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[TWoW SPOILERS] March chapter mercy part ii


Angalin

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Wait a minute...

If the Arya chapter is this controversial with the sexualization, Arya's detachment, and the ritualistic murder of Raff, but it's the SANSA chapter that was suggested to be the potentially controversial one...

Just how fucked up is that Sansa chapter going to be?

at this point i think it's just hype tbh.

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Wait a minute...

If the Arya chapter is this controversial with the sexualization, Arya's detachment, and the ritualistic murder of Raff, but it's the SANSA chapter that was suggested to be the potentially controversial one...

Just how fucked up is that Sansa chapter going to be?

Me and my brother had this exact conversation today! I hope it's controversial in a different way because that chapter was good, but really uncomfortable to read.

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Guest BigwigStandsHisGround

The fact that girls and women are threatened by sexual predators is nothing revolutionary in itself, and in most cases I think it's well handled. It's not like the woman of ASOIAF are constantly in danger of getting raped and are constantly saved from it. In that case it would be a plot crutch, but now I can't see that it is. Which instances in particular are you thinking of?

Well, that would be a pretty long list wouldn't it? It would be easier to ask what female characters weren't raped or threatened with it. The only main characters I can think of who weren't raped or threatened with it are (off the top of my head) Catelyn, Arianne and Asha. The there are the roving armed bands whose rape as a matter of business: the Ironborn, Bloody Mummers, Dothraki, etc. In Cersei's words: "We'll be in for a little bit of rape" during the attack on King's Landing. Entire populations under threat. So, yeah, the women of ASOIAF are constantly in danger of getting raped. No, they are not always saved from it. Some of them do get raped, like Lollys Stokeworth, gang-raped at King's Landing, whose bastard son is described as "he of a hundred fathers" in the appendix.

A rape joke! Hurr hurr hurr :snort: hurr.

Maybe I am wrong. But I'd rather be wrong on this side of the discussion than the other.

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Well we finally meet the Black Pearl, and one of my favorite theories goes down the tubes. Apparently no chance that Faegon's mother could be the Black Pearl, thus Serra becomes the only canidate I can think of.

I wonder if Sarella, mom could be a prior Black Pearl? How many years ago was Oberyn in Braavos?

Is it ever stated that Oberyn went to Braavos specifically?

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I never really got the controversy about the lemon tree. They are probably kept in big pots. There was this programme with Monty Don, the famous British gardener, where he visits gardens in France. I think that it was at Versailles (though I'm not sure) that they kept citrus trees in big pots (they had a special name but I can't remember) and rolled them out every summer. In the winter they were kept inside in the Orangery.

A similar thing probably happens In Braavos.

At first I thought you meant GRRM was keeping all the cracked and semi cracked pots in a..........pot, ready for tweaking. :lmao:

I don't see the problem with the lemon tree either, especially with seasons that last years, almost anyone, anywhere could try growing them, I'd think.

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aryagonnakill#2,



It's pretty clear we're talking about the actress here. This is their first performance of the Bloody Hand, so Arya's been with them long enough to work with them over a number of performances of other plays.


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Ok now i am very confused about Raff's timeline. Last we heard from him he was;


After the fall of Riverrun, Rafford is told to escort Ser Robin Ryger and Ser Desmond Grell to Maidenpool for their journey to the Wall and make sure they made it alive. SO how did he get to Bravos?




Edit: Oh I see, Raff stopped at Maidenpool, then went to Bravos from there. Wonder how he was chosen?


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The way that she reverts back to "Arya" at the end of the chapter... could it be that this was meant as a symbolic parallel with Dany's rekindling of her dragon side and Jon's decision to battle Ramsay as we saw in Dance? Seems like we may be setting up for some long-awaited eventualities here.


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butterbumps,

As I noted above, it's the fact that after Arya is asked to help fix the hem of Lady Stork's gown, we see her going to help fix the hem of the cloth-of-gold gown that the "queen" will wear, as part of a passage where we see her help with everything she's asked to do -- fix the horn on the Stranger, find Izembaro's crown, and so on. Also, when she gives Lady Stork her nip of wine, it's as she likes to have them before every play. Seems to me Lady Stork is just what they call the actress.

But doesn't the name "Lady Stork" seem just incredibly out of place for a Braavosi mummer, but very apropos for a character in the context of the play, which would include several Lady Starks (Sansa, Cat, Jeyne)?

The first time "Lady Stork" is mentioned is adjacently to a reference to the actor playing the role of "the Stranger," with the actor's being referred to as his character rather than the person playing him. Arya goes back and forth with that-- Bonobo and Izembaro are constantly referred to by their real names, but "the Stranger" is constantly referred to by character name (except once). In light of that, is it so certain "Lady Stork" isn't a role, too.

I know the gown worn by Lady Stork is "cloth-of-gold" and to be worn at "the wedding" as a "queen." I get that Cersei is the safe assumption (my first as well), but depending on which events this play is depicting, as well as the message this play is intending to send back to KL, and whether the play is a mere history or projective, I'm not certain Cersei is the intended referent. Is the Red Wedding going to be featured? Are they projecting some future threat of Sansa as queen?

I think Cersei must be in power again, the Westerosi are talking about the dwarf and following him out of there, so there must still be pressure from Cersei to capture any dwarf right? If she was still on trial, I doubt anyone would be caring too much about catching Tyrion still right?

No, I'm not questioning whether Cersei's back in power, but whether or not the trial had to happen. I saw a lot of debate about whether this means Cersei's won her trial, but I don't think winning her trial is requisite to her regaining power once Kevan's taken out.

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On Cersei's status:



Both the hint about 'the queen calling for Ser Harys' head' as well as Raff being eager to get the Lordship Cersei has offered gives the vibe that the chapter needs another rewrite (at least in those sections).



Even if we assume that Cersei was restored to the Regency after a long(er) chain of events following Kevan's death (Ser Harys is supposed to be present at the next regular council session Kevan convened five days later, after Cersei's trial, but I'm pretty sure the deaths of Kevan and Pycelle will demand an emergency council session determining who will succeed Kevan as Regent - before Cersei gets her trial), it makes little sense that Raff and the other guardsman would make references to Cersei and not mentioning her walk of shame. Especially in talk about sex, women, and other stuff the walk would have been mentioned when Cersei came up. Raff did not witness it himself, though, but the other guy may have seen it. Both would have heard about it because Raff was hired by Ser Harys after Cersei's walk, and most likely also after Kevan was killed. It's very unlikely that Harys sought out Raff and the others at the very evening Kevan was killed, but even if he did, Ser Harys would not have left before Ser Kevan's death came to light. His trip to Braavos was on the table in the Epilogue, but it was not yet determined when he would have to go. They were still trying to get an understanding with the Myrish bankers.


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Here's hoping that Myranda doesn't get her hands on Bobono's cock then. :dunno:

With all the hype surrounding Randa, it would be a shame if she isn't hiding a dildo somewhere in her bedchamber.

Seriously, even her nickname is as close to randy as you can get... :D

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I don't know why it'd be out of place for a mummer.



Marro is referred to more than once by his actual name, but yes, she also refers to him quite a bit as the Stranger. That said, we get a direct account of the gown, and we also have the fact that she keeps thinking her as Lady Stork when she refers to the actress liking a drink before each play.



This is a place where people can be known as the Sailor's Wife or the Black Pearl. Don't see a problem for an actress to be known as Lady Stork.


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With all the hype surrounding Randa, it would be a shame if she isn't hiding a dildo somewhere in her bedchamber.

Seriously, even her nickname is as close to randy as you can get... :D

You know she has one, I just hope it isn't THAT big, LOL

I'm wondering though if the 'controversy' of Sansa's chapter is more so about someone else's fate? And, perhaps the controversy is that it won't be sexual in nature, that seems to be Arya's controversy right now.

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On Cersei's status:

Both the hint about 'the queen calling for Ser Harys' head' as well as Raff being eager to get the Lordship Cersei has offered gives the vibe that the chapter needs another rewrite (at least in those sections).

Even if we assume that Cersei was restored to the Regency after a long(er) chain of events following Kevan's death (Ser Harys is supposed to be present at the next regular council session Kevan convened five days later, after Cersei's trial, but I'm pretty sure the deaths of Kevan and Pycelle will demand an emergency council session determining who will succeed Kevan as Regent - before Cersei gets her trial), it makes little sense that Raff and the other guardsman would make references to Cersei and not mentioning her walk of shame. Especially in talk about sex, women, and other stuff the walk would have been mentioned when Cersei came up. Raff did not witness it himself, though, but the other guy may have seen it. Both would have heard about it because Raff was hired by Ser Harys after Cersei's walk, and most likely also after Kevan was killed. It's very unlikely that Harys sought out Raff and the others at the very evening Kevan was killed, but even if he did, Ser Harys would not have left before Ser Kevan's death came to light. His trip to Braavos was on the table in the Epilogue, but it was not yet determined when he would have to go. They were still trying to get an understanding with the Myrish bankers.

in the epilogue Kevan mentions going to BRavos and that Harys had already hired Raff? I can't remember...

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in the epilogue Kevan mentions going to BRavos and that Harys had already hired Raff? I can't remember...

I think the epilogue is where Kevan suggests that Harys goes to Braavos...not sure about Raff (at work or I'd look it up). Either way that puts this chapter firmly after Kevan's death.

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