Suzanna Stormborn Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 PATQ is a crazy story. Which side is everyone on? Which side fought dirtier? And who deserved the throne? OK so my opinion is that Queen Alicent stirred the whole Dance up almost single-handedly. Her son Aegon was happy to let his half-sister Rhaenyra have the IT, as she was named heir by her father the king. Rhaenyra happened to not be at KL the day her father died, she was on Dragonstone giving birth. Queen Alicent basically took it upon herself to declare her son should be king instead, she sent to Aegon who said 'no that's ok, I am not the heir' then Alicent insisted that Rhaenyra would surely kill him and his brothers if she took the throne, at which point Aegon changed his mind. But there was no evidence that Rhaenyra planned to kill her family members if she had been crowned, it was never discussed. All the anger started once Alicent basically lied to get her son on the throne........ So who was right? Who Fought dirtier?Aemond was pretty bad with Vhagar, But Dameon was very uncaring when he let like 100 people die trying to tame the wild dragons. Also the betrayers were pretty nasty to Tumbleton...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Agreed, Alicent caused the whole war. Aegon even wanted Rhaenyra to take the throne initially until his mother polluted his mind.SO I agree the Greens caused the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I agree with you both. The war was actually started by a Hightower and a Cole, not the Targaryens at all. Rhaenyra was definitely right, she was the true heir, "the realms delight", it's a shame what losing her sons, and the war did to her.As for who fought dirtiest, well both sides did really. First Aemond killing Rhaenyra's son, then Blacks countered with Blood and Cheese. I would say it's a draw on who was dirtiest, although the Greens struck first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Blood and Cheese were terrible!!! that was super dirty, Helaena I felt bad for the whole time.I agree that the Greens started it, but the Blacks may have been the more fearsome foe. Especially after Rhaenyras sons started dying, she just lost it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The Greens, although the Blacks were certainly not innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutraven Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The Blacks, Blood and Cheese was by far the dirtiest move in the book. That being said, I'm a Black fan. I'm not sure that Aegon was truly reluctant to take up the crown. The whole book has a level of Green bias and when you look at his reaction to Otto failing at beating the blacks and feeding his sister to his dragon, it doesn't seem that he wanted her to rule over him. I'm assuming the author wanted to paint Aegon as a reluctant king who claimed the crown to protect his family, it makes him seem more likable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The source for Aegon's reluctance to take the crown is, according to Ran who knows the unabridged version, Septon Eustace, a Green loyalist to the core. He is also the one claiming that Rhaenyra bled at her thighs and legs when sitting on the Iron Throne in full armor. Not very trustworthy, that kind of guy.Even more importantly, Aegon acts completely out of character in that first scene when he rejects the crown if you compare the scene to his later behavior that was witnessed by the full court. He has been groomed by his mother to desire the crown and loath his half-sister early on, it appears.But Septon Eustace obviously was aware of Viserys' last will and testament, and that the Greens were de facto usurping the Iron Throne. Thus he surely felt the importance to portray Aegon as more innocent in the actual throne-stealing event rather than to admit that he was eager to seize his sister's throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 ok no one wants to talk about this. lets all go to the 'what can Dany do to make you like her' thread :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The source for Aegon's reluctance to take the crown is, according to Ran who knows the unabridged version, Septon Eustace, a Green loyalist to the core. He is also the one claiming that Rhaenyra bled at her thighs and legs when sitting on the Iron Throne in full armor. Not very trustworthy, that kind of guy. Even more importantly, Aegon acts completely out of character in that first scene when he rejects the crown if you compare the scene to his later behavior that was witnessed by the full court. He has been groomed by his mother to desire the crown and loath his half-sister early on, it appears. But Septon Eustace obviously was aware of Viserys' last will and testament, and that the Greens were de facto usurping the Iron Throne. Thus he surely felt the importance to portray Aegon as more innocent in the actual throne-stealing event rather than to admit that he was eager to seize his sister's throne. I definitely agree with this. I'd say the Greens fought dirtier since they started the whole deal, with what you'd call underhanded tactics and attempting to justify queue jumping, thats not to say the blacks hands are clean, but the Greens have an awful lot to answer for, and it was a green that pushed it right over the edge and past the point of no return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 I definitely agree with this. I'd say the Greens fought dirtier since they started the whole deal, with what you'd call underhanded tactics and attempting to justify queue jumping, thats not to say the blacks hands are clean, but the Greens have an awful lot to answer for, and it was a green that pushed it right over the edge and past the point of no return. You mean Alicent? Or someone else? Also that is interesting what Lord Varys was saying about the narrator being biased for the greens. I definitely felt like a lot of the blame should be laid at Alicents feet instead of Aegon, but that was due to the way the story was told and the way Aegon 'refused' the crown at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutraven Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Thinking about it, Blood and Cheese could have been a massively event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The Greens, Hellicent aka Cersei 1.0, started the whole mess. I am Black supporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 You mean Alicent? Or someone else? Also that is interesting what Lord Varys was saying about the narrator being biased for the greens. I definitely felt like a lot of the blame should be laid at Alicents feet instead of Aegon, but that was due to the way the story was told and the way Aegon 'refused' the crown at first. Alicent for sure, but also Aemond if I remember correctly, or were they already actually in open war by then? I always thought of it as kind of like the arch duke being shot, it was the moment that pushed a situation that was, barring a few very well placed assassinations perhaps, always going to result in war anyway, but that it was still pretty despicable (what Aemond did, I mean. I am pretty indifferent to real life assassinations). It really is interesting, or maybe we just give GRRM too much credit as the master of biased point of views lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'm Team Black all the way, and I want some more Prince Daemon Targaryen while we're at it, just sayin'!! LOL, I hear we are getting a Dear Daemon story soon, I can't wait. I definately agree with everyone who has pointed out that the written account we received in short story is definately biased to the Greens, and it's actually made me suspicious of Hightowers in general now, too. I do like how it was Rhaenyra's family, in the long run, that continued the Targ dynasty. I do wonder if her son Aegon didn't mind losing the dragons, after what he witnessed. That also makes my point that inspite of the nasty choices in Blood and Cheese, I still think the Greens were, on the whole, more awful. ~Waves~ PS....Hi everyone, been a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The Greens, definitely.Frankly, I'm amazed Blacks let some of them live at all, when they had the choice to do otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Rayne Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 They fought equally dirty, which is to say that both sides fought as dirty as they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Archmaester Gyldayn, the narrator, was not necessarily biased, but his sources are (i.e. Septon Eustace). In the as of yet unpublished unabridged version of the story, the sources are apparently identified and put into perspective. I don't see any Black bias in the story, though. There is no voice declaring Rhaenyra should rule, and/or a general Black hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 What exactly did the blacks do besides use Blood and Cheese that's considered dirty? Daemon didn't force those people to try and tame dragons, and while Rhaenyra was a bit execution-happy there for a while, Aemond and the Two Betrayers are clearly meant to be the most villainous characters in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 While Blood and Cheese was horrifying, I'll say the Greens started the whole thing by fighting dirty three times over: 1) the whole usurping business; 2) killing the old man who oh the horror! wanted to keep his vows; 3) leaving Viserys to rot until the Red Keep became a place that was literally quite... dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaeronDrumm Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 While Blood and Cheese was horrifying, Was it? A son for a son sounds a fair trade to me. Even in vengeance the Blacks had a certain sense of fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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