Wow, I Never Noticed That v.4

[jenoftheworldx]

I mean no "t".

[Westeros Batman]

Rereading ACoK, I just noticed Arya gives Jaqen, Rorge and Biter an axe to escape the cage in the burning shed when Amory Lorch attacks. When her party returns to the scene, they find Yoren killed by an axe, and some of the victims of the battle mauled by a dog or wolf. Only now I realize it must have been either Rorge or Jaqen to kill Yoren, and Biter to have been at the corpses. And that this probably influenced Amory Lorch sparing their lives, and permitting them to join his company.

The thing I most feel bad for missing is the "Food Code" Martin implemented, where mentions of peaches signify innocence/being naive, boars change of power, Arbor Gold deception etc. There are lots of things I found odd but couldn't figure them all out - as in, I thought that Tywin was poisoned from the way his body rotted but I thought Shae poisoned him somehow and that she wanted to say that to Tyrion as he was strangling her.

It just occurred to me that LF betrayed Ned long before the throne room confrontation, maybe even right after they spoke, by telling Cersei the details of Ned's plans for what happens after Robert dies. His arrest if he didn't bend the knee, the sudden but effective purge of his household - the whole thing was pre-planned! I had always assumed everything happened on the fly, but it was just Ned caught unaware. It's too well thought-out to have been planned after Sansa went to Cersei that same morning. For one thing, Ned woke up to sound of Cersei's men drilling - preparing for conflict - hours before Sansa spoke. It also explains Cersei's icy composure during what seemed like total chaos and the fact that she never once doubted LF's loyalty even when he appeared to be Ned's ally. And it fits the series pattern of the most successful schemes being planned off-page.

EDIT: Some more thoughts.

Accepting this as true, it means Sansa and Arya wouldn't have been able to escape to the ship even if Sansa had kept quiet because Cersei already anticipated their attempt to escape. So, she didn't alert Cersei so much as give her the cherry on top - convenient, but ultimately inconsequential. Common fandom belief is that Sansa opening her mouth was what killed Ned, but given this information, that doesn't make sense.

I've heard it said that GRRM confirmed she played a role in his death. Can someone give me the exact quote?

Wow, just wow. Never even thought of these. Also, the theory of the Red Viper poisoning Tywin makes complete sense to me but I totally missed it first time round.

[Don Roberto]

Hmm, I think not coming up on your own with theories that took years and dozens of contributions and countless discussions to stitch together can't really fall in the "never noticed that" cathegory.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

You know that statement "A bird may love a fish, but where would they build a home together?"

Littlefinger (mockingbird) was in love with Cat (trout), but realistically it never would have worked.

Same goes for Lysa loving him. Added irony in that going out the moondoor is referred to, by her son, as flying.

[HexMachina]

I'm rereading the Colour of Magic, and there is a scene in the Wyrmberg where Liessa is heading to the dragons and thinking of how the Male claimant comes before the female:

"...the key to the throne of the Wyrmberg. It was rightfully hers of course; but tradition said only a man could rule the Wyrmberg."

I know the passage is completely unrelated to tPatQ, but I had to share because it made me :lol:

[Cold Hands warm heart]

When entering the moondoor or the Hodor you find emptiness. All that's mentioned here in the past few days is what makes the re-reads so palatable .

[FittleLinger]

Hugor (of the Hill) was a King's name allright, but Tyrion was a king's name too! Just noticed that!

It's in Cersei's chapter in feast where she begs Falyse to kill Bronn.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I recently read The Hedge Knight, which includes the story of how the green apple Fossoways split from the red apple Fossoways. In talking to my son about the story I said "there's a bad apple in every barrel." I just realized the green apple Fossoways live at New Barrel. Clever, GRRM!

ETA: and the red apple Fossoways live at Cider Hall. GRRM must love puns as much as my dad does!

[Oberoth]

There is a horn which is claimed to have been used to call the giants from the earth. House Celtigar claims to have a horn that can summon Krakens from the deeps. And Victarion has a horn that claims to bind dragons to its owner will.

Three giants, those of the earth water and air.

Jorah Mormont was to be executed by Ned stark, but he fled before Ned arrived at bear island with Ice.

[DrunkSister]

I've heard it said that GRRM confirmed she played a role in his death. Can someone give me the exact quote?

Sansa was the least sympathetic of the Starks in the first book; she has become more sympathetic, partly because she comes to accept responsibility for her part in her father’s death.

source

He is talking of Sansa here, not Ned, and the wording is very specific - she accepts responsibility for her part in her fathers death. IMO this has more to do with character development than with causation.

There is a horn which is claimed to have been used to call the giants from the earth. House Celtigar claims to have a horn that can summon Krakens from the deeps. And Victarion has a horn that claims to bind dragons to its owner will.

Three giants, those of the earth water and air.

ZOMG!

[WhiteWalker11]

I never realized until my reread that Dany is warned that Pyatt Pree is still after her for revenge, and coincidentally Euron shows up with his lips all blue saying he's captured the warlocks of Quarth.

Makes me sad that Euron (and Victorian) is just a puppet PP is using to get to Dany. (Theory I subscribe to, unwillingly after this discovery)

[Artemis]

Sansa's main weapon is her courtesy which she calls "armour" a traditionally male object.

Arya's main weapon is her sword which she calls "needle", a traditionally female object.

This is so fascinating to me. These two Stark siblings have a lot more in common than meets the eye. Shame that those similarities often get overlooked when discussing one or the other.

[cocoalover1956]

source

He is talking of Sansa here, not Ned, and the wording is very specific - she accepts responsibility for her part in her fathers death. IMO this has more to do with character development than with causation.

ZOMG!

Thank you. :agree:

[Harzoo]

Joffrey tries to kill Dontos Hollard with wine.

Dontos Hollard later helps kill Joffrey with wine: He gives Sansa the hairnet with the poison jewels.

[Pib_Juju]

I never realized until my reread that Dany is warned that Pyatt Pree is still after her for revenge, and coincidentally Euron shows up with his lips all blue saying he's captured the warlocks of Quarth.

Makes me sad that Euron (and Victorian) is just a puppet PP is using to get to Dany. (Theory I subscribe to, unwillingly after this discovery)

Oh wow, that would kind of explain Balon's conveniently-timed death.

[The Drunkard]

Rereading ACoK, I just noticed Arya gives Jaqen, Rorge and Biter an axe to escape the cage in the burning shed when Amory Lorch attacks. When her party returns to the scene, they find Yoren killed by an axe, and some of the victims of the battle mauled by a dog or wolf. Only now I realize it must have been either Rorge or Jaqen to kill Yoren, and Biter to have been at the corpses. And that this probably influenced Amory Lorch sparing their lives, and permitting them to join his company.

<snip>

From Merrett Frey we know, that you needed some form of distinction in the Freys, else they were likely to forget you.

What if Jared Frey was the biggest liar in the Twins?

Wow, never noticed either of those.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Wow, never noticed either of those.

I certainly never noticed that Rorge/Biter (doubt it was Jaqen unless he was deliberately trying to wins points with Lorch) would have been the ones to kill Yoren, but it makes sense, given the scene and the fact that they had an ax. It also explains, as was stated, why they were allowed to join Lorch's group at all. Very clever.

[Daniel Snow]

Theon has missing time (brought on by insanity) in ADWD which is clearly when he was committing the "ghost of winterfell" murders.

As the garrison broke it's fast on stale bread fried in bacon grease (the lords and knights ate the bacon), the talk along the benches was of >little but the corpse. "Stannis has friends inside the castle." Theon heard one serjeant mutter. He was an old Tallheart man, three trees sewn on his ragged surcoat. The watch had just changed. Men were coming in from the cold, stomping their feet to knock the snow off their boots and breeches as the midday meal was served-blood sausage, leeks, and brown bread still warm from the oven.

Breakfast right to lunch in the same paragraph!

:o

[dem]

This thread blows my mind. I also felt really dumb for not knowing that Abel was Mance the first time around. I have to admit that people thinking it was Kettleb-ack and not Kettle-black made me chuckle. The moment I first read the name Kettleblack I immediately thought of the phrase, "the pot calling the kettle black."

I never noticed that Talisa Maegyr on Game of Thrones was actually named from Malaquo Maegyr, one of the reigning Triarchs of Volantis. I don't remember if he's mentioned in the text of any of the books by name but I only caught it when I was bored and bothered to read the Essos appendix at the back ADWD for the first time.

I always just assumed that D&D made up Talisa's name completely since she is a show-only character.

[FittleLinger]

This thread blows my mind. I also felt really dumb for not knowing that Abel was Mance the first time around. I have to admit that people thinking it was Kettleb-ack and not Kettle-black made me chuckle. The moment I first read the name Kettleblack I immediately thought of the phrase, "the pot calling the kettle black."

I never noticed that Talisa Maegyr on Game of Thrones was actually named from Malaquo Maegyr, one of the reigning Triarchs of Volantis. I don't remember if he's mentioned in the text of any of the books by name but I only caught it when I was bored and bothered to read the Essos appendix at the back ADWD for the first time.

I always just assumed that D&D made up Talisa's name completely since she is a show-only character.

Someone pointed out some time ago that all of the initials of the Kettleblacks are O.K. Seems like even Martin wanted us to not distinguish between them and find them mediocre at everything :)

The Talisa thing I never caught and would've probably never caught, thanks for that.