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Will Arya meet "Arya"


Mrmanakan

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Arya might hatch a plot with Jeyne and Massey, return to Winterfell as herself, scare the bejesus out of Ramsay, and bury her needle in some dark place even Renly couldn't find. There are also still plenty of Freys and Boltons she could use for target practice there. Stannis will storm the castle and find one little girl Stark on the throne in the North surrounded by a mountain of bodies, Conan style, with an unsheathed Needle across her lap. Whoa, I just shuddered there for a minute.

I like this.

I've been saying for a while Arya will recover her identity, return to Westeros, and start taking vengeance. Ramsay being her first victim, in some sort of scenario like this, is another of the good options for how it might happen.

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  • 2 months later...

Think it is likely that Justin takes Jeyne with him to Bravos. She has been through so much, she might end up in the house of B&W and choose to drink the death wine and go to sleep dreaming of Berik or some happy time. If Arya then get her face she will not only get her ugly memories of Ramsey but also of LF. That might drive her to Westeros.

This would be plausible and awesome - imagine Ramsay thinking he is about to get his plaything "Arya" back only to have the real Arya turn it back around. Unfortunately I just don't see Ramsay surviving that long.

I'm actually pretty certain that they will meet, my question is, will Arya kill her?

Really, I don't think this is a possibility. Arya's characterisation so far just doesn't suggest she would kill someone who is not a real threat to anyone. The names on her hit list are all people who specifically murder/torture/etc relatively innocent victims. Jeyne is a victim, regardless of her calling Arya horseface, regardless of her taking her identity. For Arya to kill her Arya would first have to go down a darker turn of character development wherein she transformed from someone who wants to destroy evil into the kind of person on her hit list.

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If Arya and "Arya" meet I think our Faceless Girl will have an identity crisis. If there's already an "Arya Stark", would there really need to be another one?

yesyesyes. Especially considering the increasing theme of identity within Arya's chapters.

Honestly, I didn't think it was necessary at all to have Jeyne go to Braavos until I read that, and now that that's been said, I actually think that it would be extremely interesting to have such a situation. With all the dilemmas surrounding Arya and identity, this would be the perfect emotional trigger that either makes her realise she doesn't want her identity stolen from her (thus ending her training and going back with Justin and Jeyne) or makes her question the fact that she actually ever was Arya and is the necessary step to make her a real faceless girl. The latter being unlikely with the wolf dreams and seeing her behavior in the latest chapter.

In any case, such an encounter is certain to have a big emotional impact on Arya and would really be a clever trigger.

Thinking about it, I'm starting to think it very possible that she would kill her in the trauma following their meeting, and I'm really picturing a messy job, OOOOOR she could just meet her, say "hell no girl I'm the real deal", Jeyne answering "yeah, I'm not actually you", and they all go back to Westeros hand in hand.

Yes, yes, wait what?

Haha you had me 100% until the killing.

I think that the main point, like you said, would be the symbolic spurring of emotional development in Arya's perception of her own identity.

Arya murdering Jeyne would be overkill (so punny). The hand-in-hand thing is too resolved for ASoIaF, although I agree that its a nice image.

Actually, the more I think about it, its not so much necessary for Arya to meet Jeyne so much as it is for her to simply know that another "Arya Stark" exists.

She could hear a reference, or see Jeyne referred to as Arya whilst wearing a different face.

While the whole scene of Arya meeting "Arya" could be incredibly interesting and even comical, the symbolic impact that there is a different Arya Stark in the first place is significant within itself in relation to Arya's identity crisis, that I think has already been occurring throughout the previous books.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I always looked at Arya and Sansa as two innocent women, unlikely candidates for any real impact in the series during my first read of aGoT, and throughout the series they have been dragged through so much and made to believe they were alone in the world, their entire family has been killed and they are the only one left. They know little and nothing about the truth, but as we see or predict Sansa turning into a power player in the "Game", and I can definitely see with the much talked about "controversial chapter" that we are all anxiously waiting on that Sansa might act on some of the overflowing resentment that she has gathered throughout the series up to this point.



I think with all the parallels this series has, I could definitely see Arya acting in the same way. The entire series she has questioned her identity and recently she has abandoned her identity, but what's to say that she uses her FM powers to gain vengeance? The FM don't act on their own free will, they are assassins trained in precise killing based on contracts. But why have Arya create her list of people to assassinate only to become a FM and not act upon that list? I say Arya, linear to Sansa, gains the power to do something about what has plagued them the whole series, and she regains her identity as Arya Stark. I like the idea of Jeyne and Arya meeting somehow, and I am putting my money on Arya seeing someone with her identity running around and she sees a chance to jump back into her own identity. Wouldn't it be weird if she murdered Jeyne and assumed her appearance, the real Arya Stark posing as the fake Arya Stark? I'm most intrigued at what is going to become of Arya, when it comes to the FM and what they can do, I always find myself questioning who exactly in the world is a FM and what their motives might be. Arya is one we know for certain can change identities, and that leaves a limitless horizon for where her story arch could lead her.


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What interests me most about the whole Arya-Jeyne story line is the 'identity' situation.



Jeyne: CONSTANTLY being reminded NOT to forget her name {now that she's Arya}. And she wants to do it right and please the people who want her to fool others! Tortured, beaten, threatened, heaps of humiliation and terror and through it all she wants to please. Mainly Theon because duh, she knows him from her Jeyne-days so she clings. And we all know who Theon/Reek is trying to please. As a lil somethin'-somethin' to think about try this; if Jeyne was gona blame Arya for anything that's happened to her or the Starks, wouldn't she hate Theon for killing and burning the lil guys? She too thinks Theon killed the Stark boys. So, yeah.



Arya: CONSTANTLY being reminded of who and what she isn't anymore should she choose to remain and become a FM. FW...FP? Anyways, She's having to experience losing bit by bit everything that made her who she was as ARYA. Excepting Needle and her warginess. She chose to keep Needle and embraced her warg-side but it seems in almost everything else she wants to please and get it right. Like Jeyne she has daily reminders of her new non-identity. Like Jeyne she can't stay where she is if she can't comply and BOTH are terrified of what would come after since it is unknown {though they're both pretty sure it involves dying} and they are both among strangers. And isn't it kinda fun how the Boltons are relying on BOTH arya's to stay where they are and keep their moufs shut? And isn't it kinda fitting how Jeyne's having an identity pounded into her while real Arya is having hers beaten out of her?



I don't see Arya killing Jeyne but I do see some problems ahead if Jeyne, in her terror, goes mental and won't admit that she's not Arya Stark but Jeyne Poole. She has Theon/Reek teaching her to remember so I'm guessing it's gona be hard for her to forget it. Or would that be remembering it?

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I do think Jeyne would be terrified for sure. I think that's her nature after all she's been through, would arya hurt her though? I think she'd show pity but does no one know pity?

Arya does not know pity, empathy, or mercy anymore. I don't think she'd care how Jeyne felt. Jeyne was never a real person to Arya, and I think she'd be less so now. There is small danger of poor noseless mutilated Jeyne ever calling Arya ANYTHING again, much less horseface.

I am not sure what the basis is for assuming that Arya retains empathy. She apparently killed the harmless and guiltless Mercy for her face, because Mercy hadn't been gone long enough for anyone to notice the switch. If Mercy were a suicide, I think the company would have talked about how depressed and worried she had been only a week or two ago, as opposed to how cheerful she was hopping around once Arya was inhabiting her. But she hadn't been absent or moping or depressed. Nobody noticed any change in her, or asked her where she'd been--ergo, although Arya enjoyed "being" her, would "miss" her, and liked her, that hadn't stopped her from killing Mercy. So I don't see what would stop her from killing anybody, as long as it was convenient and in some way beneficial to Arya, even briefly.

I don't see Arya killing Jeyne but I do see some problems ahead if Jeyne, in her terror, goes mental and won't admit that she's not Arya Stark but Jeyne Poole. She has Theon/Reek teaching her to remember so I'm guessing it's gona be hard for her to forget it. Or would that be remembering it?

There's nothing "mental" about Jeyne's claiming to be Arya. She hasn't "forgotten" anything, she just doesn't want to die. If Arya shows up, she might just kill Jeyne for the fun of it. She likes killing. There doesn't really have to be a reason anymore.

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Arya does not know pity, empathy, or mercy anymore. I don't think she'd care how Jeyne felt. Jeyne was never a real person to Arya, and I think she'd be less so now. There is small danger of poor noseless mutilated Jeyne ever calling Arya ANYTHING again, much less horseface.

I am not sure what the basis is for assuming that Arya retains empathy. She apparently killed the harmless and guiltless Mercy for her face, because Mercy hadn't been gone long enough for anyone to notice the switch. If Mercy were a suicide, I think the company would have talked about how depressed and worried she had been only a week or two ago, as opposed to how cheerful she was hopping around once Arya was inhabiting her. But she hadn't been absent or moping or depressed. Nobody noticed any change in her, or asked her where she'd been--ergo, although Arya enjoyed "being" her, would "miss" her, and liked her, that hadn't stopped her from killing Mercy. So I don't see what would stop her from killing anybody, as long as it was convenient and in some way beneficial to Arya, even briefly.

There's nothing "mental" about Jeyne's claiming to be Arya. She hasn't "forgotten" anything, she just doesn't want to die. If Arya shows up, she might just kill Jeyne for the fun of it. She likes killing. There doesn't really have to be a reason anymore.

Where did you get that she killed "Mercy?" She didn't kill the Ugly Little Girl. And she does not like killing in general, and she most definitely needs a reason- that reason being (mainly) vengeance or survival.

As for empathy, she helped Sam in AFFC, even gave him free food. She's been very empathetic, else why would she have so many names on her list that were cruel MoFos that hurt someone else in front of her?

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I'd say she is somewhere in the middle. She would kill an innocent if she had a motive or just because she wanted to and she has killed people who were no threat to her or anyone she cared about before.



Having no empathy would also apply to her family members and everyone she comes in contact with. She is not truly someone with no empathy. That would be Roose Bolton who shows it with his indifference to his children being killed.



Arya is not at Jaqen's stage where she can kill someone and take their face. The FM have to provide a face for her. They showed her the place where they store faces. The KM already told her in ADWD that he would give her a face that was pretty as her own. Mercy came from him which he likely took out of the storage of faces they have.



That doesn't mean that I think that she's incapable of pulling a Jaqen/Pate for moral reasons but for the fact that she doesn't have ability to change her face on her own yet.



As for Jeyne I'm not seeing the chummy reunion. They don't like each other. That did not change even with time. Jeyne doesn't know the current Arya and what she is capable of so it's best they never meet.



ETA: On Justin Massey she has dragons and krakens in her future so I'm thinking that Justin is misdirection just like the assumption that something would happen when she met Sam. She will go in the other direction so she can meet up with the other POVs in Essos although I do not think she will go to Slaver's Bay.


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  • 1 month later...

How will she get out of Braavos, though? I could see her being sent as "Arya Stark" to spy on Dany, maybe around the time she gets to either Pentos (for the Tattered Prince) or Volantis (the slave revolt, plus they started the war when they invaded). Not sure about the Krakens- the two big fleets seem to be either in Slaver's Bay with Victarion or harrying the Reach and Arbor under Euron. Braavos is as far north as the Vale, and between the navy and the merchants I don't see the krakens getting close without kicking up a hornet's nest. We would have heard about that through Arya's spying.



At this point I think seeing something shocking (Lady Stoneheart?) through Nymeria, hearing about Jon's assassination (successful or otherwise, revival or no) or oneofher siblings (Rickon or Sansa) raising the banners, or (maybe) meeting the fake "Arya" would be enough to bring her back. The only way I see her going east on her own (and not as part of a sleeper agent northern claimant in Dany's court, and/or a dragon warg on behalf of the FM) is if she decides a la Tyrion that she too wants to see a dragon and maybe convince their owner to burn some Freys and Lannisters. But that won't happen without either the FM sending her or after she breaks with them, and I don't see her breaking with them for anything less than family.


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I doubt Jeyne will have much more of a role, though maybe just in passing.

Arya has a lot of ground to cover and Jeyne ranks lower than even Polliver.

Though, there is another Arya out there going by the name of Nymeria, and I hope they get to meet again and do more than just howl at one another ;)

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I don't see how GRRM could resist having them meet.. or at least placing Jeyne where Arya could observe her , and piece together her story.



This would provide a valuable opportunity for character growth for Arya. Whether or not Jon becomes aware Jeyne is not Arya beforehand, I think Jeyne will be Braavos bound.



I think Arya, having faced real hardship, and having matured considerably, would recognise that Jeyne's past treatment of her was not only childish, but child's play by comparison. I think she actually would have a good deal of sympathy.. and would be angered to realise that she would have been the one in Jeyne's place if she had been caught.



She could come to know a lot about Littlefinger , and could come to know that Jon tried to rescue her. This could all be powerful motivation for Arya.


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How will she get out of Braavos, though? I could see her being sent as "Arya Stark" to spy on Dany, maybe around the time she gets to either Pentos (for the Tattered Prince) or Volantis (the slave revolt, plus they started the war when they invaded). Not sure about the Krakens- the two big fleets seem to be either in Slaver's Bay with Victarion or harrying the Reach and Arbor under Euron. Braavos is as far north as the Vale, and between the navy and the merchants I don't see the krakens getting close without kicking up a hornet's nest. We would have heard about that through Arya's spying.

At this point I think seeing something shocking (Lady Stoneheart?) through Nymeria, hearing about Jon's assassination (successful or otherwise, revival or no) or oneofher siblings (Rickon or Sansa) raising the banners, or (maybe) meeting the fake "Arya" would be enough to bring her back. The only way I see her going east on her own (and not as part of a sleeper agent northern claimant in Dany's court, and/or a dragon warg on behalf of the FM) is if she decides a la Tyrion that she too wants to see a dragon and maybe convince their owner to burn some Freys and Lannisters. But that won't happen without either the FM sending her or after she breaks with them, and I don't see her breaking with them for anything less than family.

She has already decided that.

ACoK:

"If I had wings...I'd just fly away, fly up past the moon and the shining stars, and see all the things in Old Nan's stories, dragons and seamonsters and the Titan of Braavos, and maybe I wouldn't ever fly back unless I wanted to."

This was before she went to Braavos and even knew that the FM resided there. She also says seamonster which can mean kraken. There's another kraken reference in the next book. Speaking of which she paired seamonster with dragon before we even knew of the Euron/Victarion stuff.

She says it again in Mercy.

“The first Black Pearl was black as a pot of ink,” said Daena. “She was a pirate queen, fathered by a Sealord’s son on a princess from the Summer Isles. A dragon king from Westeros took her for his lover.”

“I would like to see a dragon,” Mercy said wistfully.

Victarion is in Slaver's Bay now but he is likely not going to stay there and the kraken could always be Euron not Victarion or both. In Mercy Arya also fixes a horn which could foreshadow the dragon horn that Victarion has.

Besides, in AGoT she mentioned being a stowaway and going on adventures. She could definitely hitch a ride back to Westeros.

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  • 3 weeks later...

How funny would it be for Arya to kill 'Arya' and take her face?

Then Boltons starting to disappear... :D

That's definitely a possibility. Although Jeyne might choose the pool of death, so Arya won't need to kill her. Or Arya can pretend to be Jeyne Poole and serve fArya as a means to reach Westeros
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Don't see why you would call that "funny". Strange sense of humour. But anyway.

I simply don't see why she would kill Jeyne. It is a bizarre thing to hope happens. Killing is not the only skill Arya has people. she can do other things too and her murders are not random.

Jeyne is not on her list.

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I'd say she is somewhere in the middle. She would kill an innocent if she had a motive or just because she wanted to and she has killed people who were no threat to her or anyone she cared about before.

Where are you getting that she would ever kill anyone innocent? And who has she killed that hasn't been a threat to her?

Dareon doesn't count because nobody in the North would hesitate to kill a NW deserter. She was raised in a culture where killing NW deserters is what her family does. You wouldn't say that Ned murdered Will, so why is it different for Arya and Dareon?

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