Darth Visenya Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yeah burning muh Starks is so funny :( That wasn't just funny, it was outright hilarious, my ribs hurt from laughing after reading that passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion Chainbreaker Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 On a recent reread I found absolute proof that Jaime and Cercei are Targs. In ASOS Jaime proposes to Cercei that they go public with their relationship, like the Targs of old, to which Cercei replies:"We are not Targaryens!"If Cercei thinks it, you know it's wrong. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 If Cercei thinks it, you know it's wrong. Case closed. This is the most convincing argument I've seen. :D I'll make a deal with all the Cersei Targ and Jamie Targ fans: they can be Targs, if Tyrion can be too. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Here's a list of Targ tendencies in the ostensible children of Tywin Lannister: Jaime - incest Cersei - incest, insanity, ambition, pyromania Tyrion - keen interest in dragons and fire, black eye could be from mixed purple and green pigment, hair is described as white-blond rather than golden Just a list. If they do have Targ blood I think it's more likely to come from an old marriage with the Plumms than from Aerys though. Your forgot Tyrion's dragon dreams and not getting greyscale (so far, that we know of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Eye Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Now that Bran can listen at trees in the past, we might end up being privy to a lot of secrets.I am new to the forum and the theory that the Lannister twins might be Targs is intriguing. It makes a lot of sense and might explain the breakdown when Tywin failed to broker a match with Cersei and the Targ prince.That might be easier for me to accept because I definitely don't believe Jon is the child of L and R. I don't think Ned would have allowed Jon to take the Black without knowing the truth of his lineage if he had a chance at the iron throne. Moreover, I don't think he'd have tortured his wife and Jon by allowing them to suffer needlessly over a promise he made. There would be other ways around that. That doesn't sound like Ned to me. Ned supported Robert's Rebellion and therefore made a stand against the Targaryans. It wouldn't be honoralble to claim the throne for Jon now. Him taking the black is a solution to Ned's problems. In Ned's world all the problems were solved with Jon taking the black. In fact he might have even come clean about the whole thing. Maybe that's even why he wanted to stay in Winterfell and not accept Robert's offer because he knew that there would have been a fight between him and Robert... I think that this is wha Ned meant when he said. Next time we see each other, we'll speak about your mother...I think Ned's Promise he gave to L wa that he will make sure that Jon can live and that his live will be honorable... not the promise to never tell anybody... I don't want to go too far ot here but it kind of fascinates me, how one would have done that... come clean about Jons parentage. I think if I'd been in Neds position, I could have done it. I would have started like this. There is one more secret about Lyana...and then I would have chosen my words carefully. I wouldn't have said anything about L actually loving R. I would have had Robert believe in his Rape story. I would have told him that I'd have wanted to kill the babe right away but that a dying Lyana made a wish for this was her first and only child... Unfortunatelly Ned couldn't have done this. He would have screwd up...he would have started like Lyana had feelings for R that would have made R mad... then in the worst possible moment he would have told him that they even had a son and when Robert would have been beating Ned to dead, he would have thought. That was the honorable way... instead of telling Robert that it was Lyanna's last will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Eye Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 This is the most convincing argument I've seen. :D I'll make a deal with all the Cersei Targ and Jamie Targ fans: they can be Targs, if Tyrion can be too. B) These are your books, you bought them. Feel free to limit the way in which you fill the gaps with nothing but your imagination. Tyrion being Targaryen may actually be hinted at by the dragon dream... I didn'd see that... Still I don't like to see him as a Targaryan. I'd rather see him as Tywin's son... the irony behind Cersei and Jamie being Aerys' chldren would be great. Tyrion being a Targaryan on the other hand... well... that would weaken the patrocide....it wouldn't add anything to the story but rather take something away...still... why not see him as Aerys' son too...the story leaves that room for you, to do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 That wasn't just funny, it was outright hilarious, my ribs hurt from laughing after reading that passage. What about the boner ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 The Targaryens marry brother and sister. Why should Aerys care if his son and daughter marry? princes do not marry bastards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 We've seen several bedding ceremonies. Pray tell, where is Aerys going to find the time and wherewithal to, presumably, rape Joanna *after* making a drunken joke about not getting the right of first night? Tywin hears that joke, and Tywin is going to be in the same room they bring Joanna into. Unless Aerys is a 2 pump chump AND all the men carrying Joanna assent and remain silent, there is literally no way for that to happen. The bedding is undressing and making crude jokes. The obvious implication is that he felt her up a good deal. Anything more and it would have been described as more than "taking a liberty" We've seen several bedding ceremonies. Pray tell, where is Aerys going to find the time and wherewithal to, presumably, rape Joanna *after* making a drunken joke about not getting the right of first night? Tywin hears that joke, and Tywin is going to be in the same room they bring Joanna into. Unless Aerys is a 2 pump chump AND all the men carrying Joanna assent and remain silent, there is literally no way for that to happen. The bedding is undressing and making crude jokes. The obvious implication is that he felt her up a good deal. Anything more and it would have been described as more than "taking a liberty" Ser Barristan comments to Dany that Aerys took certain liberties during the bedding. He Was King. he could have had everyone leave the room for a few moments before Tywin was brought in. I think dismissing it might be rather hasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Morgan Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hey everyone I've been lurking here for a while but the topic made me join!!, I don't know if it is true but Cersei has the exact same personality and temper as The Mad King I think she could be his daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Ser Barristan comments to Dany that Aerys took certain liberties during the bedding. He Was King. he could have had everyone leave the room for a few moments before Tywin was brought in. I think dismissing it might be rather hasty. I don't think dismissing it is hasty. It would have been described as more than "taking certain liberties" if he did, like every other rape in the book or any other description of the First Night custom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talking Hodor Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Why do the names of logical fallacies sound so much more cooler in German? Hell, everything sounds cooler in German. Except song lyrics, and law books. Reminds me of a joke: Tell someone you love them, because life is beautiful, but yell it at them in German, because life is also scary and confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talking Hodor Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Ser Barristan comments to Dany that Aerys took certain liberties during the bedding. He Was King. he could have had everyone leave the room for a few moments before Tywin was brought in. I think dismissing it might be rather hasty. Prima nocte anybody? Roose Bolton and the Skagosi apparently partake in it too. Jaime and Cersei as Aerys' bastards is far more likely than Tyrion. Plus their incest, Cersei's insanity, and Jamie's prophetic dreams (dragon dreams?) seem to indicate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talking Hodor Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Your forgot Tyrion's dragon dreams and not getting greyscale (so far, that we know of). Plus Jaime's arm healed relatively well for having had almost no treatment and the dead hand hanging from his neck for ages. Sandor succumbed to lesser wounds festering, despite better treatment. We've also never heard of Cersei getting sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosts in winterfell Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Targaryens are not immune to disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Plus Jaime's arm healed relatively well for having had almost no treatment and the dead hand hanging from his neck for ages. Sandor succumbed to lesser wounds festering, despite better treatment. We've also never heard of Cersei getting sick. Jamie's arm healed relatively well because Qyburn is an excellent healer. He did have to cut out a lot of dead flesh from Jamie's wrist. The dead hand around his neck would have done nothing to infect his wounds that the air around him and general treatment wouldn't have already. Sandor didn't get *any* treatment except some boiling wine, and his wounds were more numerous and worse (knife slice to ribs, sword cut to side of face and ear, knife wound to neck, sword wound to the thigh). The thigh wound got infected and he had no one to fix it. Tyrion poisoned Cersei pretty easily to get her out of the small council meetings. How many people have we actually seen "get sick" in ASOIAF so far? I'm pretty sure more people have been poisoned. Edit: They also cauterized his wound with a torch, which was probably more effective than the boiling wine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Feel free to limit the way in which you fill the gaps with nothing but your imagination. Huh? What limiting is going on by using one's imagination? My imagination is limitless. It opens up a world of possibilities for me, but I never rely on it exclusively as you seem to be suggesting. I actually think all the Lannister kids are Lannisters, but I am also able to entertain the possibility that they aren't. Did you think I was arguing in favor of something? I'm just going through pointing out minor things that may have been missed, and having some fun--killing time waiting for TWoW like everyone else on here. If some Lannisters are Targs, why not have all of them be? It would be more fair. And Tyrion would still be a kinslayer either way. I'm good regardless of how it plays out. :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Eye Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Huh? What limiting is going on by using one's imagination? My imagination is limitless. It opens up a world of possibilities for me, but I never rely on it exclusively as you seem to be suggesting. I actually think all the Lannister kids are Lannisters, but I am also able to entertain the possibility that they aren't. Did you think I was arguing in favor of something? I'm just going through pointing out minor things that may have been missed, and having some fun--killing time waiting for TWoW like everyone else on here. If some Lannisters are Targs, why not have all of them be? It would be more fair. And Tyrion would still be a kinslayer either way. I'm good regardless of how it plays out. :cool4: Well technically.... Tyrion wouldn't be a Kinslayer then... anyway..I didn't mean to sound the way I sounded and I therefore apologize ;-) It's just that in my point of view, Tyrion as a character wouldn't win anything from being the so of Aerys rather than being the son of Tywin... It would actually weaken the story - as far as we've heard it...so I don't really get it that you say "it would be fair"... fair to whom? I mean it alsmost sounds to me like you're saying that - for the characters it would actually be "cool" or good in any way to be Aerys' offspring... but that guy was known as the MAD king! For 14 years, believing in the fact that that man was evil has become one of the foundations the Westerosi socienty has been built on. If all three of the Lannister children were Targaryens, Tyroin would gain nothing from this... and the most important thing we may not forget here. Being Aerys' bastards wouldn't make them targayens.. it would make them Waters... that's a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 ^ Yeah, actually Tyrion would still be a kinslayer, it would just be cousin Tywin instead of dad Tywin. Lesser degree of kinship but still technically kin. I've yet to see anything that indicates degree of kinship is considered when applying the term kinslayer. Invoking the chimera argument allows all of it though, so that's my favorite crackpot. I meant fair as in if Jame and Cersei are half-Targaryens then Tyrion is left out. And who wants to break up such a happy family? ;) Tyrion would gain some things actually: a really cool half-sister (with dragons!) who might--big might--appreciate his abilities; not having killed his own father (unless he's a chimera); not being as closely related to Cersei (assuming she isn't half-Targ, that is); according the Targ propaganda and a good share of the people on the forums, an increased chance of being a dragonrider. You're right that they would be Waters as far as name goes, but we seem to be dealing with a magical bloodline in the Targs (as in the Starks) which is probably why this gets so much debate. I doubt anyone would be interested in discussing whether any of the Lannister children are half Hornwood, for example. :D ETA: also being half-Targ would give anyone a (highly debatable) claim to the throne. Even the Baratheons claim the throne in part because of their own Targaryen ancestry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDYJTArrant Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Everyone says that there's going to be a dance of dragons on Westeros, and assume this means a conflict between Daenerys and Aegon. However, this could mean Cersei and Daenerys (or alternatively Aegon). I'm pretty sure it's Daenerys though because o what that witch lady saying she'd be overthrown by a younger, more beautiful queen, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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