Bakker XXVI: Atrocious predictions, piled

[Anatúrinbor]

That's a possibility. All the questions are answered (No-God, Gods, Kellhus, Damnation, etc.) and then when all the stakes are clear, the No-God rises. But I do think that there has to be something regarding Mimara's JE and the No-God.

Whatever happens though, the book is really going to end with Interlude: Ishual, (4111, Year-of-the-Tusk), Moenghus finds Kellhus buried in the snow, drags him back to Ishual and scolds him for running off while talking about "adventures." The third series is called "Gotcha!" and it will be filled with nothing but AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Which would explain why the title is such a huge spoiler as to not be revealed.

[Diziet]

Whatever happens though, the book is really going to end with Interlude: Ishual, (4111, Year-of-the-Tusk), Moenghus finds Kellhus buried in the snow, drags him back to Ishual and scolds him for running off while talking about "adventures." The third series is called "Gotcha!" and it will be filled with nothing but AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Which would explain why the title is such a huge spoiler as to not be revealed.

Could be. The God is dreaming the world after all...

[Bolivar]

Yeah personally I would like Bakker to have a structure no one expects, since I think everyone anticipates the No God to rise at the end of TUC and the final series to deal with that.

But I have also seen him refer to The Consult as a giant red herring so who knows.

[sologdin]

AK chases red herring into empty northern waste, and like DA, finds nothing. fin.

[lokisnow]

You're saying that we won't get answers or that the answers won't be satisfying?

I actually think we will ignore a lot of the answers, even if they are stated outright.

One of the big questions here after TJE was published was "who is Kelmomas' voice? Ajokli, Kellhus or Samarmis?" Textually, everything in context of Kelmomas perspective implies it is Samarmis, but it was vague enough there were the two counter theories.

In WLW Bakker is explicit and very clear in stating three or four times that the voice is Samarmis, he even has Inrilatis confirm it so that we don't just have Kelmomas' perspective on Samarmis' voice.

The debate is still active, because if one is committed to one's position, one will find ways to confirm that position or dismiss evidence. It's actually fairly classic human behavior, and fascinating to watch play out.

I actually felt in many places in WLW that Bakker was trying to answer most of the most popular questions from TJE in the text of WLW.

[Diziet]

Yeah personally I would like Bakker to have a structure no one expects, since I think everyone anticipates the No God to rise at the end of TUC and the final series to deal with that.

But I have also seen him refer to The Consult as a giant red herring so who knows.

Where did he say this?

I think I read in a previous thread a quote from Bakker where he says the 2nd Apocalypse starts in AE and ends with the third series. He also said that all the character arcs started in TDTCB (Kellhus, Akka, Esmi, etc...) will end with TUC so I expect Kellhus' children and Sorweel to be the main characters of the third series.

[Anatúrinbor]

I expect Kellhus' children and Sorweel to be the main characters of the third series.

Good call. I expect Mimara to die giving birth to the No-God's child.

[Sci-2]

Ah, but perhaps despite their intelligence both Kelmo and Inralatus are mistaken by the Trickster god Ajokli? Perhaps it is they who are too committed to their position. :P

Or, to borrow from another book*, the "Trickster" is just a particular set of brain patterns that evokes the part of the God - who is the sum of all conscious entities - that aligns with that archetype.

So there are no gods, at least in any continuous personality sense, but these patterns are memes caught in the natural selection of the Ideal World o' Forms, battling it out via the minds of mortals. Consider Wheeler's ideas on observer-participancy to see how this relates to the JE seeing outside of time...

*The Fractal Prince:

There are particular god like entities, including the "Quantum Thief" the trilogy is based around, who end up having been born from brain scans of one of the first uploaded minds. He scanned his own brain while thinking about the imaginary friends he made up, and turned them into conscious entities of their own.

[Bolivar]

Where did he say this?

In part 1 of the interview on Pat's site when WLW.

http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com/2011/06/new-r-scott-bakker-interview-part-1.html?m=1

- In THE WHITE-LUCK WARRIOR we get some hints about the stakes that are being played for, the notion that the Consult want to reduce the population of Earwa to a specific decimal number which has Biblical significance. Was your intention here to draw a direct parallel between the story of Kellhus and the Great Ordeal and that Biblical source, or was it merely an easter egg and the correlation itself is not significant?

Is an easter egg the same thing as a herring? If so, theres a whole whap of them in the books.

At a closer glance, he might be talking more about little references than the goals of the consult, though.

[Diziet]

I think that's in reference to the specific 144,000 number, he's saying that the relation to the bible where that number is taken could be a red herring.I certiainly would not expect him to say that the consult is a red herring.

[Francis Buck]

Somnambulist, also known as SpiralHorizion, has been doing some artistic interpretations of the Hundred, and they're fucking amazing. Ya'll need to witness:

Yatwer

Ajokli

Gilgaol

[Diziet]

He should do a Non-woman illustration.

[Larry of the Lawn]

I have spent a hours looking at SpiralHorizon's stuff. Awesome.

crackpot:

Probably just a throw away line, but in TJE, this description of Kelmomas and Samarmas before the were 'split' into two souls seems like it could be twisted into a connection between Kelmomas and the No-God:

All he remember were the squalls of blowing hurt and wheezing gratification, and a hunger so elemental that it swallowed the space between them, soldered their faces into a single soul. The tutors and physicians had droned from the edges, not so much ignored as overlooked by a two bodied creature who stared endlessly into its own eyes.

Especially the bolded parts, can't help but think of the whirlwind gazing at itself doing the old Mog-Pharau standard interrogation.

[Diziet]

Something from another thread,

What would people think if it turns out that the Dûnyain basically keep women around as little more than breeding stock?

It depends on how far Bakker takes the Dunyain / Dune parallel. I think it's possible, as someone suggested in the TSA podcast, that the Dunyain women run everything. Perhaps that's why he keeps saying that his critics should wait until the end of the series before they call me a misogynist. Or it could be that he's making a Foundation parallel and its Seswatha who created the Dunyain.

Honestly, with all the references, homages, parallels that he's making to real world events and to other series series (Dune, Lotr, Foundation, HHG, White Plague, etc...) I'm honestly starting to wonder if there is anything original in his series. Perhaps the rape aliens invading a fantasy world? Anyone else done that before him?

[Anatúrinbor]

I'm honestly starting to wonder if there is anything original in his series. Perhaps the rape aliens invading a fantasy world? Anyone else done that before him?

Heh. That's basically the storyline of most Hentai and tentacle porn manga.

[SilentRoamer]

I just googled Hentai - that shit should be illegal....

[Diziet]

Heh. That's basically the storyline of most Hentai and tentacle porn manga.

But is there any other series that combined SF with F in a similar way?

[sologdin]

doesn't lovecraft mix aliens with fantasy stuff?

morgan has rape faeries and aliens. weis & hickman had a fantasy land that gets invaded by high tech scifi people. far future often mixes of scifi with fantasy stuff: vance (DE and otherwise); BotNS, the einstein intersection, dreamsnake, mark lawrence.

[Francis Buck]

Lovecraft's stuff strikes me more as alien/tech so far beyond human knowledge that it seems like magic, but it's debatable.

Regardless, some descriptions of the Hundred (especially in TAE) are Lovecraftian as shit.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Zioz too.