Sun Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 How is healing a dragon, on which Tyrion might have an idea given his lore about dragon books which surely involves dragon biology, a stretch but a dwarf slaying a dragon is not a stretch? He doesn't have to get anywhere near a dragon to kill it, nor does he need to kill it with his bare hands - you're being far too literal, my friend - all he needs to do for dragon blood to be on his hands is to be responsible for the death of a dragon, be it the animal or Dany. EDIT: Also, I just thought of another possible meaning to the Cyvass piece imagery: It could be seen to say that Dany's campaign, already pretty bloody costing many innocent lives, will only get bloodier, and by joining her, Tyrion will become responsible for a lot of future deaths: Westerosi blood on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 He doesn't have to get anywhere near a dragon to kill it, nor does he need to kill it with his bare hands - you're being far too literal, my friend - all he needs to do for dragon blood to be on his hands is to be responsible for the death of a dragon, be it the animal or Dany. EDIT: Also, I just thought of another possible meaning to the Cyvass piece imagery: It could be seen to say that Dany's campaign, already pretty bloody costing many innocent lives, will only get bloodier, and by joining her, Tyrion will become responsible for a lot of future deaths: Westerosi blood on his hands. I don't think this imagery is hard to crack. It is very simple. A white dragon falls to the ground bloody and Tyrion picks it up and wipes its blood. Tyrion is not harming/wounding the dragon, he is helping it, treating it by wiping the blood away. Then he throws it in the air, which means the dragon will fly again after its fall. I am curious how can you conclude that Tyrion is slaying the dragon here. The Yunkish officer's corpse falls on the dragon. The cyvasse piece falls to the ground with the blood from his corpse. Viserion is in the air and trying to roast and eat the corpses being thrown to Meereen. Then he retreats to his lair as far as Tyrion sees. I think Viserion is already wounded or maybe sick from eating too many pale mare corpses. Tyrion will help the beast with his lore of dragon biology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 You're being way too literal. Good imagery alludes, it doesn't imply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I don't think this imagery is hard to crack. It is very simple. A white dragon falls to the ground bloody and Tyrion picks it up and wipes its blood. Tyrion is not harming/wounding the dragon, he is helping it, treating it by wiping the blood away. Then he throws it in the air, which means the dragon will fly again after its fall. I am curious how can you conclude that Tyrion is slaying the dragon here. The Yunkish officer's corpse falls on the dragon. The cyvasse piece falls to the ground with the blood from his corpse. Viserion is in the air and trying to roast and eat the corpses being thrown to Meereen. Then he retreats to his lair as far as Tyrion sees. I think Viserion is already wounded or maybe sick from eating too many pale mare corpses. Tyrion will help the beast with his lore of dragon biology. Yes exactly. This is more or less exactly what I think as well :) GRRM has already confirmed the dragons will make it til the end, No one is slaying a dragon in Merreen, neither will Dany die there. We will just have to see how Viserion reacts to Tyrion. If Tyrion is say with BBP when he finds the dragon, there is no evidence Viserion will roast them both. In fact there is evidence that Viserion likes BBP, he cuddled with him in Dany's tent that time and Dany even mentioned that the dragon liked him. Also Viserion didnt attack Quentyn, he went after the meat they had brought down to catch them with. Quentyn's try at catching the dragons failed miserably, but we got a good look at the temperament of Rhaegal and Viserion. Rhaegal was much much more hostile and aggressive. Viserion just wanted food and to escape the cave, he was not interested in killing people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorne Sand Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Just read it. Awesome chapter On my side i just love the dynamic between tyrion and penny and what it implies for tyrion in terms of self loathing, dwarf hate, complete loss of confidence and how penny's affection drags him to a hell pit of mixed and disturbed feelings. Clearly she should be his redemption way, the person who could bring him back to hope in humanity, in innocent love, but for him being so low in terms of self esteem, and her being well a dwarf which shows us another aspect of the not so nice tyrion who behave just like any person he met and who regarded him with contempt I also liked how this chapter reminded us of how tyrion is not defintely the standard hero by recalling all his absolute evil deeds (Watching his father guards raping his wife, killing his father, his lover). funny how he doesn't mention himself raping his own wife after all the guards though as if it is something he cannot cope with yet another dark and wisted thing is how he seems to regain confidence by the demise of inkpots when pissing himslef and how he seems overly satisfied by it which is kind of pitiful if you think about how he admitted to be terrified just minutes before. I don't remember if in previous chapter the soldier in the company called him halfman before. But i just remembered that it was his battle name during his sortie in kings landing which was kind of sweet to read again and may remind him of his former bravery I think that this chapter is the start of tyrion coming back to his own self. As a man can be brave only when he is afraid rigth? This battle will give him the means to gain some self credit, something to build on. In fact him turning the company back in the arms of dany is a first clear win for him. ah, and for the foreshadowing players, it is the chaos created by the dragons that save tyrion ( and penny) from his murder impulsion pulling him back from his dark and murdurous reverie he was drawning in. For me the only clear foreshadowing here, is the clear intent of the author to give us back our good old tyrion proved by the breastplate jape in the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTN02 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 a white dragon is Bloodraven's sigil.... http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Bloodraven.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 a white dragon is Bloodraven's sigil.... http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Bloodraven.png Except Viserion's scales are cream, his eyes, horns, wing bones and spinal crest are gold. And he has a gold flame, gold blood and a famous roar that might scare the shit out of 100 lions. I think the symbolism here can be attached to a Lannister Lion (hear me roar) than BR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Except Viserion's scales are cream, his eyes, horns, wing bones and spinal crest are gold. And he has a gold flame, gold blood and a famous roar that might scare the shit out of 100 lions. I think the symbolism here can be attached to a Lannister Lion (hear me roar) than BR. That's interesting. I hadnt thought of that, thanks for sharing. I think there is plenty enough symbolism towards BR already. Dany and the dragons are still a world away, I dont think there is much connecting Viserion to BR at this point. the Cyvasse piece is far more relevant to TYrions situation at hand than it is to a tree-man in a cave above the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 in winds of winter tyrion sample chapter viscerion was eatin the dead bodies and leaves the battle after that but rhegal stays ...we r forgetting that those bodies are afftected with pale mare which means viscerian could have gotten affected by the mare..now to red stained white dragon from cyvase game that lands on tyrion legs means that viscerion is affected by mare and who better to cure the dragon than him because he ha read more about dragons and dont forget jon connington asked him to write down everything he knows about dragon...i personally believe tyrion is a rider and he will ride viscerian because drogon is already taken by danny and rhegal is going to be taken by jon because who is more perfect to take the dragon that is named after his father Rhaegar...i dont belive bran would ride bcoz he will take the place of bloodraven and that will be enough for him to fly across the westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Yes exactly. This is more or less exactly what I think as well :) GRRM has already confirmed the dragons will make it til the end, No one is slaying a dragon in Merreen, neither will Dany die there. The only expiry date on a foreshadow is the end of the story. It doesn't have to happen in Mereen, nor even in TWOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Atreides Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I have to see if I already have this application on my tablet :) and get back all. I don't think I've read this one at all :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I also wanted to say that the possible Aerys+Joanna tryst is mentioned on Joanna's page on the App, as well as "According to Barristan Selmy, Aerys was quite taken with Joanna in his youth. At her marriage to Tywin, he became drunk and remarked that it was a pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished, then proceeded to take certain liberties with Joanna during the bedding ceremony."Aerys's page on the App"When Lord Tywin wed his cousin Joanna it was said that Aerys bemoaned the fact that the right of the first night had been banned, and it was whispered he might have taken livberties with Joanna's person during the bedding ceremony; this caused the first cracks in his and Tywin's relationship." I just find it interesting that this is mentioned twice in the app but is dismissed as 'just another secret Targ theory'. But never once is it even hinted to at all that Jon is Lyanna's son in the app, but we accept R+L=J as basically canon at this point. I do believe Jon is Lyannas son, but I also believe that 1 or all 3 of the Lannister children are actually Aerys's bastards, There is an ass load of evidence that suggests this in the novels, and I am getting tired of it being dismissed as a crackpot theory. if it was crackpot it would not be mentioned in the books or the app so many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I also wanted to say that the possible Aerys+Joanna tryst is mentioned on Joanna's page on the App, as well as "According to Barristan Selmy, Aerys was quite taken with Joanna in his youth. At her marriage to Tywin, he became drunk and remarked that it was a pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished, then proceeded to take certain liberties with Joanna during the bedding ceremony." Aerys's page on the App "When Lord Tywin wed his cousin Joanna it was said that Aerys bemoaned the fact that the right of the first night had been banned, and it was whispered he might have taken livberties with Joanna's person during the bedding ceremony; this caused the first cracks in his and Tywin's relationship." I just find it interesting that this is mentioned twice in the app but is dismissed as 'just another secret Targ theory'. But never once is it even hinted to at all that Jon is Lyanna's son in the app, but we accept R+L=J as basically canon at this point. I do believe Jon is Lyannas son, but I also believe that 1 or all 3 of the Lannister children are actually Aerys's bastards, There is an ass load of evidence that suggests this in the novels, and I am getting tired of it being dismissed as a crackpot theory. if it was crackpot it would not be mentioned in the books or the app so many times. I happen to think it's crackpot, but that aside, why is weird that the app mentions it twice? The entire conflict between Tywin and Aerys is a huge part of the plot of the series. How does RR end if Tywin isn't driven away from Aerys? Briefly covering it in the app doesn't really lend my credence in my view. Comparing Jon's parental theories to the Lannister children is a bad idea in the first place because of the sheer disparity in number of people who might have witnessed something aside from the official narrative happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I happen to think it's crackpot, but that aside, why is weird that the app mentions it twice? The entire conflict between Tywin and Aerys is a huge part of the plot of the series. How does RR end if Tywin isn't driven away from Aerys? Briefly covering it in the app doesn't really lend my credence in my view. Comparing Jon's parental theories to the Lannister children is a bad idea in the first place because of the sheer disparity in number of people who might have witnessed something aside from the official narrative happening. Its not crackpot because the app mentions it twice is what i am saying. i dont consider this idea that has been mentioned in the books many times and the app twice to be in the same 'crackpot' category as the idea that Rhaegar is Mance or that NEd is still alive or that someone besides Roose stabbed Robb at the RW. there are many many 'ridiculous crackpot' ideas and that's fine, but the A+J=T no longer should have 'crackpot' status is all I am saying. My issue is with the grouping of this theory under the title 'crackpot' Crackpot implies that there is little or no bearing. I was saying that R+L=J is not mentioned at all whatsoever in the app. there is not one sentence that says anything AT ALL about Jon possibly being Lyannas son. So if a 'theory' that is not even mentioned at all is accepted as canon then a theory which is mentioned twice should not be considered 'crackpot' any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Its not crackpot because the app mentions it twice is what i am saying. i dont consider this idea that has been mentioned in the books many times and the app twice to be in the same 'crackpot' category as the idea that Rhaegar is Mance or that NEd is still alive or that someone besides Roose stabbed Robb at the RW. there are many many 'ridiculous crackpot' ideas and that's fine, but the A+J=T no longer should have 'crackpot' status is all I am saying. My issue is with the grouping of this theory under the title 'crackpot' Crackpot implies that there is little or no bearing. I was saying that R+L=J is not mentioned at all whatsoever in the app. there is not one sentence that says anything AT ALL about Jon possibly being Lyannas son. So if a 'theory' that is not even mentioned at all is accepted as canon then a theory which is mentioned twice should not be considered 'crackpot' any longer. Isn't the app written as in-universe understanding though? All of the app entries that I am aware of deal with facts from the book itself or additional info such as marriages, places etc. I don't believe the app deals with theories, though I may be mistaken. So it makes sense it doesn't mention anything about R+L=J (doesn't it also list Jon as dead? and how many of us believe that?) while mentioning the Aerys-Joanna thing, as those are rumours that are actually mentioned in the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Isn't the app written as in-universe understanding though? All of the app entries that I am aware of deal with facts from the book itself or additional info such as marriages, places etc. I don't believe the app deals with theories, though I may be mistaken. So it makes sense it doesn't mention anything about R+L=J (doesn't it also list Jon as dead? and how many of us believe that?) while mentioning the Aerys-Joanna thing, as those are rumours that are actually mentioned in the text. Yeah the app only deals in facts from the books, but of course there is not enough room on the tiny app to include all facts from the books, it only includes important points, most of which are needed to understand possible future events. That's my point, that in the limited description of these 2 characters, their supposed 'tryst' is obviously of vital importance. For instance on Brandons page there is not one word about Ashara Dayne. On Howland Reed's page there is also nothing about Ashara Dayne. Nor is there anything about her on JonCon's page, On Lyanna's page there is nothing about the Knight of the Laughing Tree. Frey Pies are not mentioned once anywhere on anyones page. So I am just commenting that some things are more important than others, some things are left out of the App and some are not. Aerys + Joanna is mentioned twice (maybe more, I havent read every page). So I thin kit would be nice if people would remove the word 'crackpot' when referring to this idea and just call it a plain old 'theory'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.