Greens or Blacks, and who fought dirtier?

[The Wolves]

Was it? A son for a son sounds a fair trade to me.

Even in vengeance the Blacks had a certain sense of fair play.

That "son" was 6yrs old and did no harm against the Blacks it was not fair at all

[Alayne's Shadow.]

The Greens were worst.

I'm a Black supporter.

[Anath]

Was it? A son for a son sounds a fair trade to me.

Even in vengeance the Blacks had a certain sense of fair play.

OK. A horrifying fair trade, then.

The Wolves, it stopped being "fair" the moment Alicent and co. made their grab.

Luke hadn't done anything against the Greens either, was in no way equat to Aemond, and said he wouldn't fight. So the Greens started the whole affair and then Aemond faithfully continued it.

I'd say the Greens were the last people who can demand anyone being fair to them.

[Lord Varys]

Blood and Cheese certainly was a dirty thing. Daemon should have gone after Alicent's sons, or rather after Aegon and Aemond, not after Helaena's children. Taking out Aemond would have enabled Rhaenyra to take KL at once. And I'm not completely sure that Daemon's plan was to take out Aegon's son. There may have been a miscommunication - Daemon meaning one of Alicent's sons, and Blood and Cheese/the pale stranger assuming Daemon meant one of Aegon's sons.

If that's not the case, then the original order may still have been to target one of Alicent's sons, but it was realized that this would not work. Gyldayn mentions that Aegon was too well protected to be targeted by Blood and Cheese. And Aemond may have still been in the Stormlands at this point. His marriage to the daughter of Borros is not mentioned, but it must have occured after Luke's death.

But it's telling that Rhaenyra was not the one ordering it, whereas Aegon was clearly the one demanding the execution of Rhaenyra and her supporters way before the war did escalate.

[Minsc]

The Blacks for Blood and Cheese, and I support neither side as almost everyone in the conflict was either a douche or an idiot.

[shearstone]

The Green's were dirtier, stealing the throne and knowing it's wrong by hiding Visery's death, killing the council member who objected (I forget his name) and the whole business at Storm's End. Also Cregan Stark and Roddy the Ruin supported the Black's as well as the Arryn's of the Vale (aka the (said to be) most honourable houses in Westeros)).

[Waylin Stark]

I support the Greens, but to be honest, the whole war is such a big mess that I can't say who exactly was dirtier. And what exactly defines dirty in the course of war?

But something tells me the Greens were dirtier.

Blood and Cheese is considered the dirty move of the Blacks, but they were fair enough to take a single son, and apart from that, I don't recall any of the moves the Blacks made were truly as dirty as the Greens.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

The Green's were dirtier, stealing the throne and knowing it's wrong by hiding Visery's death, killing the council member who objected (I forget his name) and the whole business at Storm's End. Also Cregan Stark and Roddy the Ruin supported the Black's as well as the Arryn's of the Vale (aka the (said to be) most honourable houses in Westeros)).

And the Starks supported the Blacks, That heavily swayed me.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Blood and Cheese certainly was a dirty thing. Daemon should have gone after Alicent's sons, or rather after Aegon and Aemond, not after Helaena's children. Taking out Aemond would have enabled Rhaenyra to take KL at once. And I'm not completely sure that Daemon's plan was to take out Aegon's son. There may have been a miscommunication - Daemon meaning one of Alicent's sons, and Blood and Cheese/the pale stranger assuming Daemon meant one of Aegon's sons.

If that's not the case, then the original order may still have been to target one of Alicent's sons, but it was realized that this would not work. Gyldayn mentions that Aegon was too well protected to be targeted by Blood and Cheese. And Aemond may have still been in the Stormlands at this point. His marriage to the daughter of Borros is not mentioned, but it must have occured after Luke's death.

But it's telling that Rhaenyra was not the one ordering it, whereas Aegon was clearly the one demanding the execution of Rhaenyra and her supporters way before the war did escalate.

At least with Blood and Cheese it was only 1 murder (child murder makes it even worse). But Aemond/Vhagar........wow, PATQ doesnt give numbers but I think it is safe to say he single-handedly killed well over 1000 people and 100's of homes/crops livestock, everything. He alone gives the entire Targaryen dynasty a bad name.

[Lord Varys]

We should also keep the possibility in mind that King Viserys I Targaryen was poisoned by the Greens/Alicent. If Ser Criston Cole was also actively involved in that thing (and it seems to be the case), then the Dance really started in a very nasty fashion. Jaime was a young man who was clearly not in control of things when he eventually killed Aerys, but Ser Criston Cole was the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. If he participated in or turned a blind eye to Alicent/Otto's plot to get rid of Viserys when they needed him gone, he would be the worst man ever to wear the white cloak.

On Aemond:

Well, he is exceptionally cruel and stupid. GRRM really seems to have used him to hammer home the fact that a big dragon is no use whatsoever in winning a war or accomplish something if you are too stupid to make use of him.

Devastating the Riverlands clearly was no good idea from a strategic POV, even if it had led to Rhaenyra losing more dragons. It would not have made her lose the Iron Throne. And on a larger view both King Aegon II' (and King Aemond I', if Aegon had died) hold on the Iron Throne would have been shaky afterwards, if he had (re)claimed the crown by fighting a war against his own people. People don't forget this kind of stuff easily...

[Suzanna Stormborn]

We should also keep the possibility in mind that King Viserys I Targaryen was poisoned by the Greens/Alicent. If Ser Criston Cole was also actively involved in that thing (and it seems to be the case), then the Dance really started in a very nasty fashion. Jaime was a young man who was clearly not in control of things when he eventually killed Aerys, but Ser Criston Cole was the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. If he participated in or turned a blind eye to Alicent/Otto's plot to get rid of Viserys when they needed him gone, he would be the worst man ever to wear the white cloak.

On Aemond:

Well, he is exceptionally cruel and stupid. GRRM really seems to have used him to hammer home the fact that a big dragon is no use whatsoever in winning a war or accomplish something if you are too stupid to make use of him.

Devastating the Riverlands clearly was no good idea from a strategic POV, even if it had led to Rhaenyra losing more dragons. It would not have made her lose the Iron Throne. And on a larger view both King Aegon II' (and King Aemond I', if Aegon had died) hold on the Iron Throne would have been shaky afterwards, if he had (re)claimed the crown by fighting a war against his own people. People don't forget this kind of stuff easily...

Yes I completely agree. Same thing with the Betrayers, just destroying innocent civilians at Tumbleton for no reason is no way to keep a kingdom happy. Seems like the Blacks were more or less just targeting their enemies, not 1000's of random people.

[Lion of the West]

I started black and is sliding towards the middle.

And Blood and Cheese was a little to harsh even for me.

However I think that the entire war was actually pretty unavoidable. Even if Rhaenyra ascended to the throne as the queen without conflict the same questions regarding a daughter and son that placed the Greens in arms would linger and so on with passing generations. That means that if a future descendent of Rhaenyra would be unpopular or weak, Aegon's descendents could then raise the banners and say that they are the legal kings due to a son coming before a daughter. And with both sides having dragons no side would have the power to hold the throne by that alone. The only alternative for Rhaenyra to save future conflicts to her descendents would have actually been to kill Aegon, his siblings, and their lines.

[apovsic]

I really don't get it, why most of the people support blacks so fiercely and defend their decisions. OK Greens were worse overall I agree, but then, Blood and Cheese. Holly shit, wtf. Killing CHILDREN. Innocent little children. And why? Because his uncle killed some other children? Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense. Justice is served. I mean, I would object if they would any other plotter. That may be reasonable. But the children. Just no. And i don't know how can anybody defend that or is even please. :ack:

And that eye for an eye excuse. Yes Aemond was a shitty, crazy person, we can all agree on that. Instead of punishing him, what do they do? They do more horrible thing. Yeee, we are more crazy than Aemond, that will teach them a lesson!

So I despise Deamon as much as Aemond and was overjoyed when both of theme perished in the lake. I really hope Deamon didn't survive.

[PrimeRhaegar]

The greens no doubt. Letting the King rot so they can try and muzzle support and arrest all of the people who they feel would not be loyal, then they kill the master of coin all this while not telling the king's heir and brother that he is dead. That dirty as hell

I don't believe that BS about aegon not wanting taking the throne his mother probably already filled his head with that crap look at aemond's reaction when the king died, you expect me to believe aegon wasn't also in on it.

Still poor heleana though, but hey it's your mom and brothers' fault it happened.

[Jojosh]

Both of them fought dirty the blacks had blood and cheese while the greens had that kinslaying badass aemond doing anything. Although I guess the greens also kinda were behind the sack of tumbletown in a way

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I really don't get it, why most of the people support blacks so fiercely and defend their decisions. OK Greens were worse overall I agree, but then, Blood and Cheese. Holly shit, wtf. Killing CHILDREN. Innocent little children. And why? Because his uncle killed some other children? Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense. Justice is served. I mean, I would object if they would any other plotter. That may be reasonable. But the children. Just no. And i don't know how can anybody defend that or is even please. :ack:

And that eye for an eye excuse. Yes Aemond was a shitty, crazy person, we can all agree on that. Instead of punishing him, what do they do? They do more horrible thing. Yeee, we are more crazy than Aemond, that will teach them a lesson!

So I despise Deamon as much as Aemond and was overjoyed when both of theme perished in the lake. I really hope Deamon didn't survive.

I agree B&C was terrible, but Aemond going from place to place destroying entire castles and towns, one would have to assume he killed a lot more than just 1 child. granted those children were not members of the royal family, they were still innocent children. I think Aemond takes the cake for dirtiest and most destructive.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Greens hands down for me.

1. As the OP says they started an unnecessary war in which they acknowledged many thousands of people would die and they didn't care.

2. Aemond killed an envoy, Baratheon let him kill an envoy.

3. Blood and Cheese- many people say this was terribly cruel, and I admit it was, however if you look at the outcome it actually may have been the best move they could make, with the possible exception of killing Alicent as well. If they had killed both of Aegons sons then Aemond would have become the heir( a grown man with anger problems riding the largest dragon in the world rather than a child), if they killed Heleana then her dragon could have taken a new rider, while they could not predict she would turn into a basket case rather than vengeful dragon rider, she did. This neutralized a dragon for the remainder of its life, sparing how many lives?

[apovsic]

I agree B&C was terrible, but Aemond going from place to place destroying entire castles and towns, one would have to assume he killed a lot more than just 1 child. granted those children were not members of the royal family, they were still innocent children. I think Aemond takes the cake for dirtiest and most destructive.

I agree that Aemond was a sick person, so I really don't get why people think that revenge was fine, when Deamon acted the same way as Aemond would. We have to draw line somewhere, from which there is no no who is more dirty, they are both infinitely dirty. And that what's happened in that case.

[Faydra]

I support the blacks overall, but I have mixed feelings towards Daemon.

[the conquoring bastard25]

Blood and Cheese were terrible!!! that was super dirty, Helaena I felt bad for the whole time.

I agree that the Greens started it, but the Blacks may have been the more fearsome foe. Especially after Rhaenyras sons started dying, she just lost it.

It may have been terrible but I loved it!!! I'm an old testament type of person. I believe in an eye for an eye. So hell yeah I say bring it. In war their are no friends it's about winning. Sometimes the fall out is nasty but as my favorite author of the 15 century said The ends justify the means

Hell my favorite quote of all time is fair exchange is no robbery. The Greens started the mess the blacks just finished it. They both played foully but the Blacks were just more even handed in theirs and they only struck after being struck first.