Small Questions v 10026

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Hhhm.. Maybe. Although a popular theory is that the closer men get to dragons, the faster their facial hair grow. :cool4:

Hahaha, that one I had never heard before :) Awesome..

[aryagonnakill#2]

Speaking about Tywin and Joanna's marriage... Tywin hated how "weak" Tytos was, weak in the sense that he let things happen, he wanted to please everyone (like marrying Genna to Emmon Frey). But would it ever have occured to Tywin that this was also the reason he was allowed to marry Joanna (the love match)? Had Tytos been like Tywin, he would have ordered a marriage for Tywin (likeTywin himself did for Cersei, and was doing when Jaime took the white). Tywin got to marry the woman he loved, because his father allowed it. But had Tytos been the strong man Tywin wanted him to be, it most likely never would have happened.

Ah, dear irony.

To also fall back on Gared from yesterday... During the Hand's tourney in 298 AC, Sansa mentions how the Royce's visited Winterfell 2 years past, when Waymar went to take the black. From Winterfell to Castle Black takes about 3 weeks, and the Royces stayed at Winterfell a fortnight. It's even possible the Rocyes stopped at Last Heart before going to the Wall (since they would have passed it anyway), prolonging their trip to the Wall. All together, from the moment the Royces arrived at Winterfell, until the moment the reached the Wall, most likely some 2 months passed. Sansa makes the claim somewhat late in the year (though it won't exactly be 2 years past, it gives a general idea). Gared was beheaded about half a year before.

When Waymar and Will die, Waymar has been at the Wall almost half a year.

2 years ago - half a year = 1,5 year before Gared got beheaded, the Royces visited Winterfell.

± 3 months after the visit, Waymar arrived at Castle Black and took the black. This leaves 1,25 year.

Six months after taking the black (1,25 - 0,5 = 0,75 year) Waymar died.

Am I wrong to say that Gared managed to stay undetected for roughly 6 to 9 months?

Possible that he stayed undetected, possible grrm screwed up the timeline, but I find it interesting/ a stretch that Mormont would still be sending out search parties 6 to 9 months later.

[yolkboy]

I've seen it said that in Westeros, the Faith of the Seven teaches that the Andals received this gift (IRON WORKING) from the Smith in a vision. It's in the wiki. (no citation)

I've also seen it said the warrior gave the vision.

Does this have any basis? Ive looked at the text, cant find. Just wondering if there was an obscure source or something???

[HexMachina]

Yolkboy, i do not have the exact quote, but I happen.to know it comes from Tyrion and Illyrio's journey to meet Haldon and Rolly. When they discuss Hugor Hill and the Andal land of origin

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Do you mean this passage?

Another passage from The Seven-Pointed Star came back to him. “The Maid brought him forth a girl as supple as a willow with eyes like deep blue pools, and Hugor declared that he would have her for his bride. So the Mother made her fertile, and the Crone foretold that she would bear the king four-and-forty mighty sons. The Warrior gave strength to their arms, whilst the Smith wrought for each a suit of iron plates.”

“Your Smith must have been Rhoynish,” Illyrio quipped. “The Andals learned the art of working iron from the Rhoynar who dwelt along the river. This is known.”

“Not by our septons.”

[Mychel_Redfort]

Either this is a mistake, or it is meant to show us how little the Frey's care for their half-siblings (and they don't, this is a thing expressed on several occasions, even by Frey's themselves)

I would go for the mistake, because I find the italicized 'his' curious. Looks like GRRM changed his plans for Aegon Frey between aCoK and aSoS.

And for how long Gared had been a deserter, I've tried to do the math and found between 9 and 12 months, just a little more than what you've found. In any case, thanks for having pointed out why the prologue of aGoT happened in 297, something I often saw mentioned on the boards without understanding why !

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Possible that he stayed undetected, possible grrm screwed up the timeline, but I find it interesting/ a stretch that Mormont would still be sending out search parties 6 to 9 months later.

Thinking about this some more.. Benjen had been missing for more than 6 months and Mormont was still sending out parties looking for him.

It is stated that Benjen has been missing for almost half a year when the brothers learn about King Robert's death. When they learn at the Wall about how Barristan Selmy was fired (sometime after Robert's death, during Joff's first day at court), another searching party returns from looking for Benjen.. The 6 months have passed by now.

[yolkboy]

Yolkboy, i do not have the exact quote, but I happen.to know it comes from Tyrion and Illyrio's journey to meet Haldon and Rolly. When they discuss Hugor Hill and the Andal land of origin

Oh yeah, but where does this notion it came from visions come from? Just an assumption?

i saw that septons quote with Illyrio, I just wondered if it was concrete fact that the smith was thought to have sent visions.

(& Thanks guys.)

Oh BTW

there's a missing SSM

December 01, 2001

Over the Fireplace with George R. R. Martin

[Note: The precise date, beyond December 2001, is unknown.]

http://www.silklantern.com/feature.php?mode=view&feature=12

anyone have it on file? Its the only one ive seen that seems irretrievable.

[HexMachina]

Oh yeah, but where does this notion it came from visions come from? Just an assumption?

i saw that septons quote with Illyrio, I just wondered if it was concrete fact that the smith was thought to have sent visions.

(& Thanks guys.)

Oh BTW

there's a missing SSM

December 01, 2001

Over the Fireplace with George R. R. Martin

[Note: The precise date, beyond December 2001, is unknown.]

http://www.silklantern.com/feature.php?mode=view&feature=12

anyone have it on file? Its the only one ive seen that seems irretrievable.

It was pribably about the Green Men :lol: :leaving: :p

[Chatty Duelist]

Did Euron sexually abuse Aeron?

[Fragile Bird]

Did Euron sexually abuse Aeron?

Another topic with a few threads. :)

I'd say the jury is very divided. Aeron has nightmares about the squeaking of a hinged door at night, and many people have commented that so very often when a man recounts stories about being sexually abused, they talk about being in bed, at night, in the dark, fearfully waiting for the sound that means their abuser is coming to their bed. The sound of footsteps on the stairs, a board squeaking in the hallway, and, indeed, the sound of a door opening.

I personally believe he was abused.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Did Euron sexually abuse Aeron?

There is no proof yet, but I do believe he did.

The rusted iron hinge certainly accompanies a frightening memory for Aeron. That most of the mentions come shortly after or before the thought or mentioning of Euron, suggests more.

As a thousand voices shouted out his brother’s name, all he could hear was the scream of a rusted iron hinge.

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

Tyrion and Tysha were happily married... Then along came Tywin...

But then Tywin and Johanna were happily married... Then along came Tyrion

[mindchap]

For fun: How in the hell did Barristan grow a ZZ Top beard in 1 year?

As men get older it grows faster, from everywhere south of the forehead, or at least it seems that way. :D (And how is it we have no bearded smilie?!)

Oh yeah, but where does this notion it came from visions come from? Just an assumption?

i saw that septons quote with Illyrio, I just wondered if it was concrete fact that the smith was thought to have sent visions.

(& Thanks guys.)

Oh BTW

there's a missing SSM

December 01, 2001

Over the Fireplace with George R. R. Martin

[Note: The precise date, beyond December 2001, is unknown.]

http://www.silklantern.com/feature.php?mode=view&feature=12

anyone have it on file? Its the only one ive seen that seems irretrievable.

It was pribably about the Green Men :lol: :leaving: :P

Ranuminatti strikes again.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Did Euron sexually abuse Aeron?

Yes, the son of a bitch sexually abused his little brother, probably Urri too.

[Lady of the Wind]

I never understood the title A Dance with Dragons. I can't see how it's relevant to the overall story of the book. The other titles seem rather obvious to me. They all refer to a theme which goes through (almost) all storylines, but I can't see that with Dance. I suppose you could relate it to Dany's and Ageon's storylines, and the storylines connected to them: Selmy, Quentyn, Victarion, JonCon and Tyrion. But I don't see how the title refers to Theon, Jon, Sam, Arya, Sansa, Asha and the rest in Westeros.

So, in short, can someone explain how the title A Dance with Dragons refers to the content of the book?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I never understood the title A Dance with Dragons. I can't see how it's relevant to the overall story of the book. The other titles seem rather obvious to me. They all refer to a theme which goes through (almost) all storylines, but I can't see that with Dance. I suppose you could relate it to Dany's and Ageon's storylines, and the storylines connected to them: Selmy, Quentyn, Victarion, JonCon and Tyrion. But I don't see how the title refers to Theon, Jon, Sam, Arya, Sansa, Asha and the rest in Westeros.

So, in short, can someone explain how the title A Dance with Dragons refers to the content of the book?

This title has a deeper meaning than it might seem at first.

In the 5th book, we have 4 dragons maximum: Dany, Aegon, Jon and Bloodraven. You might even want to add Aemon, who dies in aFfC, but since that story line happens at the same time as aDwD, he could be counted.

So in the 5th book, we not only have Dany (Barristan chapters, Quentyn chapters, a little bit of Tyrion chapters, Victarion chapters), but we also get Aegon (Tyrion, Jon Connington), Bloodraven (Bran) and, depending on whether or not the theory is correct, Jon Snow (Jon chapters, Sam chapters).

Out of these 4 dragons, all of them are involved in some sort of war. Dany is fighting a war in Meereen, trying to get peace there, Aegon is fighting to gain the Iron Throne, invading Westeros in the proces, Bloodraven is preparing Bran for what I can only assume is the upcomming battle against the Others, and Jon is struggeling with the wildlings, the treath of the Others, and of course his own men, who turn against him at the end.

So, instead of dragon fighting dragon (as what happend during the Dance of the Dragons with Rhaenyra and Aegon II, and their direct families), here we have other groups fighting against or for a dragon. They are either fighting Dany, Jon, Bloodraven, or Aegon, hence the title Dance with Dragons.

I think the title refers to the four characters I mentioned above, and their personal struggles.

Like I said, you could also add Maester Aemon as one of the dragons, since he is a Targaryen. He fights a war (sort of) with his old age and his bad health, trying to reach Dany in time. Maester Aemon is the first dragon out of 5 to lose the battle.

The Dragons are all dancing.

[Consigliere]

I never understood the title A Dance with Dragons. I can't see how it's relevant to the overall story of the book. The other titles seem rather obvious to me. They all refer to a theme which goes through (almost) all storylines, but I can't see that with Dance. I suppose you could relate it to Dany's and Ageon's storylines, and the storylines connected to them: Selmy, Quentyn, Victarion, JonCon and Tyrion. But I don't see how the title refers to Theon, Jon, Sam, Arya, Sansa, Asha and the rest in Westeros.

So, in short, can someone explain how the title A Dance with Dragons refers to the content of the book?

You have more of a focus on literal dragons but also figurative ones - Dany, Jon, Aegon, Bloodraven. All of whom play prominent roles in the book.

Secondly you have our figurative dragons involved in conflicts with others. The title could refer to their personal struggles. Dany is fighting a war in Meereen, Jon is in conflict with the Wildings, factions within the NW and preparing for the threat posed by the Others, BR is teaching Bran to be a Greenseer and Aegon is trying to win the IT.

Another possible interpretation. Apart from Jon, Tyrion is the most prominent PoV character in ADwD. Add in Moqorro's vision about Tyrion being in the center of all the dragons and the title could refer to Tyrion dancing first with Aegon and then with Dany (remember several chapters from Dance had to be pushed forward to Winds). One could interpret this as Tyrion being the "dancer" with dragons.

[Lady of the Wind]

Thanks. I did read the titles the way you describe with Dany and Aegon, just forgot Bloodraven.

It was mainly the Jon connection I didn't get. But if you're right, and it refers to his heritage, does that mean that the title itself can be seen as a sort of "confirmation" that the theroy is true? It sounds a bit far fetched to me, but otherwise there's no connection.

EDIT: Titans Bastard: Yeah, the Tyrion bit I read that way, but I'd forgotten Moqorro's vision, which makes it even clearer.

[mindchap]

Thanks. I did read the titles the way you describe with Dany and Aegon, just forgot Bloodraven.

It was mainly the Jon connection I didn't get. But if you're right, and it refers to his heritage, does that mean that the title itself can be seen as a sort of "confirmation" that the theroy is true? It sounds a bit far fetched to me, but otherwise there's no connection.

Until George says "Yep, that's it" it just adds fuel to the fire. And chances are we won't even get that from him until DoS. :)

edt: And by then the R+L=J thread will have actually reached the same version number as the SQ thread only theirs will be legit.