Bakker XXVI: Atrocious predictions, piled

[Bolivar]

I don't think it's possible as Akka tells her he met Esmenet sometime after she was born then specifies the first time he met her she was trying to buy an imperial tax pardon (or something) to void the sale of Mimara into slavery. So unless they somehow met before and didn't realize it, it's unlikely. Not to mention it would make their own liason really messed up.

Although, on the day she showed up on his doorstep he wrote "NAU-CAYUTI?" on his parchment for some unknown reason, as his dream was unrelated.

Also, didn't she have the judging eye before the pregnancy? I thought she reflected on it the day she showed up and Achamian asks if she's ever seen Kellhus with it.

[Anatúrinbor]

Regarding the Sagas and Seswatha and NC,

It's worth remembering that the only copy of the Sagas was in the possession of Seswatha after the destruction of Sauglish *IIRC). He must have edited things out and perhaps inserted some things to his liking. But more importantly, this means that all of the info that we have on the first Apocalypse came from one source: Seswatha (via the dreams and the Sagas.)

Now my crackpot is that TUC will reveal Seswatha to be a sort of Bayaz from TFL trilogy, but the idea that he created both the Mandate and the Dunyain is something I am convinced of at this point.

[Diziet]

Also, I was just reading the appendix of TTT. It says that many believed Nau-Cayuti to be the son of Seswatha. Didn't Seswatha and Nau-Cayuti go to Golgoterrath together? I seen where someone had the theory that Mimara is actually Akka's daughter and their now headed towards Golgoterrath. Like these are just different characters of the first apocalypse. And it will all play out the same. I sure hope not. Also there wasn't Dunyain around the first time.

Does it? I recall that this idea only came to light in TJE with the new Nau-Cayuti dreams that Akka received.

[Diziet]

I thought we came to the conclusion that this shit was relatively minor last time we had this discussion? I mean, I'd like to see sales before we immediately take credit for "destroying" a midlist author's career based on the fact that he had some reviews from the Guardian and now he doesn't.

The point is that he was a respectable author early on, now it's common knowledge all over the internet that he's a joke and a misogynist who isn't selling enough to be sure whether he's going to finish the story or not. And btw, what I meant is that those threads were what brought his demented views on genders and his knack for trolling to light, not that the people here are to blame for something that wasn't called for. It was bound to come out sooner or later I guess.

[Borque]

I always pimp TSA to people who like the ASOIAF books. Some success so far, though it's very much hit and miss.

Weird, since I think these books are much better in almost every way than basically anything in Fantasy, barring Tolkien.

Unless it's just me that's weird.

[Maithanet]

I always pimp TSA to people who like the ASOIAF books. Some success so far, though it's very much hit and miss.

Weird, since I think these books are much better in almost every way than basically anything in Fantasy, barring Tolkien.

Unless it's just me that's weird.

Everyone has his or her own taste though, and Bakker is very much not for everyone. Hell, I really like the series, and I think calling it "better in almost every way than basically anything in Fantasy" is much too generous.

[Anatúrinbor]

 

I don't think that this is correct. I once postulated something similar thinking myself clever, but I think it was the Nonman's history book that saw only one copy survive the fall of Sauglish in Seswatha's hands. Now he could still have rewritten some history there, but I don't think it was the Sagas. Starts with an I.

Damn... You're right. The Isuphiryas, not the Sagas. I actually thought about checking to make sure before posting that but thought it was too much of a hassle... But there has be some payoff on that, he must have rewritten or hid something.

[Diziet]

So......I can't believe a forum ruined his career. It has to be with his publishing and the ability to get his name and the series out there.

If I remember correctly, he did blame Disciple of the Dog's low sales on a cosmic conspiracy against Canadian authors (or was it a Canadian conspiracy against fantasy authors/himself?)

Now my crackpot is that TUC will reveal Seswatha to be a sort of Bayaz from TFL trilogy,

Yep. He started the Apocalypse; betrayed the king and fucked his wife; lied to Nau-Cayuti about his concubine and used him; he burned the white ships; damned generation after generation of Mandate Schoolmen (lose your soul to save the world, what a joke...) The idea that this guy would damn himself to save the world seems unlikely to me, especially since he probably knows that most of that world is damned like he is.

[Castel]

Quite frankly the Mandate's whole philosophy shows why they "get 'em young". It's telling that people here can't even see them winning in the way they dream as a happy ending, they'd much rather have Kellhus pull some magic trick and shut out the Outside.

[Diziet]

Atrocius crackpot prediction: (has probably already been speculated)

re: Deceptive events after Nau-Cayuti's death; Seswatha's expulsion from Atrithau.

Seswatha founded the Dunyain and the Mandate, with the idea that they would remain separated until the Dunyain were strong enough to take full advantage of the Gnosis. This would require them to do a few thousand years of breeding and training, so he created the two separate orders, knowing they would eventually merge to either destroy or resurrect Tsurumah.

I doubt something like this is mentioned in the Sagas. Afterall, Akka, Kellhus, Esmenet, and many others have read it and yet no one mentioned the Dunyain being in there.

Really weird that he would tell us about these deceptive events without expanding on them in the Apocalypse entry.

edit:

Quite frankly the Mandate's whole philosophy shows why they "get 'em young". It's telling that people here can't even see them winning in the way they dream as a happy ending, they'd much rather have Kellhus pull some magic trick and shut out the Outside.

I think the most ironic thing about this series is that it might actually have a happy ending...

[Latan]

Now I think we are going off the rails with these personal attacks, calling him a joke and a misogynist with demented views on gender. No one here has ever met the man or even spoken to him, there is no one who could legitimately make such a statement.

[Diziet]

He definitely has some demented views on gender. But those aren't entirely my views, only the general impression that I feel Bakker leaves on the internet.

[buff daddy]

He definitely has some demented views on gender. But those aren't entirely my views, only the general impression that I feel Bakker leaves on the internet.

According to you maybe. In my eyes, he's just an author who made the unfortunate choice to engage internet personas more concerned with twisting his words to squeeze every last drop of perceived misogyny out of them than having any kind of honest discussion.

[Anatúrinbor]

For some reason I sense a flame war coming...

I think the most ironic thing about this series is that it might actually have a happy ending...

I think he's going to make another LotR tribute in a sense by ending the series with Earwa becoming mundane and meaningless. Which I guess might be a happy ending?

[Diziet]

According to you maybe. In my eyes, he's just an author who made the unfortunate choice to engage internet personas more concerned with twisting his words to squeeze every last drop of perceived misogyny out of them than having any kind of honest discussion.

Heh. There is actually no need to twist anything,

In NP, for instance, one of the ‘future facts’ referenced is the discovery of a ‘rape module’ in male brains. It seems to be the case, for instance, that ‘male sexual vigilance’ is keyed to unconscious estimations of female vulnerability, that some men, at least, seem to track women according to automatic estimates of their ‘rapability.’ As dismaying as this possibility is, it seems to make a whole helluva lot of evolutionary sense...

[Diziet]

For some reason I sense a flame war coming...

I think he's going to make another LotR tribute in a sense by ending the series with Earwa becoming mundane and meaningless. Which I guess might be a happy ending?

Depends on how it's accomplished. If the Consult wins and the No-God rules the world after the death of the human race, then that's a happy ending for me.

[Sci-2]

I don't think there's much of anything to learn from Bakker's novels about gender. In that regard any supposed relevance is exaggerated by certain fans.

What most people want out of a fantasy novel can be found in other works. There's this illusion that Bakker is offering something rebellious and thus an example of more genuine art, but really I think it's just one more niche in the variety of offerings that are out there.

The prose is better than most fantasy authors though.

[Anatúrinbor]

It's kind of funny that there are three Bakker threads on the front page at the moment, all disguised under titles irrelevant to the current discussions.

[Diziet]

I revived some threads by commenting on the actual topic of the threads. Not my fault that it all turned into generic discussions of TSA. :P

[buff daddy]

Heh. There is actually no need to twist anything,

The dude writes word-vomit about every half baked hypothetical idea he has on his blog, you could probably find a quote to support any position you wanna accuse him of.