[TWOW Spoilers] NEW Chapter Discussion - "Mercy"

[kephv]

This chapter read like something akin to a mixture of Stephen King and Shakespeare, with GRRM's classic foreshadowing and hidden references everywhere. I am so excited about TWOW! Very impressive.

So it is basically confirmed that the FM are working against the ruling family of Westeros, and I am going to make the jump and say the IB is funding this. So they did make true on their promise to support Stannis's cause.

Don't know if it's confirmed, but it's possible that she had a mission there.

or feeling any kind of lust....

Except for blood: "she wanted him so bad."

Finally, if Martin doesn't take this perfect opportunity to get our girl to Westeros I'd be pissed

She could have, and probably still could, go back to Westeros any time she wants. That she even bothered to go back to the play says she'll be staying there for some time to come.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Most people think Mercy was playing a version of Sansa, but isn't it more likely she was playing Tysha?

But, who knows about Tysha? For what I remember, it's not something Tywin would let everybody knows.

She has just learned to use sex as a weapon because that's what she has seen and learned.. but I repeat, she doesn't think of wanting to have sex, or feeling any kind of lust....

That's kinda worst, I think.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Thanks!

Like I've pointed out before, this isn't necessarily the end for hopes of her becoming a sweeter kinder person. I think there'll be some kind of trigger (meeting Jon, for example) and all the repressed memories will come rushing back, and she will begin to become a Stark once more.

Nah i really dont think she'll ever be the same person she was again. Her Starkitude lies with the wolf hunting for prey. While i do think she'll remember herself eventually, its not gonna be plucky Arya in Jon's memory. (or ours) And thats whats so sad about it.

...The more I think about it, the less convinced I am that Arya was playing Sansa. Bummer. I thought that was awesome, in a horrible kind of way. So dark! But nope, I got ahead of myself. Oh, well.

Yeah sorry. "Lady Stork" is the Sansa character.

She has just learned to use sex as a weapon because that's what she has seen and learned.. but I repeat, she doesn't think of wanting to have sex, or feeling any kind of lust....

No she doesnt quite feel lust or urges, but she is willing to go that far. Thats a new development for her and shows that her mind is maturing in that kind of manner. (in a really fucked up, twisted way.)

[Keishi of Oldstones]

As for Arya's indifference she's seen rape in Harrenhal. She's seen Pia having sex and be raped and she hung out in brothels so she could be desensitized at this point.

exactly

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

Holy shit I got chills when he addressed her as Arya at the end. What a chapter, this may even beat the Theon sample chapter.

Also was that needle at the end of the chapter?

[Slayer of Lies]

"Clay" could also suggest greyscale, no?

Caught that notion too, though I highly doubt Tyrion will die of greyscale, or contract it at all.

The angle here would be that Tyrion is "different" from his "golden" sire and siblings, and made of "darker stuff" perhaps like the Mad King.

No. Stop that.

Sorry?

[Newstar]

No she doesnt quite feel lust or urges, but she is willing to go that far. Thats a new development for her and shows that her mind is maturing in that kind of manner. (in a really fucked up, twisted way.)

It seems strange that Cersei gave Sansa the advice to use the weapon between her legs, but it's her younger sister who starts doing so, at around the same age Sansa was in AGOT. Sansa could very well start doing the same, I suppose, but it says something about how fucked up things are that her sister, two years her junior and probably around eleven, beat Sansa to the punch.

Caught that notion too, though I highly doubt Tyrion will die of greyscale, or contract it at all.

I went back through the books and looked for some sort of link between clay and greyscale, but I found nothing.

The angle here would be that Tyrion is "different" from his "golden" sire and siblings, and made of "darker stuff" perhaps like the Mad King.

You'd expect some black and red imagery, then, instead of bones (white) and clay (grey or red).

[ac_sky_dc]

I would like to know why you suggest that Arya is leaving the faceless men

[Keishi of Oldstones]

I like to think that maybe her target was Swyft and that the key that she had was to the door to the private box. Maybe the Bank of Bravoss hired the FM to kill Swyft as a big FU to Cersei. But she saw Raff and it was too good to pass up.

[Fire Eater]

As I said in another thread, there's a certain significance to Arya spending time in a mummer's troupe-since Varys was in one during his childhood, and it taught him a lot about stage management and acting which were very useful to him at the Red Keep. Could Arya's time with Izembaro be foreshadowing that someday she might be Master of Whispers?

That's the role I imagine her seeing in on Jon's small council.

Shivering, she sat up in bed and ran a hand across her scalp. Stubble bristled against her palm. I need to shave before Izembaro sees. Mercy, I’m Mercy, and tonight I’ll be raped and murdered.

Varys shaves his head, and I imagine Arya will run into him again and learn the passages of the RK and a few things from him under the guise of one of his little birds.

You’ll need to carry me.”

See? thought Mercy. You know your line, and so do I.

“Think so?” asked Arya, sweetly.

In a similar vein as "She didn't hurt you . . . much."

[Slayer of Lies]

You'd expect some black and red imagery, then, instead of bones (white) and clay (grey or red).

For sure, if it was meant to be blatant, a direct analog, or insinuate the playwright knew something no one else did, which would be going too far.

Instead, I keyed in on the playwright's (and GRRM's) distinction of Tyrion as "different" and "darker" from Tywin, Jaime and Cersei, beyond just his height.

It's not much on its own, but if T=T plays out, it'd be a smack in the face on a reread.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

You’ll need to carry me.”

See? thought Mercy. You know your line, and so do I.

“Think so?” asked Arya, sweetly.

In a similar vane as "She didn't hurt you . . . much."

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

And yes it certainly is in the same vein.

Whatever I end up deciding I feel about the rest of this chapter, this moment is already up there with "Edd Fetch Me A Block" for me. And even though I'll know it's coming, I'll relish this passage all the same when TWOW comes out and I read it all over again.

[Newstar]

Great possible catch from Ser Wun Wun on the previous thread, predicting that Arya's exchange with Bobono means that Arya is definitely going to meet Tyrion:

It puts the whole "No one heard. No one answered. No one cared" line from Tyrion's latest preview chapter in an entirely new perspective.

I'm not 100% sold on Arya meeting Tyrion--the interaction with a dwarf mummer playing Tyrion might be as close as she ever gets--but it sure sounds like Arya's going to run into Dany ("I would like to see a dragon") and if Tyrion happens to be with her by then, then, well...

...Of course, if that line from Tyrion's POV is predictive, that kind of implies Arya will be sympathetic towards Tyrion, and that seems rather unlikely to me.

For the Avatar: The Last Airbender fans out there, was anyone reminded by the play of the Ember Island Players episode?

[Frances Bean Corbray]

For sure, if it was meant to be blatant, a direct analog, or insinuate the playwright knew something no one else did, which would be going too far.

Instead, I keyed in on the playwright's (and GRRM's) distinction of Tyrion as "different" and "darker" from Tywin, Jaime and Cersei, beyond just his height.

It's not much on its own, but if T=T plays out, it'd be a smack in the face on a reread.

So Tyrion, who some folks on this very forum have thought draws influence from Richard III as Shakespeare depicted him (at least, in how others see him as "the monster"), is now depicted in a very Shakespeare's Richard III-ish manner in a play within a play (one of Shakespeare's pet devices).

Just sayin if GRRM ever wants to release the screenplay for "The Bloody Hand" as supplemental material, I'd probably buy it. :D

[JonCon's Red Beard]

It seems strange that Cersei gave Sansa the advice to use the weapon between her legs, but it's her younger sister who starts doing so, at around the same age Sansa was in AGOT. Sansa could very well start doing the same, I suppose, but it says something about how fucked up things are that her sister, two years her junior and probably around eleven, beat Sansa to the punch.

Well, if George "dared" to go there with Arya who is a child, I don't doubt now he might do the same with Sansa, who is legally a woman in Westeros now. Kinda disturbing, actually, but... his universe, his rules

[Slayer of Lies]

Just sayin if GRRM ever wants to release the screenplay for "The Bloody Hand" as supplemental material, I'd probably buy it. :D

Beyond that, I'd easily pay $5 a chapter if it meant I could finish the series this week, one "buy it now" button at a time.

[laguna80]

Great possible catch from Ser Wun Wun on the previous thread, predicting that Arya's exchange with Bobono means that Arya is definitely going to meet Tyrion:

I'm not 100% sold on Arya meeting Tyrion--the interaction with a dwarf mummer playing Tyrion might be as close as she ever gets--but it sure sounds like Arya's going to run into Dany ("I would like to see a dragon") and if Tyrion happens to be with her by then, then, well...

...Of course, if that line from Tyrion's POV is predictive, that kind of implies Arya will be sympathetic towards Tyrion, and that seems rather unlikely to me.

For the Avatar: The Last Airbender fans out there, was anyone reminded by the play of the Ember Island Players episode?

I do remember that. The Avatar was played like a girl, was friendzoned by Katara and Katara wanted Zuko I think?

[Pod The Rod]

Nah i really dont think she'll ever be the same person she was again. Her Starkitude lies with the wolf hunting for prey. While i do think she'll remember herself eventually, its not gonna be plucky Arya in Jon's memory. (or ours) And thats whats so sad about it.

I don't think she'll be the same. I never said that. What I did say is that I retain hope that she may regain some semblance of normalcy, and not be quite this much of a soulless psychopath at some point. She'll be permanently scarred, but better, if you get what I'm trying to say.

[Newstar]

So Tyrion, who some folks on this very forum have thought draws influence from Richard III as Shakespeare depicted him (at least, in how others see him as "the monster"), is now depicted in a very Shakespeare's Richard III-ish manner in a play within a play (one of Shakespeare's pet devices).

Just sayin if GRRM ever wants to release the screenplay for "The Bloody Hand" as supplemental material, I'd probably buy it. :D

Yeah, it's pretty meta. And I would also read the screenplay for "The Bloody Hand." Demonic boar fight? Sold!

Well, if George "dared" to go there with Arya who is a child, I don't doubt now he might do the same with Sansa, who is legally a woman in Westeros now. Kinda disturbing, actually, but... his universe, his rules

I can't help but suspect that this chapter would have been almost exactly the same if the five-year time jump had been preserved, with the only difference being that 15/16-year-old Arya would actually have had sex with Raff before killing him. God only knows what 15/16-year-old Arya would have gotten up to, if GRRM was willing to sexualize 11-year-old Arya to this extent after sacrificing the time skip.

GRRM has ruled out any POV rapes, and he seems to draw the line for young women in Westeros being able to consent to sex at 14 or so (Arianne consensually lost her virginity at 14, Tysha was 14 when she had consensual sex with Tyrion after their marriage, etc. etc.); Dany was an unusual case. Arya's "safe," since it's unlikely she'll hit 14 before the end of the books. Sansa? She's still 13, but not for long.

I do remember that. The Avatar was played like a girl, was friendzoned by Katara and Katara wanted Zuko I think?

Yup. Also, Toph was played by a big, tough guy.

[laguna80]

Beyond that, I'd easily pay $5 a chapter if it meant I could finish the series this week, one "buy it now" button at a time.

I think I would too. I'm actually glad I got into this series late instead of when it JUST came out back in the 90's.