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GRRM confirms: TWOW not done yet


Hagen of Tronje

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No, Mladen, you are not.

Thanks, I thought I am freak of nature... :)

Now, I understand people complaining who like you and Linda have been avid ASOIAF fans for the past 2 decades and the waiting process has been long. But, if we are to be brutally honest, lion's share of the fandom was drawn to the books via show. That would make 3 to 4 year, with ADWD coming out in 2011. The translation of it went into 2012, so a good portion of fans read the last book just couple of years ago. And, to be fair, that is not long ago. So, most of these complaints are baseless.

But, above all of that, I simply enjoy the ride. The books will come when they come. In the meantime, I will focus my time on analyzing previous works. GRRM may prove me wrong in upcoming installments, but heck, I do it out of respect and love for ASOIAF and out of fun. So, guys, relax, be productive in other ways... Book will come and we will all enjoy it once when it arrives to our book stores...

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But, above all of that, I simply enjoy the ride. The books will come when they come. In the meantime, I will focus my time on analyzing previous works. GRRM may prove me wrong in upcoming installments, but heck, I do it out of respect and love for ASOIAF and out of fun. So, guys, relax, be productive in other ways... Book will come and we will all enjoy it once when it arrives to our book stores...

That's exactly my opinion.

I am prepared for a Christmas release 2015 and that would be fine with me. And if it takes longer, just take your time Georgie and don't let all those people pressure you! ;) If, however, he manages to release it earlier, I definetely won't complain.

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Against my better judgment I really thought it would come soon...

Although, last week I was checking the sample chapters again and I noticed that the ones he released gave a lot away about what presumably will air next year on s5. Battle of Mereen; in Dany's favor. Aegon who conquered Storm's End. Stannis alive and well in Theon's chapter with no evidence that Dance and Winds will overlap, George said it would begin 5 minutes after DWD (why are we doubting this?) ... i'm not sure if i'm looking to much into this but is he buying time for WOW without having to face the consequences of the show telling his story? Or is it just the simple explanation that this where simply the chapters that were originally for Dance and they were done?

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Let GRRM write at the pace he works best at. Right now we have five books that are just treats to read and dig into and argue over. If he rushed his work and made mistakes or just flat out told a bad story, we'd never forgive him. Let HBO pass him. They will change the story at that point to get to a conclusion somewhat like GRRM's and I will watch it, but I'm sure I'll prefer walking with him to the end. And the TV watchers will be so over those of us who sniff that the books ended 40 times better than the TV show, and all will be right with the world.

^^^ Extremely well said.

Although I'm fairly optimistic (call me foolish) that we'll get a mid 2015 release, or maybe gods be good sooner. He's really only put a couple years of work into WoW (if he did in fact take a year or so off of writing after DwD), and if he really has been able to get this book out more smoothly with far less re-writes there's no reason yet to worry that this will take as long to write as the last two books. I'd actually be willing to bet he's closer to finishing the book than he was a couple years into Dance (though that founded entirely on my own opinion). And as for what was tweeted about the books being years away, I wouldn't take too much stock in that other than it probably won't be 2014, which wasn't that surprising anyway. Her statements are most likely based on how much progress she knows of and has seen, and was trying to dispel rumors of an soon release. I think that though he's been writing this for years, his attitude lately gives me the impression that this is the point where he's moving gears per say, and will be in the heat of it with WoW and I believe/hope be writing more quickly. Basically, I think his pace is going to be steadily increasing due to not having to scrap the storyline, having more to go off of, and pressure to finish the book. However, I do think that he still has a ways to go so it would be naive to expect anything much sooner than a year.

Kinda sad there might be less sample chapters from here on... It helps a lot with the waiting IMO. But it's not like the story doesn't have enough going on as it is to learn/catch on to new things every day. And the potential theories and cross ups and way events may go in this story is staggering. And at least the show is good in its own right (I've greatly enjoyed it, at least), and I feel that it will help time pass as well. We're guaranteed a lil slice of Westeros every year. I'm thinking around the time of next season, but either way it'll be here before we know it. We just have to keep reading and coming to sites like this to keep our sanity.

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Let GRRM write at the pace he works best at. Right now we have five books that are just treats to read and dig into and argue over. If he rushed his work and made mistakes or just flat out told a bad story, we'd never forgive him. Let HBO pass him. They will change the story at that point to get to a conclusion somewhat like GRRM's and I will watch it, but I'm sure I'll prefer walking with him to the end. And the TV watchers will be so over those of us who sniff that the books ended 40 times better than the TV show, and all will be right with the world.

FTW!

I would only add:

In 10 years we won't care about when the book was released, we'll only care about the quality of the story. The show is a fun little thing and it's cool that there are commercials for it during the NCAA basketball tournament (I mean how is that for intersection of geek culture with alpha male jock culture?) but it is the books that count.

I'm worried that Martin will feel too much pressure from the show and all of us haranguing him. He should take his time.

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I think it's easy enough to be sanguine about TWOW now, but I doubt those attitudes will hold up when the release drags into 2016 or even 2017 and the show starts outpacing the books, which could happen as early as 2015. I expect the "GRRM should take all the time he needs" opinions to dwindle, much as many previously-patient fans are getting increasingly frustrated and agitated with the lack of progress as the show marches on. There's a very real possibility that the show ends before TWOW is even released, if the seven seasons number holds. It took six years for GRRM to publish ADWD after all; while there was no Meereenese knot to contend with this time around, he spent a lot of time on side projects after 2011 that could equally push the release date back as much as the knot problem did. If it takes six years total to publish TWOW, that puts us at 2017, around when the last TV season should be airing by the most recent showrunners' interview.



It's also looking increasingly unlikely that GRRM will be able to finish in two books, as it's been confirmed that the recently released TWOW chapter was the first chapter that was supposed to take place after the five-year time skip. He's way, way behind. Nor is it particularly reassuring that the TWOW chapter most recently released was initially written 10 years ago, and was bumped from ADWD (like many of the other released chapters).


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Now, I understand people complaining who like you and Linda have been avid ASOIAF fans for the past 2 decades and the waiting process has been long. But, if we are to be brutally honest, lion's share of the fandom was drawn to the books via show. That would make 3 to 4 year, with ADWD coming out in 2011. The translation of it went into 2012, so a good portion of fans read the last book just couple of years ago. And, to be fair, that is not long ago. So, most of these complaints are baseless.

The thing that matter to most is not if GRRM finished the book half a year sooner or later.

The thing people are afraid of is that the show will spoil the end of the series to them.

And I'm certainly not complaining. GRRM wrote terrific books and I love them a lot and for that reason I respect GRRM a lot!

But the entire 'in 10 years nobody cares' argument just fails b/c of the show. If there would be no show, there would be no problem, and most probably no anxious fan posting either.

But if the show takes over I'll just try to hide in a cave till Martin finished a dream of spring ;-)

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GRRM took his time with A Dance with Dragons and it's easily my least favorite book in the series. If anything I say he's better when he writes fast, IMO



That being said I really came to like A Feast for Crows on rereads, however A Dance with Dragons seems to have the opposite effect on me.



My biggest worry with The Winds of Winter is the fact that it's going to have too many chapters originally meant for A Dance with Dragons and George wont be able to move the story along as quickly as he would have wanted to.


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The thing that matter to most is not if GRRM finished the book half a year sooner or later.

The thing people are afraid of is that the show will spoil the end of the series to them.

But is that big deal? So, what if find out what will happen at the end via show? Is that the only thing we appreciate in ASOIAF? The end?

With risk of sounding as some sort of literary snob, but I truly enjoy the path Martin is taking us on. It's not just about the end, it is about the journey, guiding us through pages of material where we see his genius in not just creating the world, but in depth of motifs, symbolism of certain small things etc... Simply, if you are all so crazy about finding what will happen at the end, then I imagine GRRM should just write something like:

1. Person A will sit in IT

2. Family B will rule that region

3. Person C will die

ASOIAF is not about the end game. It is about much more. And trust me, even though I would find all the data via show, I would want to know how GRRM wanted us to come to that end. For me, that counts too... :dunno:

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GRRM took his time with A Dance with Dragons and it's easily my least favorite book in the series. If anything I say he's better when he writes fast, IMO

That being said I really came to like A Feast for Crows on rereads, however A Dance with Dragons seems to have the opposite effect on me.

My biggest worry with The Winds of Winter is the fact that it's going to have too many chapters originally meant for A Dance with Dragons and George wont be able to move the story along as quickly as he would have wanted to.

Funny, I'd say ADwD is my favorite book in the series, so I'm all for him taking his time. I just hope that isn't too much xD.

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The thing that matter to most is not if GRRM finished the book half a year sooner or later.


The thing people are afraid of is that the show will spoil the end of the series to them.



And I'm certainly not complaining. GRRM wrote terrific books and I love them a lot and for that reason I respect GRRM a lot!


But the entire 'in 10 years nobody cares' argument just fails b/c of the show. If there would be no show, there would be no problem, and most probably no anxious fan posting either.



But if the show takes over I'll just try to hide in a cave till Martin finished a dream of spring ;-)




A lot of people seem to care that the show will probably spoil the books for them. I can understand this, I guess, I don't really feel the need to read Harry Potter after watching the movies.



But for me ASOIAF is different, more like LOTR. I've probably read ASOIAF at least 10 times through. So 9/10 times the story was already spoiled for me. I still re-read it and love it. Sure the first time was great and some things were better the first time (the Red Wedding, killing of Tywin and most of all for me Theon not being dead in Dance, probably a few more). But if I cared about spoilers I wouldn't be re-reading.



Add to this the fact that the show will be significantly diverging from the books and I really couldn't care less if the show catches up. But I guess there are just a few of us who feel that way.


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GRRM took his time with A Dance with Dragons and it's easily my least favorite book in the series. If anything I say he's better when he writes fast, IMO

He writes quickly when it comes easily. That's when he's "in the zone" as a writer. When he has to take longer it means he has to power through when it's not flowing as well, and probably means a lot more revisions. So it's more likely that when he's writing well he writes faster, not the other way around.

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But the entire 'in 10 years nobody cares' argument just fails b/c of the show. If there would be no show, there would be no problem, and most probably no anxious fan posting either.

Pretty much this. The whole "In 10 years nobody will care" argument doesn't take the existence of the show into consideration, which is a big part of the reason people wish he would get a move on. And really, if the show does outpace the books, I think that even in 10 years, 20 years, and 30 years, fans will still be bitter that GRRM couldn't get his act together and couldn't stay in front of the show, even when he had a 4-year head start on the TV series (sold the rights in 2007, first season aired in 2011).

Add to this the fact that the show will be significantly diverging from the books and I really couldn't care less if the show catches up. But I guess there are just a few of us who feel that way.

I guess it boils down to this: if you learned of the contents of a Cliff's Notes version of the plot of the remaining two books, summarizing the major plot points and spoiling the endgame for all the characters, and you were unable to avoid learning of the contents due to them being widely discussed in the media, would it ruin the unpublished books for you, since you now know the broad strokes of what will happen? I think for most, the answer would be "Yes."

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Funny, I'd say ADwD is my favorite book in the series, so I'm all for him taking his time. I just hope that isn't too much xD.

So you enjoyed GRRM building up to two epic battles and never seeing them happen and Tyrion looking at turtles or Jon preparing for The Other's to show up only for them to...................well never show up and don't even get me started on Cercie's trial which again never happens. I guess to each his own my friend, but I just felt trolled by the end of that book and the 4 previous books I loved.

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I guess it boils down to this: if you learned of the contents of a Cliff's Notes version of the plot of the remaining two books, summarizing the major plot points and spoiling the endgame for all the characters, and you were unable to avoid learning of the contents due to them being widely discussed in the media, would it ruin the unpublished books for you, since you now know the broad strokes of what will happen? I think for most, the answer would be "Yes."

Agreed. (although for me the answer is "No" :) )

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I guess it boils down to this: if you learned of the contents of a Cliff's Notes version of the plot of the remaining two books, summarizing the major plot points and spoiling the endgame for all the characters, and you were unable to avoid learning of the contents due to them being widely discussed in the media, would it ruin the unpublished books for you, since you now know the broad strokes of what will happen? I think for most, the answer would be "Yes."

Ruin is perhaps a bit to strong of a word. Greatly diminish on the other hand fits the bill. The destination is after all an integral part of the journey.

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But is that big deal? So, what if find out what will happen at the end via show? Is that the only thing we appreciate in ASOIAF? The end?

With risk of sounding as some sort of literary snob, but I truly enjoy the path Martin is taking us on. It's not just about the end, it is about the journey, guiding us through pages of material where we see his genius in not just creating the world, but in depth of motifs, symbolism of certain small things etc... Simply, if you are all so crazy about finding what will happen at the end, then I imagine GRRM should just write something like:

Exactly because I like the journey more then 'The End' I do not want the show to spoil just only (parts of) the end to me.

Because the journey is a lot more interesting if you do not know the destination yet.

If I only cared about 'the end' I would be happy if the show would tell it to me, b/c then I would know it in 3 years.

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Exactly because I like the journey more then 'The End' I do not want the show to spoil just only (parts of) the end to me.

Because the journey is a lot more interesting if you do not know the destination yet.

If I only cared about 'the end' I would be happy if the show would tell it to me, b/c then I would know it in 3 years.

I don't know... It's like watching a tennis game between Federer and some low-ranking ATP list guy. And they tell you Federer won... But then you hear that the match was great, that they played for 4 hours, and that it was one of the best tennis matches ever. Does the score count? Yes. But, the regret of not watching all those great points is simply too big. That is how I see show overtaking the books. They can tell us the end, but they certainly can't describe us each point of that game. And that is why we will return to the books. After all, after so many adaptations, who hasn't returned to the books? I have read HP, LOTR etc at least one more time after watching adaptations. Simply, the show can't do anything to the joy I will feel while reading TWOW and ADOS.

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But, above all of that, I simply enjoy the ride. The books will come when they come. In the meantime, I will focus my time on analyzing previous works. GRRM may prove me wrong in upcoming installments, but heck, I do it out of respect and love for ASOIAF and out of fun. So, guys, relax, be productive in other ways... Book will come and we will all enjoy it once when it arrives to our book stores...

I do agree with this, for the most part. Of course I want the book as soon as possible, but I also want him to take his time and make sure it's as awesome as it can be.

Aside from that, I think it's just fun speculating on when it'll come out. Everyone gathering their little bits of info or hearsay from around the net and trying to come up with the most accurate time frame for a release date. Helps keep the ol' brain occupied until King Kong is finished.

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