[TWOW SPOILERS] Theon I, part vi

[divica]

On 23/05/2014 at 11:09 AM, pobeb said:

I'm gonna list some key lines from the chapter and try my best to explain how they prove Ramsey wrote the letter:

 

 

Obviously the implication here is that Maester Tybald has 3 ravens that fly exclusively to Winterfell and has been using them to betray Stannis' location to the Boltons.

 

Yes, leave the ravens that only fly to Winterfell, as detailed earlier in this exchange. But why?

 

 

Also meaning, it may be false. But why would Massey receive false news of Stannis' death? Well:

 

 

The Pink Letter claims that Stannis is dead. It also claims there was a 7 day long battle. Odd that GRRM decided to include detailing the length of the battle. Why is it important for the reader to know? Well, after Roose Bolton get's Tybald's last message, he says:

 

 

3 days for the Freys/Manderys to arrive at The Gift, 1 day of a farce of a battle (Manderly's drive the Freys into the frozen lake - more on this later) and to plot on how to prevent Ramsey from following into battle and discovering their ploy (see Dreadfort ravens explanation above), and another 3 days for Stannis' host to reach Winterfell. 3 + 3 + 1 =

 

 

How do I know the frozen lake will play a part in the doom of the Freys? Well, from Theon we know:

 

 

And Roose Bolton orders this:

 

 

Then we have this piece of information, when Stannis asks Theon if boys killed Aenys Frey. Theon answers:

 

 

What's Stannis smiling about? He's been given an idea, which he begins to explain here:

 

 

Then the ravens, who I assume are Bloodraven or Bran, begin to hint at the plan as well:

 

 

And where is the tree? Well, later in the chapter, Asha says:

 

 

Aaaand the ravens go bananas.

 

As far as the heads on the Winterfell walls go, seems fishy *wink wink*. Perhaps we now know the significance of why GRRM had the Manderlys mount "Davos" head on their walls. Fake head mounting seems their style, certainly, and that "evidence" would help the Manderlys' story once they returned to Winterfell to deceive the Boltons and spread word that Stannis was just outside the walls (invisible behind the snow).

 

All these little "truths" sprinkled throughout the Pink Letter are given substantial support from this chapter, and for me solidifies that Ramsay did indeed write the Pink Letter, just under false pretenses,

 

 

 

Also, consider this:

 

 

The parchment is a letter from Jon explaining Arnolf's treachery.

 

 

Here we see Stannis ordering Justin Massey to drop "Arya" off at Castle Black before heading off to Eastwatch because, as he explains, "A true king pays his debts."

 

He felt, even if it was to the most minuscule degree, indebted to Jon. What could possibly be the reason for sending "Arya" to Jon at Castle Black, then turning around and sending a raven (which would undoubtedly travel faster than Massey's company) to Castle Black with a deceptive message? If it was to draw Jon out, why send "Arya" to Castle Black in the first place? If Stannis truly believes he's a "true king", why would he pay his debt with deception? It makes no sense.

Pretty interesting theory, however there are some points that I don t agree.

First, just because they need 6 days to travel back and forth, this times doesn t add up to the time spent in battle. Then, no matter how little they care but neither bolton wold believe all freys died... At most they would believe that manderly killed them all afterwards. The problem with this theory is how many men can manderly bring back? Very few... and why would manderly break his army to destroy the freys? or is he going to say the freys attaked stannis without him and he then killed both armies?

 

Another problem is the timeframe. if we have 7 days of battle and 7 days of travel are we supposed to believe that jon's chapter is written at least 14 days and a ton of chapters before it happened ? it destroys the written timeline... Besides with that kind of time shouldn t "arya" already be at the wall?

 

Another problem with your theory is that even if stannis kills the freys and allies with manderly it won t change the situation inside winterfell. They need a stark for that, and if manderly thought that the northern lords would unite for rick and he had rickon then he wouldn t need stannis... After the failed independence with robb the northerns won t involve themselves in sotuhern fights easily... so he could slay the freys, tell everybody he has rickon safe, the true king of the north and tell the northerns to leave stannis (most reasonable action if he actually has rickon).

 

Even if stannis and manderly allie what is going to change in winterfel if they think stannis is dead? the northern lords are going to leave and stannis is going to attack a half deserted winterfell? It is possible... On the other hand the pink letter can actually be a ploy from stannis to make jon reinforce his army to take winterfell... once they see each other in front of winterfell there isn t more going back...

[The Fattest Leech]

Here is a timeline that while still only slightly being tweaked, is rather accurate. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsY3lcDDtTdBWp1Gx6mfkdtZT6-Gk0kdTGeSC_Dj7WM/htmlview#gid=8

[divica]

7 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Here is a timeline that while still only slightly being tweaked, is rather accurate. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsY3lcDDtTdBWp1Gx6mfkdtZT6-Gk0kdTGeSC_Dj7WM/htmlview#gid=8

How did you get the date of the battle of ice? Because that date is at least 3 days shorter than it has to be in the pink letter (7 days of battle + 3 for the army to bring heads and the sword)...

Edited June 22, 2017 by divica

[divica]

Just to add. If theon and asha do escape from stannis during the confusion of an attack then we don t have any pov for what happens to stannis. 

If this was grrm intention then the pink letter chapter should have been written after their escape... Personally, if the pink letter isn t written by someone trying to fool jon and is proven false very fast in a mel or jon pov or if we do have a pov of stannis fights while things happen in another timeline in the wall it will be very awkward to read.

[The Fattest Leech]

2 hours ago, divica said:

How did you get the date of the battle of ice? Because that date is at least 3 days shorter than it has to be in the pink letter (7 days of battle + 3 for the army to bring heads and the sword)...

That is a timeline that the *smarttest fans of this forum got together and made. It is updated as new, or detailed, info is given. There is a thread for this timeline to discuss facts or changes. When I find it I will send it to you. 

I just want to add that no one claims it is perfect, just close to it  

Edited June 22, 2017 by The Fattest Leech

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 6/22/2017 at 8:44 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

That is a timeline that the *smarttest fans of this forum got together and made. It is updated as new, or detailed, info is given. There is a thread for this timeline to discuss facts or changes. When I find it I will send it to you. 

I just want to add that no one claims it is perfect, just close to it  

Here is where a good deal of the discussion about the northern timeline in Dance/Winds begins...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/84563-most-precise-asoiaf-timeline-in-existence/&page=17

Here is the current thread...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145244-most-precise-asoiaf-timeline-v3/

 

[The Fattest Leech]

@divica, courtesy of Lost Melnibonean

Here is where a good deal of the discussion about the northern timeline in Dance/Winds begins...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/84563-most-precise-asoiaf-timeline-in-existence/&page=17

Here is the current thread...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145244-most-precise-asoiaf-timeline-v3/

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 6:30 AM, divica said:

How did you get the date of the battle of ice? Because that date is at least 3 days shorter than it has to be in the pink letter (7 days of battle + 3 for the army to bring heads and the sword)...

Battles don't last 7 days, that's not a thing.  3 days of marching on either side + 1 day of battle = 7.

[The Sleeper]

On 29/6/2017 at 5:21 AM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Battles don't last 7 days, that's not a thing.  3 days of marching on either side + 1 day of battle = 7.

It can if the enemy disperses in the woods, adopting guerilla tactics, while one is desperate to find his Reek and his bride.

[bemused]

From the "Even now, little things I've missed suddenly jump out at me" department .... (As I've probably said somewhere upthread, among other places)  I've long held the opinion that Stannis most likely wrote a letter to Jon from the field, but that it was intercepted at the wall by the conspirators (including Thorne) and Jon received an altered version - edited to suit the conspirators' ends.

I won't rehash all the possible clues in this chapter (Theon's opinions, ravens,etc.) or in Jon's last ADWD chapter (the appearance of the letter, Clydas behaviour, etc.) ... but a few days ago, while browsing the Theon chapter in ADWD, I noticed this..

"I see you all want blood," the Lord of the Dreadfort said. Maester Rhodry stood beside him, a raven on his arm. The bird's black plumage shone like coal oil in the torchlight. Wet Theon realized. And in his lordship's hand, a parchment. That will be wet as well.

Any letter sent to Jon at Castle Black from Stannis, or anyone at Winterfell would have travelled much farther in the snow storm and would certainly be wet, but neither Jon nor Tormund take note of this, in spite of noticing many other details.

Just one more sign that whoever wrote a letter to Jon, Jon did not receive it as it was originally written.

Edited December 28, 2017 by bemused

[John Courage]

All I really want from the battle at Winterfell, is to see Theon being given to the heart tree.

 

[Valyrian Lance]

I was just re-reading this chapter and noticed this little similarity:

Theon talking to Stannis about Ramsay

Quote

"Frey and Manderly will never combine their strengths. They will come for you, but separately. Lord Ramsay will not be far behind them. He wants his bride back. He wants his Reek." Theon's laugh was half a titter, half a whimper.

Compare that to the Pink Letter

Quote

I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want this wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek.

Maybe nothing. Maybe something.

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 7/11/2018 at 4:55 PM, Valyrian Lance said:

I was just re-reading this chapter and noticed this little similarity:

Theon talking to Stannis about Ramsay

Compare that to the Pink Letter

Maybe nothing. Maybe something.

I have seen this used to support the argument that Stannis authored the pink letter. 

[lavthelonewolf]

One thing that has been bugging me is that why the heck doesn’t theon say he never killed bran and rickon? Its frustrating everytime i see him think to himself about the miller’s boys but never says it out loud.. 

[kissdbyfire]

7 hours ago, lavthelonewolf said:

One thing that has been bugging me is that why the heck doesn’t theon say he never killed bran and rickon? Its frustrating everytime i see him think to himself about the miller’s boys but never says it out loud.. 

Perhaps Theon knows deep down that the murder of the miller's boys is even worse in a way, and certainly not a way to justify his actions. In fact, until Theon fully acknowledges how horrific it was to kill those innocent kids, I see no real redemption for him. And from what we saw in Dance, he will probably get there but he still has a ways to go. 

[Mithras]

Problems with “Seven Days of Battle” and “Three Days’ Ride” 

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII   

Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. 

 

Medieval battles did not last for days. The actual engagement between two armies may take hours, even a whole day. But usually, one of the armies is routed and the victorious army starts chasing down the routed army, which is the part that might go on for days. In some historical battles, actual fighting went on for days, by giving a break during the night. But I don’t think this will be the case for the Battle on Ice. 

As a side note, sometimes it would take many days for armies to meet each other, especially if they do not know where the other army was. The armies would keep moving, with scouts and possible skirmishes, which might have lasted for days until a preferable battleground is decided. But this is not the case for Stannis. He is not moving anywhere, even if he wants to. Roose knows where to find him thanks to the map sent by the Dreadfort maester. The letter also claims that Stannis is three days from Winterfell. 

According to the Pink Letter, Stannis was defeated in seven days of battle. The ongoing assumption about the seven days of battle is that the fighting lasted for a day and the remaining six days account for the arrival to and the return from the crofter’s village as it is stated to be three days ride away. Regardless of whether the battle really happened like this or not, the fandom considers this as the best explanation for the mindset of the author of the Pink Letter. 

This distance of three days ride is problematic for me. Let us have a look at where it comes from. 

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - The King’s Prize   

The storm did not abate. The march continued, slowing to a stagger, then a crawl. Five miles was a good day. Then three. Then two.  

By the ninth day of the storm, every camp saw the captains and commanders entering the king’s tent wet and weary, to sink to one knee and report their losses for the day.   

…   

On the twenty-sixth day of the fifteen-day march, the last of the vegetables was consumed. On the thirty-second day, the last of the grain and fodder. Asha wondered how long a man could live on raw, half-frozen horse meat.   

“Branch swears we are only three days from Winterfell,” Ser Richard Horpe told the king that night after the cold count.   

“If we leave the weakest men behind,” said Corliss Penny.   

“The weakest men are beyond saving,” insisted Horpe. “Those still strong enough must reach Winterfell or die as well.”   

…   

Finally, after a nightmarish day when the column advanced a bare mile and lost a dozen horses and four men, Lord Peasebury turned against the northmen.   

…   

The next day the king’s scouts chanced upon an abandoned crofters’ village between two lakes—a mean and meagre place, no more than a few huts, a longhall, and a watchtower. Richard Horpe commanded a halt, though the army had advanced no more than a half-mile that day and they were hours shy of dark. It was well past moonrise before the baggage train and rear guard straggled in. Asha was amongst them.   

A Dance with Dragons - The Sacrifice   

“Then go. You have my word, I will not run. Where would I go? To Winterfell?” Asha laughed. “Only three days’ ride, they tell me.”   

A Dance with Dragons - Theon I   

“Rather than use our swords upon each other, you might try them on Lord Stannis.” Lord Bolton unrolled the parchment. “His host lies not three days’ ride from here, snowbound and starving, and I for one am tired of waiting on his pleasure.”

 

It appears that at the thirty-second day of the march, Benjicot Branch claimed that they were three days ride from Winterfell. First of all, I don’t have any reason doubt his word. All the scouts and hunters given to Stannis by Lady Sybelle Glover seemed capable at their job. They know their wolfswood.  

This might be trivial but in the series, when the distance between two places is stated in units of horse riding, it goes without saying that the horse should be a healthy horse being ridden by a healthy rider under normal weather and road conditions. Sometimes a “hard ride” is mentioned in the text. This means the rider is in hurry (like delivering a message) and riding the horse to its limits under normal conditions. 

Reconsider the words of Richard Horpe and Corliss Penny. 

Quote

 

“Branch swears we are only three days from Winterfell,” Ser Richard Horpe told the king that night after the cold count.   

“If we leave the weakest men behind,” said Corliss Penny. 

 

Branch certainly said that they are three days ride from Winterfell. But did he also add the condition that if they leave the weakest men behind or is it a commentary by Corliss? The “If” is italic in the original text and it is possible to read the text such that Branch indeed added this condition to his calculation. This brings the question: did Branch use the three days ride (with or without the leaving the weakest men condition) under normal weather conditions or in the blizzard conditions they are currently in. Remember that at the beginning, they were able to cover some 20 miles a day. When their march came to a halt, they could only cover a mile or two in that terrible winter storm. Are we absolutely certain that the crofter’s village is some 60 miles away from Winterfell (based on the usual use of the unit “three days ride”) instead of some 6 miles away from Winterfell (based on the unusual and specific use of the unit “three days ride under their current condition”)? 

By the way, the winter storm is so severe that even the fresh troops of the Freys and Manderlys will not be able to come to the crofter’s village in three days. The snow is waist deep and the Freys will be extra slow and careful in their march after the death of Aenys Frey. Moreover, the green boys of Crowfood will give them further troubles on the road. Also it is not clear how much time passed between Tycho Nestoris finding Crowfood at Winterfell and coming to the crofter’s village from there with Theon and fArya. Tris only said it took “some time” to find the place. 

Another point is that even if the storm stops and the snows miraculously melt for some reason, it will still not be a three days ride journey for the Freys and Manderlys. So much snow melting so rapidly means that streams will be swollen and the roads will turn into mud. Remember they have to carry their baggage train to the battle and they can’t pull those carts across the mud. 

Speaking of which, if the Freys only took 7 days of provisions in their baggage train for the campaign according to the letter of Roose, they will definitely starve if the crofter’s village is not around 6 miles away from Winterfell according to the specific interpretation of the distance. 

Am I reading the text wrong? Even if this is the result of prematurely publishing ADwD without a proper editing, what is the correct way to solve this mystery? Did GRRM give enough consideration to the fact that it is impossible to cover the distance from Winterfell to the crofter’s village under those conditions within only three days? 

Finally, Roose commanded only the Freys and the Manderlys to march. But that is not necessarily his final saying in the matter. Theon said that Ramsay will be coming too and I have no reason to disagree with him. The march will be very slow due to the weather and extra caution they have to take because of Crowfood’s traps. This provides many days for the Boltons to torture Mance/spearwives and catch up with the marching armies later.

 

My solution 

I think the distance is within the 60 miles scale and it took far more than three days for the Freys to reach the crofter’s village, followed by the Manderlys and finally Ramsay riding in a row. As for seven days of battle, the first day saw the actual fighting which ended with the army of Stannis being routed (despite a lot of Freys drowning in the ice lake). I also expect desertion especially from the Peasebury men and Karstarks before the battle (will come to that in a moment). More should have fled at the night of the first day. During the following six days, Ramsay hunted down the routed army, killing and taking prisoners wherever he can. From these prisoners, and also possibly from Mance and the spearwives, Ramsay picked up the necessary terms in the Pink Letter (such as the wildling princess and the wildling prince). It is very unlikely that anyone who has not been to the Wall recently should know their existence. Furthermore, the way Ramsay refers to them speaks of the ignorance of the southrons about the wildlings. That should mean that the source of Ramsay on the existence of Val and Monster should be some southron knight in the army of Stannis, probably one of the queen's men. Furthermore, there is a significant gap between the impending execution of Theon, and Ramsay thinking that Reek is alive and well at the Wall and demanding him in the Pink Letter.  

Therefore, fArya (and Theon as I believe) left the village many days before the battle with the group of Massey. Not many people in the army of Stannis can be expected to see them leaving or know where they are going. For all they know, the people leaving the camp might be going to some northern castle or the Wall or across the sea or somewhere else or someone leaving the group on the way. Stannis does not share his plans with every single man in his army. Any random soldier Ramsay cannot be expected to tell him of their whereabouts. 

Until after the battle, Ramsay will have no reason or proof to believe that Stannis sent fArya and Theon somewhere else. He will not find any trace of them because of the winter storm. Besides, with deserters and the routed army all over the map as I argued, even if there were any tracks of Theon and fArya, Ramsay will not be able to tell who left them. Only after hunting down Stannis and the remnants of his army, Ramsay will be able to piece together that Stannis sent Theon and fArya to the Wall before the battle. But by this time, a couple of weeks will have passed since they left the village and it is impossible to hunt them down especially with this winter storm making it near impossible to leave tracks or dogs to pick up scent. Recall that even without winter, Bran evaded being captured by Ramsay's hunters because they evaded the kingsroad. 

The idea that Ramsay would go hunt Theon and fArya before such a proper setup stems from the failure to realize that the characters in the story cannot read the books just like the readers. Ramsay does not have these books. He has no way of knowing the whereabouts of Theon and fArya. His major evidence will be the confessions of Mance under torture plus the prisoners he will have caught from the army of Stannis who are privy to the plans with the departure. That is how Ramsay will know the involvement of Jon and be convinced that the runaways might have gone to the Wall. 

 

The Upcoming Desertion 

Before the Battle on Ice takes place, Lord Peasebury will desert with his remaining men and the leaderless Karstarks. 

Quote

 

Asha had been as horrified as the rest when the She-Bear told her that four Peasebury men had been found butchering one of the late Lord Fell’s, carving chunks of flesh from his thighs and buttocks as one of his forearms turned upon a spit, but she could not pretend to be surprised. The four were not the first to taste human flesh during this grim march, she would wager—only the first to be discovered. 

… 

“Too few fish and too many fishermen,” Lord Peasebury said gloomily. He had good reason for gloom; it was his men Ser Godry had just burned, and there were some in this very hall who had been heard to say that Peasebury himself surely knew what they were doing and might even have shared in their feasts. 

… 

It was the same argument as last night and the night before. _Press on and die, stay here and die, fall back and die._ 

“Feel free to perish as you wish, Humfrey,” said Justin Massey. “Myself, I would sooner live to see another spring.” 

“Some might call that craven,” Lord Peasebury replied. 

“Better a craven than a cannibal.” 

Peasebury’s face twisted in sudden fury. “You—” 

 

Above is all the textual evidence needed to understand that the four Peasebury men caught in the act of cannibalizing a corpse were not the only cannibals in the camp; in fact, Lord Peasebury was also eating human flesh along with his other men. Up to this point, cannibalism seemed like a “don’t ask don’t tell” thing in the camp. As long as it was done secretly, the men in the camp were ignoring cannibalism. What about Stannis though? 

Quote

 

“Your king gelds men for rape,” she reminded him. 

Ser Clayton chuckled. “The king’s half-blind from staring into fires.” 

 

I give this as metaphoric evidence that Stannis is not really aware of everything that is going on in the camp. Of course, this will come as blasphemy to those who gave themselves into the popular wishful theories according to which Stannis knows everything before they happen, is playing 10-D chess and will totally stomp the Boltons effortlessly. But the truth must be told and the truth is, Stannis had not left his watchtower in the last four days until he appeared to observe the burning of the cannibals and he quickly returned afterwards. 

Quote

 

“Have you lost your faith in red R’hllor?” 

“I have lost faith in more than that,” Massey said,

 

Specifically, Justin Massey has become “as formidable as a loose stool”. But of all the people, Stannis chooses this man and sends him away to Braavos. Massey is aching for a way out. This shows how clueless Stannis has become about his men. He truly became half-blind by isolating himself into his solar and staring into the fires. 

Every night, the men let out all sorts of treasonous talk but Stannis is not notified about them (unless you want to argue that Stannis knows all about the cannibalism and the talk of defeat but lets it slide). I won’t give all the quotes but if you have a quick look at The Sacrifice chapter, you will see how desperate the situation seems to a lot of men. Those who think like Justin will not simply sit down and embrace death (unlike the northmen). Among the southrons, there are red god fanatics and there are brave men. These might be expected to stick with Stannis till the bitter end but there are also cravens and cannibals. They are the weakest link in the army. Cravens are cravens. After the burning, the cannibals also lost faith. 

Quote

“One of Lord Peasebury's men was killed, and two of mine were wounded. If it please Your Grace, though, the men are growing anxious. There are hundreds of them gathered around the tower, wondering what's happened. Talk of treason is on every lip. No one knows who to trust, or who might be arrested next. The northmen especially—“ 

After the Karstark leadership is apprehended, the camp starts boiling. Stannis thinks that the Karstark treachery is averted but these Karstark men are now leaderless, suspected of treason by the other men in the camp. Traitors or not, Arnolf was their leader and the Karstark men will not like the execution of Arnolf, no more than the Karstarks reacting to the execution of Lord Rickard by Robb. 

As a result, at the very night of the Theon sample chapter from TWoW, the Karstark men, the cravens and the cannibals who would do anything to escape burning at the pyre will desert. This will be revealed at the beginning of the fragmentary Asha chapter we saw. But the fate of the deserters is another matter.  

The deserters, much like the mutineers at Craster’s, will try to go separate ways. One of the greatest benefits of this desertion scenario is that just as mentioned in the Pink Letter, the battle will truly take seven days. The Battle on Ice will be concluded one way or the other in a quick manner. The rest of the “seven days of battle” will be reserved to Boltons tracking down and killing the deserters and survivors who make it out alive from the Battle on Ice. In the process, Ramsay will take southron captives from the deserters he tracked down like the Peasebury men.  

It is very important that Ramsay catches and flays such Southron captives. This is perhaps the only reasonable source from where Ramsay would catch the terms “the wildling princess” and “the wildling prince” as mentioned in the Pink Letter. I think Mance and the spearwives are definitely caught by the Boltons but they will not refer to Val and Mance’s son as such. Ramsay needs a Southron mouth for that. 

Finally, seven days long skirmishes and hunting of the deserters/survivors will provide Stannis the chance to flee and fake his death by leaving fLightbringer behind as proof of his death. Only after that Ramsay will return to Winterfell to write the Pink Letter.

 

The Battle on Ice 

According to the Pink Letter,  

* Stannis dies off-screen,

* Stannis would normally execute Theon but he is reported to have fled (again off-screen). 

All of these really suck. The most important reason why the readers are looking for additional explanations for the Pink Letter is that we obviously do not have all the pieces for this mystery. Even if the Pink Letter is not meant to be a mystery, it is still a failure of editing because that intent certainly does not work for most of the readers. 

Quote

 

TWoW Theon I

Preps for the Battle on Ice. 

TWoW Asha I

Theon is brought before the weirwood tree. He confesses the truth about the boys he killed. His story is confirmed. Theon asks to take the black. The Northmen grudgingly raise their voices in favor. Stannis spares Theon and sends him to the Wall along with Massey’s party. Many days pass before the battle starts. Cold count skyrockets. Starvation and cannibalism run rampart. The morale in the camp gets worse and worse. Desertions start. Karstark and Peasebury men are chief among the deserters. Finally the Freys arrive. Battle on Ice starts. Ranks of Stannis are composed of hungry and weak soldiers. He has considerably weakened and depleted host. The only hindrance for the Freys is the winter storm and the deep snowfall. Frey vanguard breaks the enemy easily. The host of Stannis is routed. Survivors flee all over the frozen lakes. Freys give them chase. This is when the ice breaks. Both the fleeing men and their pursuers drown by the hundreds. The Freys still have their reserves and supply train intact. Asha spots the Manderly knights charging to battle. 

 

If we had the above chapters in ADwD, the Pink Letter would have worked much better. The immediate impression of the readers would be that the Pink Letter is true. Only in rereads, some fans might consider that the Manderlys might have attacked the Freys instead of Stannis, which would put the contents of the Pink Letter under suspicion.

[Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers]

On 6/21/2017 at 9:02 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

Here is a timeline that while still only slightly being tweaked, is rather accurate. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsY3lcDDtTdBWp1Gx6mfkdtZT6-Gk0kdTGeSC_Dj7WM/htmlview#gid=8

This is a pretty amazing timeline tysm