[TWOW Spoilers] March 2014 Chapter Part III

[blacken]

I'm hopeful that Jon dies but comes back alive so his vows will be void in away, then he could focus on reclaiming Winterfell, because their best bet in defeating the others is uniting the north. So Arya could go to him and he wouldn't send her away, I don't think Jon would have it in him to send her away, not after everything that's happened. Or maybe that's wishful thinking...

I think the problem with this and other predictions of Arya somehow going back to Jon is it renders her a secondary character, or at least less in control of her fate. I think it there's one think Arya won't be able to do easily it is relinquish control.

I just feel like there aren't many options for her in Westeros. The best I can come up with is some kind of nomadic warrior person, though not in a knightly way. In theory it would be nice to have the Stark kids back together but lets face it the Stark house is going to rise again it needs people who can build things and make relationships lie Sansa and Jon, not people like Arya - unless she becomes this random roaming upholder of the Stark laws / hunting Freys.

[Dorne Sand]

Hello everyone, first post here when i have been a reader for a very long time. What made me react a i think, is that i had the feeling that the main character change or at least the most disturbing one of Aryia that is displayed in this chapter has been missed by most readers,

What really shoked me is the display of pleasure she took by doing the killing. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but i don't remember any of her killing providing her that much joy. She has killed by fear ( stabble boy), for practical reasons (harrendal), in self defense and in anger, for justice, as an assignement even in revenge but never with such pleasure.

During the reading i felt like she was becoming really good at being the face she wears or the identity she takes. Much more than in the cat chapters or the ugly girl. Here she actually plays here part, add flavor it and push back the arya identity to the point where it is merely invisible. The only slip i noticed is when she sees raff and mentions the gift that the Gods sent her.

Also the means of the kill are shoking. The hit on the femoral artery, with nearly no pain for the victim is a dexterity feat and shows a deep knowledge for anatomy and bodies reactions to such a wound. Clearly beyond the mummery training there has been some parrallel training in the temple just like when she was cat and once a month she was to go back to the temple

Moreover she nevers mentions consequences of her act with the faceless men, the supposed authority or fear is completly absent as if somehow they didn't have any grip on her anymore

so what is clear for me is that Arya has made some huge evolution from where we left her. she is an complished mummer and can master an identity as she never did before. Here needle skills have greatly improved with some sick twist in them. and she seems to have also made progress on her lying skills that could explain the fearlessness at which she conducts her "illegal" kill.

By the way, in her wolf dream she sees a full moon. It was maybe her last day as a mummer anyway. From what i said above she has been there for some time now obviously. Plus in the beginng of the chapter she mentions the rape and the murder. In the end, she fears the anger of izembaro if she missed her rape. Maybe the rape is for the play where the murder is for the idenity mercy. she was supposed to die that nigth anyway which would explain the seemingly carelessnees she conducts her murder

But for me the main point of the chapter is summed up in the lines of bobono

“Give me the cup,” he told the Stranger, “for I shall drink deep. And if it tastes of gold and lion’s blood, so much the better. As I cannot be the hero, let me be the monster, and lesson them in fear in place of love.

This chapter says it plainly. she has become that monster who takes pleasure in her kills, the monster that bring her victim to her lair to have her all by herself. The monster that can lie easly, plan quickly, manipulate efficiently and execute gracefully turning the kill into a mummer show.

And when the deed done, push it away with a sniff without any fealing of justice, or revenge. We come back directly to pratical problems. She has enjoyed the kill much more for the killing itself than anything else

[Stormourne]

Hello everyone, first post here when i have been a reader for a very long time. What made me react a i think, is that i had the feeling that the main character change or at least the most disturbing one of Aryia that is displayed in this chapter has been missed by most readers,

What really shoked me is the display of pleasure she took by doing the killing. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but i don't remember any of her killing providing her that much joy. She has killed by fear ( stabble boy), for practical reasons (harrendal), in self defense and in anger, for justice, as an assignement even in revenge but never with such pleasure.

During the reading i felt like she was becoming really good at being the face she wears or the identity she takes. Much more than in the cat chapters or the ugly girl. Here she actually plays here part, add flavor it and push back the arya identity to the point where it is merely invisible. The only slip i noticed is when she sees raff and mentions the gift that the Gods sent her.

Also the means of the kill are shoking. The hit on the femoral artery, with nearly no pain for the victim is a dexterity feat and shows a deep knowledge for anatomy and bodies reactions to such a wound. Clearly beyond the mummery training there has been some parrallel training in the temple just like when she was cat and once a month she was to go back to the temple

Moreover she nevers mentions consequences of her act with the faceless men, the supposed authority or fear is completly absent as if somehow they didn't have any grip on her anymore

so what is clear for me is that Arya has made some huge evolution from where we left her. she is an complished mummer and can master an identity as she never did before. Here needle skills have greatly improved with some sick twist in them. and she seems to have also made progress on her lying skills that could explain the fearlessness at which she conducts her "illegal" kill.

By the way, in her wolf dream she sees a full moon. It was maybe her last day as a mummer anyway. From what i said above she has been there for some time now obviously. Plus in the beginng of the chapter she mentions the rape and the murder. In the end, she fears the anger of izembaro if she missed her rape. Maybe the rape is for the play where the murder is for the idenity mercy. she was supposed to die that nigth anyway which would explain the seemingly carelessnees she conducts her murder

But for me the main point of the chapter is summed up in the lines of bobono

“Give me the cup,” he told the Stranger, “for I shall drink deep. And if it tastes of gold and lion’s blood, so much the better. As I cannot be the hero, let me be the monster, and lesson them in fear in place of love.

This chapter says it plainly. she has become that monster who takes pleasure in her kills, the monster that bring her victim to her lair to have her all by herself. The monster that can lie easly, plan quickly, manipulate efficiently and execute gracefully turning the kill into a mummer show.

And when the deed done, push it away with a sniff without any fealing of justice, or revenge. We come back directly to pratical problems. She has enjoyed the kill much more for the killing itself than anything else

The world made her, now it must pay the price. :D

I wonder if she's going to hit rock bottom and stay there, or rise again. It could go either way, depending on the situation. And I guess we just have the wait for the book :{ to find out.

From what I read, Arya didn't get any pleasure from killing Raff. She reenacted the kill to mock him in a way or make him remember lommy. When she used her Arya voice/accent, Raff looked up rather quickly right as she stabbed him. So either he remembered the kid he killed (Because she mimicked him, when he had killed lommy), or her change in accent is what caused him to look up fast. After she killed him, her face went blank (Or so that's how I perceived it from the writing) and the Sniff she did was kind of like boredom/annoyance, since she had to now pull him down the stairs and dump his body. There was no pleasure in it, just need. And that's what it has become for her, a need. And repercussions are secondary to her need.

The question is, what will she do once or if she finishes the list. Will she add more names as she goes? And how far is she willing to go to get her kills? Its tragic really...

[ladyinblack]

I truly don't see how some feel that the Mercy chapter shows or proves certain opinions like; "Arya is a sexualized sociopathic killer with no empathy who does not even think of her family when surrounded by all of the imagery - which this chapter proves all of the above" I see many contradictions here.

I think it would be impossible for Arya, being/playing Mercy or not, not be reminded of her family here and I don't need a specific 'thought' from her to tell me so. They are there with us and Mercy the entire time, Sansa is invoked so strongly in this chapter it's almost oppressive - to he point many think Mercy must be acting as Sansa in the play and/or Arya models Mercy after Sansa. Have some of you forgotten who's perspective this chapter is written in since she spends her time forcing herself to be Mercy? Martin wrote the chapter as Arya so Arya is the one invoking these intense feelings, it may not be very specific 'thoughts' like some of you want however I was no less emotionally effected but probably more so.

I felt that is why Arya becomes so passionate about needing to kill Raff that it seems sexualized "She wanted him so bad" and all that. Arya has been having wolf dreams with Bran watching and probably attempting to communicate with her - she has been working on and practicing a play that probably has a Sansa character in it telling her story in an unflattering light I'm sure - Arya's character is to be raped by her sister's vile twisted husband - this play has the people who beheaded her father in it, who are on her all important "Prayer List", and most likely cast as heroes - and so on, and some of you feel that Arya is just running around carefree and giggling? So carefree that when she sees that one from the envoy's group, sent by the evil Lannister crew that has destroyed her family, just so happens to be another from her all important "Prayer List" that Arya thinks "the gods have given me a gift" that she is insincere and lacks empathy?

No I bet Arya has been so tortured by all of the reminders of her family that it truly was a gift from the gods offering her a release before she did crack. The desire to kill Raff is so much beyond anything as blasé as vengeance, it is something beyond choice or reason, she has no control as it has become breath and life at this point. Arya needs to kill him, Arya can not wait to kill him, Arya can not lose her chance... it has to happen and can not be stopped anymore than an avalanche could be stopped. The fact that Arya also needed it to be played out in such a ritualistic fashion, reenacting Lommy's death exactly, just highlights her desperation for her family to me - no simple slash and run would or could appease the demons that have been haunting her.

Yes, the whole chapter is sexualized but it all is done in a disturbing way, you are supposed to be disturbed left, right, up, down and sideways - it's intended to show another haunting layer of torture that Arya is enduring. Does that mean this is the Arya we will see from now on? Fat chance of that, sure if it's efficient in the moment we might see the femme fatale again but this was just the certain circumstances, done in the quickest way, utilizing her character against the specific target - because it just had to happen to ease Arya's emotional battles, cut the girl just a little slack people. I'll dig it up if you want but I've read an interview where Martin compares Arya with Theon/Reek in the emotional crisis department...

I agree. Well written

[Knight of Eremiel]

Syrio mentions a playwright brother in GoT. The keys thing I'm still unclear on

[emphasis added]

Could you, or anyone, please point out where Syrio mentions a playwright brother. I was reading this thread a few days back, saw your comment, but could not locate the source.

Not saying you are wrong, just saying that I could not find it. In fact, I would rather enjoy if Arya is now learning how to kill, albeit with words, under another Forel (as in the Bloodiest Quill).

[VictarionsMonkeys]

Like Arya, the waif lived below the temple, along with three acolytes, two serving men, and a cook called Umma. One serving man was very old, his back bent like a bow.

“Along the wharves below the Drowned Town you will find a fishmonger named Brusco, a good man with a bad back.”

Am I the only one to think that Brusco the fishmonger was the old servant in the house with a different face? I think it is more meaningful for the FM to keep Arya under surveillance by a servant under disguise. In this case, Izembaro might be a FM as well. Or Phario Forel.

Old men keep popping up around Arya in Braavos and particularly they are mentioned in the HOBW. I am curious as to if there anything special about the old man Mercy passes early in the chapter. Are the Faceless Men keeping tabs on her via antiques?

"Mercy passed an old man with a lantern walking the other way, and envied him his light."

[Dorne Sand]

The world made her, now it must pay the price. :D

I wonder if she's going to hit rock bottom and stay there, or rise again. It could go either way, depending on the situation. And I guess we just have the wait for the book :{ to find out.

From what I read, Arya didn't get any pleasure from killing Raff. She reenacted the kill to mock him in a way or make him remember lommy. When she used her Arya voice/accent, Raff looked up rather quickly right as she stabbed him. So either he remembered the kid he killed (Because she mimicked him, when he had killed lommy), or her change in accent is what caused him to look up fast. After she killed him, her face went blank (Or so that's how I perceived it from the writing) and the Sniff she did was kind of like boredom/annoyance, since she had to now pull him down the stairs and dump his body. There was no pleasure in it, just need. And that's what it has become for her, a need. And repercussions are secondary to her need.

The question is, what will she do once or if she finishes the list. Will she add more names as she goes? And how far is she willing to go to get her kills? Its tragic really...

I said pleasure but maybe is not the rigth choice of word. But there is something compelling about that kill. As Elanea Targaryen quoted by squire stated she desires it as we never seen her before. There is something more than just revenge, there is an urge, a need that we didn't see before

Maybe she has been someone else for too long, and the kill is the only way she could recenter herself as Arya. she has been loosing grip of her own identity and raff is a gift of release of some sort. But i don't think so or maybe it is in resonance to Theon/reek moto "you need to remember who you are". The wolf dreams are unbreackable ties, without them she would have been a full FM, with them she can never be. During her previous chapter she never embraced the FM philosophy she just was eager to learn the trade, to master the skills. For me she can't forget who she is even if she tried or wanted to. It could be that she missed her own self though, the need is the need to remember who she is, more than a disorder a surge of Arya's personality behind mercy's face. For me it not clear where the desire comes from in the end, deep down her personality

But i said pleasure because of the means, the staging of a mummer show replaying lommies death which is independent from where the urge comes. This fact, a simple urge cannot explain, if it was a kill to fill some identity disorder or some hole she wouldn't make a show of it I guess. Plus there is the fact that she wants to drag him to her room (lair) to have him all for herself, not for practical reasons, but more just like some freakish serial killer not an assassin

In anyway we choose to intrepret it, this is the biggest twist in her personality so far IMO much more than pseudo sexual behavior

[boojam]

Has anybody wondered if when Benioff and Weiss were outlining season 4 , or had sent the outline to George, if George had pulled out this chapter, which he wrote long ago, and has had in hand, and gave or sent it to them and said "You might be interested in this" ...?

[Veltigar]

[emphasis added]

Could you, or anyone, please point out where Syrio mentions a playwright brother. I was reading this thread a few days back, saw your comment, but could not locate the source.

Not saying you are wrong, just saying that I could not find it. In fact, I would rather enjoy if Arya is now learning how to kill, albeit with words, under another Forel (as in the Bloodiest Quill).

It isn't mentioned at all. He was wrong.

[kephv]

She was proposed with a few alternatives but non of them included safe conduct to where ever she wanted. They never offered to take her to the Wall and leave her there, she was only offered free passage on a ship to Westeros (Gulltown and Kings Landing, iirc) and then to be left on her own. After her time in the Riverlands she had realized thet she couldn't be safe on her own.

Well, naturally, they wouldn't know about her desire to see Jon or go to the Wall. Still, that wouldn't have been out of the question, given that they could've sent her to any other port they wanted.

[jarl the climber]

in curious what people think is going to happen to harys swift I see the iron back either executing him quietly or imprisoning him

Actaully he can not go back to Westeros if his misson fails, the Queen would have his head. He becomes an exile and maybe tattles about the Lannisters secrets to keep himself living in comfort, he does know a lot, he was the Cerseis Hand, has been at court since the Blackwater, and was with Tywin during his campaign and because of his connection to Kevan he did sit on Tywins councils. He could definitely reveal some things that would be embarassing.

One other thing to keep in mind, If Cerseis kids are declared bastards his Grandson, Martin could inherit Casterly Rock.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

It isn't mentioned at all. He was wrong.

haha, I love how someone just invented that to force a connection on the forum. lol

[Fevre River Warrior]

Hmmm....I think the comment that Mercy's rape and death may have nothing to do with the play is a good one (I could not find it again to quote). Maybe Mercy was on her mission for the FM and was just sidetracked for a short while to kill Raff. What are the key and coins about? What key, Arya never had a key that I can remember. The only item that appears to be Arya's is Needle (I am assuming the sword is Needle).

I guess we will not know until we see the Arya (Mercy) chapters that come before and after. She could be up to something that happens that night after the play, when she will murder someone she is tasked to murder, using a key to get into someplace, then Mercy will disappear. Maybe the FM murder involves a potential rape that is thwarted when Arya kills the person. Raff's murder may have just been a brief side story.

I think Arya will continue to kill until everyone on her "list" is dead; whether the FM want her to or not. Maybe they will end up taking her out because they can't control her. Or she will become dangerous enough that they leave her alone.

[conon394]

Well, naturally, they wouldn't know about her desire to see Jon or go to the Wall. Still, that wouldn't have been out of the question, given that they could've sent her to any other port they wanted.

They offered ports and passage not escort farther (or cash or some method of identification etc). So what does she do - broke - in East Watch? Who but Jon in all the NW would know her and how would she get to him? Let's recall she does not have her wolf, showing up on a purple ship and declaring I'm the dead Aryra Stark - take me to my brother - is hardly going to be very effective.

[kephv]

They offered ports and passage not escort farther (or cash or some method of identification etc). So what does she do - broke - in East Watch? Who but Jon in all the NW would know her and how would she get to him? Let's recall she does not have her wolf, showing up on a purple ship and declaring I'm the dead Aryra Stark - take me to my brother - is hardly going to be very effective.

I don't quite see what you're trying to get at here, as I'm not trying to establish motives for what she would have done after the fact, only what she wanted to do. As I said, she could've gone to the Wall any time after she came to Braavos, but that she was plagued with indecision. She was even going to tell Dareon and ask for a ride back with him until she found out he was deserting.

As for the Kindly Man's offers, it's strange to assume that his limited offers reflected the full extent of what they were willing to provide for her -- he was only giving her examples, not an exhaustive list of every possibility. What is clear from his offers is that they were willing to offer her status (pretty high status at that) in Braavos and ships to wherever she wanted, which strongly implies that they could've granted just about any wish she had in relation to those things, short of the ridiculous or the impossible.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

They offered ports and passage not escort farther (or cash or some method of identification etc). So what does she do - broke - in East Watch? Who but Jon in all the NW would know her and how would she get to him? Let's recall she does not have her wolf, showing up on a purple ship and declaring I'm the dead Aryra Stark - take me to my brother - is hardly going to be very effective.

It was much safer for Arya to remain in Braavos than to return to Westeros unless she could be delivered right into the custody of someone who would/could protect her. But who would that be? Jon would have liked to protect her, I'm sure, but she couldn't stay at the Wall. Even if she was temporarily sheltered at the wall, as soon as Stannis appeared he'd be trying to marry her off to one of his men. Westeros is otherwise still crawling with Lannisters, Freys, and Boltons -- at least when she's with the FM she's pretty damn safe. By the time of this story she's a danger, THE danger, and frankly I have no problem with that considering what's been done to her, her family and the North. With a little help from her mom (isn't it nice that Catelyn and Arya finally have something they can do together?) she can restore a little balance to the eff'd up 7 Kingdoms.

As noted up-thread, she's the monster Westeros made, the way Catelyn is the monster the Freys made. The more power to them.

ETA -- to clarify, that's more power to UnCat and Arya.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

It was much safer for Arya to remain in Braavos than to return to Westeros unless she could be delivered right into the custody of someone who would/could protect her. But who would that be? Jon would have like to protect her, I'm sure, but she couldn't stay at the Wall. Even if she was temporarily sheltered at the wall, as soon as Stannis appeared he'd be trying to marry her off to one of his men. Westeros is otherwise still crawling with Lannisters, Freys, and Boltons -- at least when she's with the FM she's pretty damn safe. By the time of this story she's a danger, THE danger, and frankly I have no problem with that considering what's been done to her, her family and the North. With a little help from her mom (isn't it nice that Catelyn and Arya finally have something they can do together?) she can restore a little balance to the eff'd up 7 Kingdom.

As noted up-thread, she's the monster Westeros made, the way Catelyn is the monster the Freys made. The more power to them.

Her new name is Arya O-Ren Ishii. "Do you recognize my face?" :devil:

[Queen Whore]

Here's my question- why would Arya get in trouble (ignoring her obvious oversight with the second guard) for killing people who were not essential to her assignment if Jaqen did not? As a FM, Jaqen was instrumental in the Weasel Soup fiasco at Harrenhal. While one could argue those were actually Arya's victims, it would not have gone down without him. Is it just because she is an acolyte? Or was Jaqen out of line too?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Here's my question- why would Arya get in trouble (ignoring her obvious oversight with the second guard) for killing people who were not essential to her assignment if Jaqen did not? As a FM, Jaqen was instrumental in the Weasel Soup fiasco at Harrenhal. While one could argue those were actually Arya's victims, it would not have gone down without him. Is it just because she is an acolyte? Or was Jaqen out of line too?

I dont think she'll get in trouble, I'm not sure why people say that.

[Brother Seamus]

It was much safer for Arya to remain in Braavos than to return to Westeros unless she could be delivered right into the custody of someone who would/could protect her. But who would that be? Jon would have like to protect her, I'm sure, but she couldn't stay at the Wall. Even if she was temporarily sheltered at the wall, as soon as Stannis appeared he'd be trying to marry her off to one of his men. Westeros is otherwise still crawling with Lannisters, Freys, and Boltons -- at least when she's with the FM she's pretty damn safe. By the time of this story she's a danger, THE danger, and frankly I have no problem with that considering what's been done to her, her family and the North. With a little help from her mom (isn't it nice that Catelyn and Arya finally have something they can do together?) she can restore a little balance to the eff'd up 7 Kingdom.

As noted up-thread, she's the monster Westeros made, the way Catelyn is the monster the Freys made. The more power to them.

to paraphrase Walter White: Arya is the one who knocks.