So was Viserys in the wrong?

[Hippocras]

I guess it's possible but after 5 books there hasn't really been any hint that this is the case. In the absence of any clues/info to the contrary, I think we have to assume that Illyrio did in fact give Dany the eggs.

We may learn otherwise in due course but until then this is a bit of a stretch for me.

I guess it depends what we learn about what those folks on the Cinnamon Wind are up to with Moqorro placing himself with Victarion to get to Dany, and Benerro preaching rebellion in Volantis and calling Dany AA. The CW being conveniently there to help Sam and then Marwyn taking off with the CW for Dany also.

Something's up. Them being present at the engagement seems like an important detail, and strange to mention if it was meaningless.

[SpringKing]

@ springking

I don't think that valuable dragon eggs are of consequence to wealthy Illyrio. No one knew they'd hatch to be dragons.

The Dothraki are a savage people that have never crossed the narrow sea. Ever. The odds of them getting on boats and traveling to Westeros to fight for the Khal's good-brother (a guy like Viserys none the less) is highly unlikely. Me thinks someone like Illyrio knew that.

Why waste those resources to place Young Griff in line? You gotta bet big to win big.

Jorah says of the eggs "with all three Viserys could buy as many sellswords as he might need"

Still doesnt compute. Illyrio can sidetrack Viserys and Dany simply by locking them in a gilded cage. Why bet big if you dont have to risk anything? Also cant see Drogo promising an invasion he never intends on delivering. That makes the big bloodthirsty khal nothing more than a common thief.

One more thing - it was even Varys who broke the news to Robert that Dany was pregnant.

And Varys who alerted Jorah to be on the lookout for an assassination by poison, which he foils in Vaes Dothrak. The attempt with the manticore in Quarth may have been a ruse itself. What better way to put Barristan in Dany's good graces than have him save her life.

[Hippocras]

I am not sure about that. I think Jorah may have put two and two together when he got his pardon and realized she was in danger. By then he was in love with her so saved her by his own choice. But who knows. It is not spelled out.

I agree with others above that the Dothraki army promise was merely the story told to Viserys to make him agree to give away Dany. So no promise was actually made by Drogo.

[Alicia Morgan]

On this point I don't think he was in the wrong, also I'm sure Illiryio had no idea the dragon egss would,or even were capable of hatching.

[SpringKing]

Jorah admits Varys warned him:

“Yes. And how was it you knew the wine was poisoned?”

“I... I but suspected... the caravan brought a letter from Varys, he warned me there would be attempts. He wanted you watched, yes, but not harmed.”

Then there's the whole (f)Aegon angle to consider which makes Viserys & Dany look all the better as Plan A.

[Universal Sword Donor]

I am not sure about that. I think Jorah may have put two and two together when he got his pardon and realized she was in danger. By then he was in love with her so saved her by his own choice. But who knows. It is not spelled out.

I agree with others above that the Dothraki army promise was merely the story told to Viserys to make him agree to give away Dany. So no promise was actually made by Drogo.

It's never said explicitly, but I can't really think of another viable explanation for the whole story, especially given what we see and hear between the two later on.

[Lord Jennings]

Illyrio didn't want to kill Dany or Viserys because he had hoped that they would support (f)Aegon as the rightful targ heir when he came of age. Put Dany in Vaes Dothrak with the dragon eggs and an army and keep Viserys safe a world away. Two known Targaryens supporting (f)Aegon would be very valuable and influential when the world thinks (f)aegon dead.

It was never about Viserys getting an army. only chess pieces moved to help (f)aegon succeed.

[Daedric Justice]

Eh? You really think that Viserys would have supported Aegon?

Dany might have but Viserys cared about nobody but himself. Also, I think he would have been more than slightly miffed to discover that his whole life had been a lie and that he had been used as a pawn in someone else's game.

The whole problem with Viserys was that he looked upon his title as something that he was owed. He never got the fact that a King is supposed to act like one. He never cared about Westeros or its people; he just wanted to be King and he didn't understand the meaning of the words loyalty or respect.

I very much doubt that the man who was prepared to let a whole army rape his sister would just bow out gracefully on discovering that there was another Targ, After all, Dany was a Targ too but that didn't count for much in his eyes. She was just "meat" to him.

[Lord Jennings]

Eh? You really think that Viserys would have supported Aegon?

Dany might have but Viserys cared about nobody but himself. Also, I think he would have been more than slightly miffed to discover that his whole life had been a lie and that he had been used as a pawn in someone else's game.

The whole problem with Viserys was that he looked upon his title as something that he was owed. He never got the fact that a King is supposed to act like one. He never cared about Westeros or its people; he just wanted to be King and he didn't understand the meaning of the words loyalty or respect.

I very much doubt that the man who was prepared to let a whole army rape his sister would just bow out gracefully on discovering that there was another Targ, After all, Dany was a Targ too but that didn't count for much in his eyes. She was just "meat" to him.

That was my entire argument on the thread I posted. I was swayed when I was convinced that if Viserys had lived to see (f)Aegons rise that Viserys wouldn't be in any position of power to deny him and that, begrudgingly, he'd have to support (f)Aegon or, ultimately, die.

[Daedric Justice]

That was my entire argument on the thread I posted. I was swayed when I was convinced that if Viserys had lived to see (f)Aegons rise that Viserys wouldn't be in any position of power to deny him and that, begrudgingly, he'd have to support (f)Aegon or, ultimately, die.

__________________

I remain unconvinced! With or without Aegon, Viserys had no real "power" - it was all in his head. That is why he died...he overplayed his hand because he thought he had power when it was all an illusion. Power stems from loyalty and he inspired none.

I honestly think he was so arrogant and up his own arris that he would not have accepted Aegon under any circumstances. More likely, I think he would have seen him as a threat and plotted against him. I think that would be more consistent with his (lack of) character. He was a spoilt brat who had been told all his life that he was King, that he was special, etc.. If someone suddenly told him that it was all a lie and that he had been used as a diversion for the real King, I think he would have flipped out big time. He wasn't mature enough, mentally or emotionally, to deal with that with any kind of stoicism.

[Lord Damian]

Viserys was mentally unstable by the time illyrio tricked him into giving dany as a (bribe) that he would have jumped at any chance of a prayer of getting an army. Lets not forget Doran Martell and his double wedding contract, if it is/was real, he perhaps let Viserys down more than anyone, even Illyrio.

[SpringKing]

It's never said explicitly, but I can't really think of another viable explanation for the whole story, especially given what we see and hear between the two later on.

C'mon guys. Of course Drogo made a promise to invade. Illyrio refers to it in his whispered conversation overheard by Arya in the tunnels. From earlier in the thread:

“Nonetheless, we must have time. The princess is with child. The khal will not bestir himself until his son is born. You know how they are, these savages.”

[Lord Damian]

C'mon guys. Of course Drogo made a promise to invade. Illyrio refers to it in his whispered conversation overheard by Arya in the tunnels. From earlier in the thread:

“Nonetheless, we must have time. The princess is with child. The khal will not bestir himself until his son is born. You know how they are, these savages.”

Was this after the assasination attempt on Dany, mother of the "Stallion that Mounts the World"? When Drogo pretty much vowed to come to Westeros?

[Universal Sword Donor]

C'mon guys. Of course Drogo made a promise to invade. Illyrio refers to it in his whispered conversation overheard by Arya in the tunnels. From earlier in the thread:

“Nonetheless, we must have time. The princess is with child. The khal will not bestir himself until his son is born. You know how they are, these savages.”

I was talking about the first part of the post. I think Illyrio fully intended for either Viserys or Dany to be crowned

[Lord Damian]

I was talking about the first part of the post. I think Illyrio fully intended for either Viserys or Dany to be crowned

Nah, he wanted them out of the way but he knew if he had them killed, word would get out and that would eventually taint Aegon / Young Griff. Rememeber, Illyrio hints that he wants to be involved in Aegon' Reign.

[SpringKing]

Was this after the assasination attempt on Dany, mother of the "Stallion that Mounts the World"? When Drogo pretty much vowed to come to Westeros?

Arya overhears Illyrio's reference to the khal bestirring himself before Vaes Dothrak, the assassination, and the Stallion that Mounts the World. Everything points to planned a Dothraki invasion. Substituting Aegon for Viserys after he took the IT with Drogo's help would have been relatively easy.

[Lord Damian]

Arya overhears Illyrio's reference to the khal bestirring himself before Vaes Dothrak, the assassination, and the Stallion that Mounts the World. Everything points to planned a Dothraki invasion. Substituting Aegon for Viserys after he took the IT with Drogo's help would have been relatively easy.

Ok. Well in the next book or atleast before Dany comes to Westeros, I think Dany will have another meeting / conversation with Illyrio and or maybe she will speak with Khal Ponyo or which ever barbarian rapist rode up at the end of ADWD and she may get some answers in regards to her "betrothal" to Drogo. Atleast I hope so.

[Lord Reaver]

I'm sure Western Europe said the same thing about the Huns and Mongols. It doesn't mean they were right.

Actually, what Western Europe said about the Mongols was: "Oh hey, they attacked two very new, ill fortified and shaky kingdoms, then retreated. Let's build more castles in case they return." Which they did, with the foreseeable result of the Mongols' next attempt being repulsed fairly easily.

[Lord Damian]

I was talking about the first part of the post. I think Illyrio fully intended for either Viserys or Dany to be crowned

Drogo's intimate conversations with Dany before the assasination attempt reveal he had no intention of invading. It meant nothing to him until she almost died as a result of the wine seller. That changed everything from Drogo's point of view.

[Lord Reaver]

On the topic at hand:

Yes, I believe that Illyrio was simply playing the Targaryens, using them to not only fend off Khal Drogo and his horde, but to keep the attention of the IT on them, rather than on his actual play A, which was Aegon.

Viserys was simply in too shitty a position/too desperate for "his" crown to see it. When it started to dawn on him, he grew desperate and well...did some fairly stupid stuff.