Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

TeamMartell

[TWOW Spoilers] NEW Chapter Discussion - "Mercy"

Recommended Posts

did this chapter make anyone else kind of sad?



she was even more detached than usual, and it was kinda heart-wrenching to see how far she was willing to go to kill Raff...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am i the only one who thought that Arya became an actual whore(only in the beginning)? I was all What. The. Fuck.




ETA: that chapter was better than all of Dance(minus Jon Ch), imo


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I heard the title The Bloody Hand, I thought it meant Ned Stark at first.



Still not sure about the allusions to Cersei in the chapter, didn't Kevan say that should she win her trial by combat she'd be shipped off to Casterly Rock anyway? Unless Raff's information is a little outdated but it shouldn't be if Harys Swyft was in KL at the same time as Kevan's murder.



Kinda feels like trying to work out the picture on a jigsaw when you've only got five pieces out of a hundred :blink:


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am i the only one who thought that Arya became an actual whore(only in the beginning)? I was all What. The. Fuck.

Yeah, that creeped me out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am i the only one who thought that Arya became an actual whore(only in the beginning)? I was all What. The. Fuck.

I thought that as well... and was shocked...so after all these Weddings and beheadings GRRM can still surprise me..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

did this chapter make anyone else kind of sad?

she was even more detached than usual, and it was kinda heart-wrenching to see how far she was willing to go to kill Raff...

yes. this isnt what i want for her

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

she was even more detached than usual

Particularly since she's apparently playing her sister getting raped and murdered, and has no evident reaction to it at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still not sure about the allusions to Cersei in the chapter, didn't Kevan say that should she win her trial by combat she'd be shipped off to Casterly Rock anyway? Unless Raff's information is a little outdated but it shouldn't be if Harys Swyft was in KL at the same time as Kevan's murder.

That plan probably died with Kevan; after his assassination, I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei resumed her regency....after all that's what Varys was banking on; Cersei coming back into power so she could resume running the Lannister/Tyrell regime into the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“If he goes back without the gold the queen will have his head."

Since Mace Tyrell was the Hand at the end of ADWD, and there's really no logical way for Cersei to regain her Regency power in King's Landing, I'm wondering if this is a logical inconsistency left over from one of the many rewrites. (That, or this guardsman simply doesn't know what he's talking about, and has been a Lannister guard for so long that he assumes Cersei has more power than she actually has post-Walk.) This chapter was originally slotted for ADWD, but clearly the Epilogue means it, and the overarching storylines, were re-done. Perhaps the "original" storyline had Cersei sending Swyft to Braavos, not Kevan? (That could explain why the mummers are putting on a play called "The Bloody Hand" here. Swyft was at one point Cersei's Hand. And that would explain the heavy emphasis on Tyrion, since Swyft and Tyrion followed the same career trajectory (Hand to Master of Coin).)

I'd be curious to know when this was written. Back in 2001, GRRM said: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1157

There are a few in the volume I'm presently working on that readers haven't seen yet... a guy who calls himself King of the Mummers, frinstance... another one who is called Harry the Heir... these are informal titles, though, on a par with the Knight of Flowers or the Kingslayer, and so on...

ASOS was published in 2000, so George originally mentioned Izembaro while writing AFFC. He might have originally written this chapter back when he thought AFFC and ADWD would be one book, and the storylines have shifted quite a bit, with this one comment a leftover that GRRM missed.

Interesting, though they would choose *that* subject matter to entertain a Westerosi delegation...it doesn't reflect well on the Lannister regime to put it kindly

If Phario Forel is related to Syrio Forel, that could be the entire point. The Lannister regime murdered Syrio. His relatives in Braavos are likely quite pissed off.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei resumed her regency....after all that's what Varys was banking on; Cersei coming back into power so she could resume running the Lannister/Tyrell regime into the ground.

Varys desperately needs Cersei to lose her trial. If Cersei wins her trial, King Tommen is recognized as the legitimate Baratheon heir, and the Tyrells (and other Houses) can safely continue to side with the Lannisters. But if Cersei loses her trial, then the Faith declares Tommen a bastard with no claim to the Iron Throne, and as the Faith obviously can't support Stannis, that means the Faith has no choice but to support Aegon. Varys killed Kevan to keep him from fixing Cersei's mistakes, not to put Cersei back in power to make more mistakes. With Mace Tyrell as Hand, Aegon's already facing an incompetent foe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Always nice to see moments of meticulous revenge happening, but Arya's arc is always getting ever more unrealistic.



Who's to say what's unrealistic when someone's dealing with the FM, but anyway...


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That plan probably died with Kevan; after his assassination, I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei resumed her regency....after all that's what Varys was banking on; Cersei coming back into power so she could resume running the Lannister/Tyrell regime into the ground.

The references to "the queen" are intriguing. For a moment there I was unsure if it was Kevan or Cersei that had sent Ser Harys to Braavos. If was Kevan, which means that Cersei was already detained by the Faith when he left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since Mace Tyrell was the Hand at the end of ADWD, and there's really no logical way for Cersei to regain her Regency power in King's Landing, I'm wondering if this is a logical inconsistency left over from one of the many rewrites. (That, or this guardsman simply doesn't know what he's talking about, and has been a Lannister guard for so long that he assumes Cersei has more power than she actually has post-Walk.) This chapter was originally slotted for ADWD, but clearly the Epilogue means it, and the overarching storylines, were re-done. Perhaps the "original" storyline had Cersei sending Swyft to Braavos, not Kevan? (That could explain why the mummers are putting on a play called "The Bloody Hand" here. Swyft was at one point Cersei's Hand. And that would explain the heavy emphasis on Tyrion, since Swyft and Tyrion followed the same career trajectory (Hand to Master of Coin).)

The other thing is, we know there were no further Cersei chapters in ADWD, so if this is meant to refer to Cersei being back in power, isn't that a huge spoiler within the book for something that hasn't happened yet?

The references to "the queen" are intriguing. For a moment there I was unsure if it was Kevan or Cersei that had sent Ser Harys to Braavos. If was Kevan, which means that Cersei was already detained by the Faith when he left.

Unless Swyft went straight to the docks after the small council meeting, he would still have been in town when Kevan was killed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Possible answer to the timeline thing: News of Kevan's death - and indeed of just how far Cersei has actually fallen - hasn't reached Braavos yet. Harys Swyft probably still thinks Kevan is alive and backing Cersei, assuming he did indeed go straight to the docks from the council meeting - in which the decision, whether made by Kevan or not, may still have been officially been made in the name of Cersei as Queen Mother.

Also, *Kevan* might have had the authority to ship Cersei back to Casterly Rock even if she won her trial, and rule as Regent, with Mace as Hand, but Kevan is now dead, and Cersei might still have enough left in the tank to regain her power if her own senior relative isn't pulling rank on her.

Or Harys may even think that Cersei had Kevan assassinated... and believe she was right to do so because he was usurping the regency himself?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arya is wearing Mercy's face, yes? I don't understand why everyone's commenting on her looks...

The chapter is very Arya, despite the training. She is a bright kid, but she still doesn't get stuff, doesn't connect the dots, no feeling for the metaphors (the play is just a play, for her) - something to be expected from a 12 year old. Learning the craft, but lacking the finesse. Liked this consistency in the character's development.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also liked the mention of "a tree that watched her as she ran." Bran looking for his sisters :(

:crying: :bawl: :crying: :bawl: :crying: :bawl:

okay, I dont know where the stan fans are but if you are one (like me) did you by any chance think that might have been JUSTIN MASSEY at first, coming to meet with the Ib possibly?. i know that Dream didnt last long after we were told he was short, old and had that goatee thingy with the lion guards and what not. But Goddamn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Possible answer to the timeline thing: News of Kevan's death - and indeed of just how far Cersei has actually fallen - hasn't reached Braavos yet. Harys Swyft probably still thinks Kevan is alive and backing Cersei.

Kevan's epilogue took place over a couple of hours, from the small council meeting (which Swyft was present at, and the idea of him going to Braavos was floated, though not decided, as I recall) to dining with Cersei and Tommen, to getting murdered by Varys. Unless Swyft went straight from the meeting to the docks and boarded a ship, there's no way he could have left before Kevan was killed.

okay, I dont know where the stan fans are but if you are one (like me) did you by any chance think that might have been JUSTIN MASSEY at first, coming to meet with the Ib possibly?

I thought about that, but that would make even less chronological sense, since Massey isn't even sent until Theon's sample chapter, and he has to go back to the Wall first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×