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[TWOW SPOILERS] Theon I, part vi

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I can only assume that Stannis ends up losing the battle for Winterfell, nothing EVER goes how you want it to in GOT. But and this is only wishfull thinking, maybe thats when Martin decides to turn the massive wolf pack lead by Nymeria loose on the Boltons. And hopefuly some of it happens in Winterfells Godswood. That would please the old gods. And me!

I realy hope Martin reintroduces Nymeria and her pack during or after the Winterfell battle. That would seem to be the perfect time and place.

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Not sure about anyone else, but in this chapter I found one of the most Earth-shattering events to take place so far in this series.........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.......Stannis smiled!

 

I know, right? Commence "Stannis is warged crackpot:: LOL!

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What I took from this is:

 

- Stannis wrote the Pink Letter

- Asha has been swayed by Theon's words about the Old gods knowing his name, which is why she tempts Stannis to execute Theon in front of the Weirwood.

- Theon being executed before the Weirwood is the chance for Bran to come into play, telling Stannis that Theon is innocent..

 

The thing with the Pink Letter is obvious at this point:

- Dreadfort Maester = Pink wax

- Three crows = Dreadfort, X, and the one to Winterfell already left.. Guess where Crow X is going?

- Theon says he told them everything about the bard and the washerwomen that weren't washerwomen. So Stannis knows about Mance's presence.

- "He wants his bride, he wants his Reek".

 

Jon lied to Stannis. Stannis isn't the forgiving type.. This letter would either get him his wife and daughter from the wall as he gets done with the North, or at least the Wall..

Stannis is sending (f)Arya to the wall with a host of people. How would Stannis send a fake letter to Jon and Jenye poole and her party not be there?

 

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On 19 June 2015 at 0:27 PM, The sword of the twilight said:

I am deeply troubled for Stannis after watching the last episode. Stannis in show, i find, is a very weak character in contrast with books. One of the best, if not the best, military commander beaten by Ramsay Bolton (Unbelievable)...What does this mean for Stannis in books? Does this hint that Northern Clans are going to abandon Stannis because they want Theon executed, which i believe stannis is hesitant to do so at the moment.

 

 

 

 

P.S this is my first post on this forum. Be Nice! :bang:

 

 

All of Stannis' remaining story will go to Jon and maybe some to LF. It's enough to make one gag but there you go. 

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I thought Ahsa is planning to kill Stannis (she gave him a chance to just give Theon up, but well) and free Theon at the Weirwood. She has her two guys (or are there more? ...I'm a one time reader) and her suitor didn't seem so impressed with Stannis either, maybe he'll help. Of course most likely logical outcome is failure, but who cares, he is her little brother and she'll save him or die trying.

The knowledge about Ned and the ways of the north are surprising, but I agree she could have it from the Mormont girl. It is even a likely topic for conversation with people getting burned alive in Stannis' camp. People might be motivated to discuss the superior way of excecution in their culture. 

Of course I hope Bran will get into the action, or already is - like in the raven,  but for Asha to just be his sockpuppet with no agency of her own would be very dissapointing.

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On 29 April 2016 at 8:24 AM, ftheking said:

I thought Ahsa is planning to kill Stannis (she gave him a chance to just give Theon up, but well) and free Theon at the Weirwood. She has her two guys (or are there more? ...I'm a one time reader) and her suitor didn't seem so impressed with Stannis either, maybe he'll help. Of course most likely logical outcome is failure, but who cares, he is her little brother and she'll save him or die trying.

The knowledge about Ned and the ways of the north are surprising, but I agree she could have it from the Mormont girl. It is even a likely topic for conversation with people getting burned alive in Stannis' camp. People might be motivated to discuss the superior way of excecution in their culture. 

Of course I hope Bran will get into the action, or already is - like in the raven,  but for Asha to just be his sockpuppet with no agency of her own would be very dissapointing.

That's Justin Massey, and he is on his way to the Wall first, to deliver fArya to Jon, and from there to Braavos to hire sellswords. 

And I think it would be extremely odd for Asha not to know how the Starks carry out executions. 

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I finally got round to reading this. I'm working on a combined Feast/Dance/Winds reading order, and I gleaned that this took place before Jon's last chapter so I've put it a few chapters behind it. I was a bit disappointed as I'd heard mention that the Pink Letter theories rested on this chapter, so I was hoping it was gonna prove Stannis wrote it and therefore he was alive and well......well, it's not conclusive.

There's a lot of good points to the theory, but I can't shake the lack of motive. Is he trying to get a significant enough army from them to make a difference in the battle? Despite Castle Black not contributing an army to anything other than beyond the wall for thousands of years? Even if they hadn't 'killed' Jon, and had by some miracle agreed to abandon the far greater threat to the North, how far away are they? What's stopping them getting stuck in the same snow that's preventing Stannis from going anywhere? It all seems too elaborate for such an unlikely chance at such a small reward. And the Mance part doesn't quite fit, I don't see any reason to think that Theon found out who Abel was. And I'm not buying that Stannis was in on the switcheroo. He was a deserter, laws should be made of iron, not of pudding.

It also seems odd to have such crucial chronology out of order for GRRM, I can only assume the plan was to include the battle but still end the book with Jon's stabbing, and so he had to shuffle things around.

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6 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I finally got round to reading this. I'm working on a combined Feast/Dance/Winds reading order, and I gleaned that this took place before Jon's last chapter so I've put it a few chapters behind it. I was a bit disappointed as I'd heard mention that the Pink Letter theories rested on this chapter, so I was hoping it was gonna prove Stannis wrote it and therefore he was alive and well......well, it's not conclusive.

There's a lot of good points to the theory, but I can't shake the lack of motive. Is he trying to get a significant enough army from them to make a difference in the battle? Despite Castle Black not contributing an army to anything other than beyond the wall for thousands of years? Even if they hadn't 'killed' Jon, and had by some miracle agreed to abandon the far greater threat to the North, how far away are they? What's stopping them getting stuck in the same snow that's preventing Stannis from going anywhere? It all seems too elaborate for such an unlikely chance at such a small reward. And the Mance part doesn't quite fit, I don't see any reason to think that Theon found out who Abel was. And I'm not buying that Stannis was in on the switcheroo. He was a deserter, laws should be made of iron, not of pudding.

It also seems odd to have such crucial chronology out of order for GRRM, I can only assume the plan was to include the battle but still end the book with Jon's stabbing, and so he had to shuffle things around.

I'm not sure here, but were you looking for clues that Stannis wrote the PL? I never thought he did, I think Ramsay wrote it, but... while I think Ramsay wrote it, I don't think everything is true. For instance, I think Ramsay is sure Stannis is dead, only he isn't. And Ramsay probably thinks this because of some scheme, likely involving Stannis himself. 

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27 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I'm not sure here, but were you looking for clues that Stannis wrote the PL? I never thought he did, I think Ramsay wrote it, but... while I think Ramsay wrote it, I don't think everything is true. For instance, I think Ramsay is sure Stannis is dead, only he isn't. And Ramsay probably thinks this because of some scheme, likely involving Stannis himself. 

Yea it was just a muddled conclusion I'd come to from reading other posts about the chapter without reading it. I think I probably agree that Ramsay under false impressions is most likely. Although I do wonder; is there any reason to suspect he didn't? Why did all the conspiracy theories start, other than the fact it'd be lame if such an important character was unceremoniously killed off through a letter?

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4 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Yea it was just a muddled conclusion I'd come to from reading other posts about the chapter without reading it. I think I probably agree that Ramsay under false impressions is most likely. Although I do wonder; is there any reason to suspect he didn't? Why did all the conspiracy theories start, other than the fact it'd be lame if such an important character was unceremoniously killed off through a letter?

Some people just enjoy cracking pots :P 

Edited by Veltigar

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On 7/25/2015 at 3:44 PM, AL13NM said:

I realy hope Martin reintroduces Nymeria and her pack during or after the Winterfell battle. That would seem to be the perfect time and place.

The wolfpack is loose in the Riverlands. Chekov's gun will likely be aimed in the direction of Lannister of Frey forces.

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5 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Yea it was just a muddled conclusion I'd come to from reading other posts about the chapter without reading it. I think I probably agree that Ramsay under false impressions is most likely. Although I do wonder; is there any reason to suspect he didn't? Why did all the conspiracy theories start, other than the fact it'd be lame if such an important character was unceremoniously killed off through a letter?

I think part of it is that a cigar is never just a cigar around here! :P

Honestly, though, my impression is that people look too hard at everything, and start finding 'clues' everywhere. Lots of the arguments I've seen in favour of Ramsay not being the author of the PL revolve around the wording and Ramsay's handwriting. I never really found either argument compelling. 

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I don't think Asha is planning to kill Stannis - in any case, as a prisoner herself, she is in no position to do so. After all, he's spared her when he could have executed her, and he's treated her and the ironborn prisoners reasonably well - even allowing some of them to be ransomed to serve as bodyguards for Tycho Nestoris.

It is clear, from the fact that Stannis has talked to her, (a) he considers her worth talking to, and (b) he recognises her situation as different from Theon's: while she was an "enemy" to the North, she does not have the additional angle of having been a betrayer from a position of trust, as Theon was (both from having been a ward / hostage, and also from having been sent as a trusted envoy by one who considered him a friend.) Also, there were no mass murders and sackings from her, on the contrary, she treated the prisoners of Deepwood Motte reasonably well - possibly upon finding that their leader was a woman (Sybil Glover) - and has even been back to the Iron Isles and openly stated that, having taken part in the attack on the North, she now believes it was a foolish thing to have started. At the Kingsmoot, she argued *against* the position that she had followed under Balon. Thus, she is an ironborn person that the north and indeed Stannis can negotiate with in good faith.

In fact Asha's suggestion to Stannis, of executing Theon under the heartwood tree, would most likely win him Northern support and cement the alliance. She knows that there is no hope of the North or Stannis letting him go - the only hope of his escape is in the confusion of an attack, but then he would most likely be recaptured by the victor, and Stannis or the Northern Clans would be a more merciful option than falling back into the hands of the Boltons. Stannis is so far holding back on executing Theon, but he has good, sound military reasons for doing so, which should be enough to satisfy the Northern Clans: namely, Theon may actually understand more of how the Boltons are likely to think and act, and his knowledge could prove useful.

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As far as I am concerned the Pink Letter has been thoroughly explained by Buried Treasure. Ramsey has found out about the deception regarding Mance Rayder and believes that Jon is in possession of Jeyne Poole and Theon and thus is in a position to uncover the Bolton fraud in claiming Winterfell. Thus he is trying to force an exchange to maintain his secrets. Jon of course having not seen either Jeyne nor Reek, has no idea what Ramsay is talking about.

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Have you discussed the reason behind the strange timing of this chapter? I mean, why did he not include the Theon chapter in ADwD if it happened before the chapter with Jons assassination?

My feeling is that the Theon story is tightly linked to the upcoming battle of WF and that the reason is that it serves well as an introduction to the battle. Can there be a specific setup of the Theon execution at the islet with the weirwoods that leads to a series of events?

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@Missandei M

Jon's chapter had to be included for dramatic effect. I mean it's pretty hardcore and it ended his arc with a bang. In Theon's chapter however we know that Theon is not heading for Castle Black so we'd have definite proof that somthing was wrong with the Pink Letter.

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21 hours ago, Missandei M said:

Have you discussed the reason behind the strange timing of this chapter? I mean, why did he not include the Theon chapter in ADwD if it happened before the chapter with Jons assassination?

My feeling is that the Theon story is tightly linked to the upcoming battle of WF and that the reason is that it serves well as an introduction to the battle. Can there be a specific setup of the Theon execution at the islet with the weirwoods that leads to a series of events?

I think the reason the Theon chapter was not inlcuded is because at the end of Winds it looks like Stannis looses and the Boltons triumph, so when we get Winds and all of a sudden we see Stannis win it will be much more surprising and rewarding.

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4 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I think the reason the Theon chapter was not inlcuded is because at the end of Winds it looks like Stannis looses and the Boltons triumph, so when we get Winds and all of a sudden we see Stannis win it will be much more surprising and rewarding.

I dunno.  I was never convinced that Stannis was actually dead.  i think this chapter is closely connected to the Battle of Ice, and the author wanted all of the chapters dealing with the battle to be in the same book.  Also, this chapter was releases shortly after the publication of ADWD, iirc.

As for the contents of the chapter itself, I think that Theon is not going to last long.  He will either get burned or Stannis will cut his head off in front of a heart tree.  But I think he is a goner  I think Jeyne Poole will arrive at Castle Black shortly after Jon's stabbing, and will continue on to Braavos with the Banker and Massey without being able to meet Jon.  With Ramsay on the warpath, the NW probably isn't going to want her around.  I think she'll meet Arya and move Arya's story forward and back to Westeros.

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8 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I dunno.  I was never convinced that Stannis was actually dead.  i think this chapter is closely connected to the Battle of Ice, and the author wanted all of the chapters dealing with the battle to be in the same book.  Also, this chapter was releases shortly after the publication of ADWD, iirc.

As for the contents of the chapter itself, I think that Theon is not going to last long.  He will either get burned or Stannis will cut his head off in front of a heart tree.  But I think he is a goner  I think Jeyne Poole will arrive at Castle Black shortly after Jon's stabbing, and will continue on to Braavos with the Banker and Massey without being able to meet Jon.  With Ramsay on the warpath, the NW probably isn't going to want her around.  I think she'll meet Arya and move Arya's story forward and back to Westeros.

I don't think Stannis is dead, but I'm not so sure Theon will die early on in Winds. I think he still has a part to play.

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

I don't think Stannis is dead, but I'm not so sure Theon will die early on in Winds. I think he still has a part to play.

To be honest, I'm a lot less certain about Theon's status than I am about Stannis's, so I wouldn't be too surprised if he hangs around for a while.  I do expect him to die before the end of  Winds, though.

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