picture of who to give it to. Its not "I must avoid (or not) the sexual overtones of laying the crown into a woman's lap with my lance as I honour her" (which frankly I don't find real, just over-literary-ising everything), its "I will honour this woman, for she is worthy" <award crown to her by the only convenient, and normal, mechanism>.

The claim has been made that it was an impolite action.

I'm not seeing it. Nor having it explained in real terms, just literary waffle and jokes. In fact, I think the claim itself is wierd in real terms (no offense MtnLion) and it seems to me a perfect example of literary analysis that has lost the connection to reality?

Can anyone actually explain why it is impolite and why/how another method should have been used? Is this some specifically referenced medieval thing found in the historical literature? Or just something someone made a smutty connection to that became popular? Or of course, somewhere else/in between.

MtnLion tried (thanks) but I found all three of his alternatives flawed and simply unnecessary, since the whole concept of "putting something in a womans lap is sexual and smutty" is to me quite ridiculous. It appears to me to be a respectful and almost reverent action, nothing to do with sexuality at all. Indeed, one of the precursors to my marriage was a ceremony where both bride and groom bowed their heads at different times in all four parent's laps in a very solemn, reverent and respectful ceremony (the sexual symbolism came later with egg crushing etc.) And the same is often seen in judaic and similar early cultures, head in laps or similar to honour an elder and receive a blessing, not just my wife's SE asian culture.

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Gahhh!

Thats all fine and dandy for the literary over-analysis by the readers, but I'm talking the practical reality here. If you've just won the tourney and are on something of an emotional and physical high you aren't, at least for most people, busy thinking about the deep seated potential (whether it exists in your culture or not) symbolism of parts of your actions, you are thinking about the bigger picture of who to give it to. Its not "I must avoid (or not) the sexual overtones of laying the crown into a woman's lap with my lance as I honour her" (which frankly I don't find real, just over-literary-ising everything), its "I will honour this woman, for she is worthy" <award crown to her by the only convenient, and normal, mechanism>.

The claim has been made that it was an impolite action.

I'm not seeing it. Nor having it explained in real terms, just literary waffle and jokes. In fact, I think the claim itself is wierd in real terms (no offense MtnLion) and it seems to me a perfect example of literary analysis that has lost the connection to reality?

Can anyone actually explain why it is impolite and why/how another method should have been used? Is this some specifically referenced medieval thing found in the historical literature? Or just something someone made a smutty connection to that became popular? Or of course, somewhere else/in between.

MtnLion tried (thanks) but I found all three of his alternatives flawed and simply unnecessary, since the whole concept of "putting something in a womans lap is sexual and smutty" is to me quite ridiculous. It appears to me to be a respectful and almost reverent action, nothing to do with sexuality at all. Indeed, one of the precursors to my marriage was a ceremony where both bride and groom bowed their heads at different times in all four parent's laps in a very solemn, reverent and respectful ceremony (the sexual symbolism came later with egg crushing etc.) And the same is often seen in judaic and similar early cultures, head in laps or similar to honour an elder and receive a blessing, not just my wife's SE asian culture.

Fine and dandy, sometimes a sword is just a sword. Your ceremony sounds rather lovely, actually.

Allow me to tell a very ordinary story. I promise, it doesn't involve any real swords. Once, a woman's family went to a fancy restaurant for a celebratory dinner. A woman's husband did not immediately put his napkin in his lap. When the pretty hostess saw it, she offered, quite professionally, to place it in his lap. He could have cared less about slipping up on the etiquette, but was extremely uncomfortable and embarrassed by her being anywhere near his lap. He blurted out, "No, I'll do it myself!" snatched it out of her hands and turned about sixteen shades of red.

Also, back when I was in school and attended formal dances, our dates always struggled to find appropriate ways to pin corsages on our dresses. They were quite relieved when the kind that goes on the wrist became popular. So perhaps it is a cultural perspective.

ETA: of course, you make me think of another point, which is that not everything sexual need be smutty :) Like the symbolic bowing of heads in the laps of the people who gave you life, it can be reverent, too.

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Yeah I guess he wanted to make sure she was flowered by his lance. But wait doesn't that mean Ned actually deflowered her? Ewwww. Oh and remember the imagery with his hand and the pricking and the..., oh, oh, bad, so bad. Man you all are messed up, look what you made me write. 5 bucks says Alia is at least on her third glass of wine, or was.

Let that Ned imagery sink into your heads a little bit, then decide how badly your about to get hammered to make it go away.

Been there. Was trying to avoid it this time around.

That's going to require quite a bit of getting . . . oh, nevermind. Now I'm just proving Corbin's point.

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Gahhh!

Thats all fine and dandy for the literary over-analysis by the readers, but I'm talking the practical reality here. If you've just won the tourney and are on something of an emotional and physical high you aren't, at least for most people, busy thinking about the deep seated potential (whether it exists in your culture or not) symbolism of parts of your actions, you are thinking about the bigger picture of who to give it to. Its not "I must avoid (or not) the sexual overtones of laying the crown into a woman's lap with my lance as I honour her" (which frankly I don't find real, just over-literary-ising everything), its "I will honour this woman, for she is worthy" <award crown to her by the only convenient, and normal, mechanism>.

The claim has been made that it was an impolite action.

I'm not seeing it. Nor having it explained in real terms, just literary waffle and jokes. In fact, I think the claim itself is wierd in real terms (no offense MtnLion) and it seems to me a perfect example of literary analysis that has lost the connection to reality?

Can anyone actually explain why it is impolite and why/how another method should have been used? Is this some specifically referenced medieval thing found in the historical literature? Or just something someone made a smutty connection to that became popular? Or of course, somewhere else/in between.

MtnLion tried (thanks) but I found all three of his alternatives flawed and simply unnecessary, since the whole concept of "putting something in a womans lap is sexual and smutty" is to me quite ridiculous. It appears to me to be a respectful and almost reverent action, nothing to do with sexuality at all. Indeed, one of the precursors to my marriage was a ceremony where both bride and groom bowed their heads at different times in all four parent's laps in a very solemn, reverent and respectful ceremony (the sexual symbolism came later with egg crushing etc.) And the same is often seen in judaic and similar early cultures, head in laps or similar to honour an elder and receive a blessing, not just my wife's SE asian culture.

Ok, the practical reality of the 5000 - 6000 page fantasy series, written by a man who coined the term fat pink mast. Martins a bit of a perv and something you may want to get used to is imagery, metaphors and symbolism within fiction, they are standard literary devices employed by writers. I mean the title of the series is a giant multi layered metaphor. Do you think the books are about a literal song? Do you think the Hound is an actual dog? Look when you got fever dreamed flashbacks with rose petal storms you are getting into serious imagery there. It's hard to imagine no imagery in a series when everyone has a sigil and house words. Is Dany an actual dragon?

Interpret however you like that's part of the fun of reading, but trying to be to literal with books tends to be more detrimental than analyzing them. Besides I think mostly they were having a bit of fun, as the imagery does not really matter when taken into account with the common belief that floats around about those two. You know there is a big difference between literary interpretation and literal interpretation? Well now you know and knowing is half the battle, Yo Joe!

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