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Tad Williams announces THE LAST KING OF OSTEN ARD, a sequel to MEMORY, SORROW AND THORN


aidan

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Not sure if I posted this here already, but I've always interpreted the Garden situation like Valinor and Middle Earth. It's a physical place on the same planet, but unreachable due to to metaphysical / magic stuff.


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DC,

"Ocean" could be metaphore for space.

Before I reread the series earlier this year, I thought this as well based on vague memories from when I read it back in the early 90s.

But on reread, it's really quite obvious imo that it's not a metaphor for space. There's too many references to things like the spray of water in their face and such. Just the way they talk about it doesn't support the space metaphor except in one single passage.

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While I have fond memories of Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn, the story and world building aren't exactly very deep. Is there any reason for a sequel other than money? As these books will probably come with tons of retcon I'm not looking forward to them.

What? I always was of the opinion, that MS&T had one of the best worldbuilding in fantasy literature.

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Simon and Miriamele are rather insufferable characters and a few tropes are overused and it's too long. But overall it is quite good (although I am not sure I will read it again and will wait for a few reviews befor buying the new one).


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What? I always was of the opinion, that MS&T had one of the best worldbuilding in fantasy literature.

Really?

I'd say it's got a decent feel when it comes to it's immortal races, but worldbuilding is shallow as hell.

The world feels REALLY REALLY tiny and almost every part of it is really underdeveloped. It's like if Western Europe in the Middle Ages was the only part of the world that existed or something. And there's very little sense of the culture of basically anywhere.

I mean, it doesn't really hurt the story too much (the smallness is really weird and enough to detract a bit) but that doesn't mean it's that good.

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Really?

I'd say it's got a decent feel when it comes to it's immortal races, but worldbuilding is shallow as hell.

The world feels REALLY REALLY tiny and almost every part of it is really underdeveloped. It's like if Western Europe in the Middle Ages was the only part of the world that existed or something. And there's very little sense of the culture of basically anywhere.

I mean, it doesn't really hurt the story too much (the smallness is really weird and enough to detract a bit) but that doesn't mean it's that good.

Well, most fantasy stories are set in a world, not much bigger than Europe. Do we know how big the world really is? No. I thought Osten Ard was just like a continent in a bigger world. Like Middle-Earth for example.

And I had the feeling, that Williams made a great job with the different cultures. They have unique names, words and lifestyles.

I really don't know what your problem is.

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It's like if Western Europe in the Middle Ages was the only part of the world that existed or something. And there's very little sense of the culture of basically anywhere.

I don't want to sound snarky, but i guess you didn't read that book very closely. There is a much wider culture and era spread than western europe and the middle-ages.

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Well, most fantasy stories are set in a world, not much bigger than Europe. Do we know how big the world really is? No. I thought Osten Ard was just like a continent in a bigger world. Like Middle-Earth for example.

Middle-Earth can be bad for that too, but even it's far better then this series.

While most fantasy stories confine their action to a distinct area, there is still the rest of the world out there. Osten Ard is a fucking bubble consisting of 4 countries and some horsie people running around in the middle, some swamp people in the south and nothing but wasteland other then that. There is literally nothing outside Prestor Jon's kingdom but some small settlements of elves and trolls. Middle-Earth at least has all the bad brown-skinned people to the east, an area that is implied to be huge and go on and on.

And even the kingdoms there are feel pretty small, with a handful of major settlements.

It doesn't matter to the story that much, but it's really weird and quite noticeable to me on reread.

It's not terribly great worldbuilding.

And I had the feeling, that Williams made a great job with the different cultures. They have unique names, words and lifestyles.

I really don't know what your problem is.

They have unique styles of language, yes, but largely aren't all that different in action from one another and their cultures are never gone in to in great detail. They are all rather vaguely about the same other then some names and what's happening to each kingdom. There's not a terrible lot of differentiation going on with how they live and act.

Only the trolls or the swamp people or horsie people feel at all different and they are all shown fairly shallowly.

It's not actively hurting the story of anything for the most part, but claiming it's "one of the best in fantasy literature" is just stretching like mad. It's a tiny bubble world populated by a small handful of countries with vastly different naming schemes but little to differentiate them otherwise.

The one thing he does really well though is the people generally feel adequately religious. A thing not many authors cover well imo.

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