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[TWOW SPOILERS] March 2014 Preview Chapter Part IV

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That's funny because I saw the opposite. Although I'm not convinced that Mercy is playing anyone of significance in the play that hardly matters. Arya is using traits that Sansa had/has to achieve success. That is to me the opposite of criticism, it shows appreciation, perhaps an aquired or taught apreciation, but neverthless. There may be a cynical undertone in the writing but it may just as well be about others not seing trough the act, not seeing things for what they are. Maybe Arya suspects that part of Sansa's behaviour was an act, too.

I believe it has been decided that Arya is playing Shae, not Sansa. I thought she was Sansa as well the first time I read it, but on a closer look you can tell she is Shae. Shae is the one who went to court and said in front of everyone that her and Tyrion made love, and Shae made it sound like she hated it and he 'made' her call him 'my lion'. I think it is widely known that him and Sansa never consummated.

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Decided by whom ?

BY everyone on the forum and on the 1st version of this thread. If you go back and look there is a ton of posters and evidence that clearly explain it. I though it was Sansa too at first, but I was wrong.

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I do not think a thread can come to a consensus and declare their findings "canon", that is, Martin needs to authenticate the information. However, writers might assert that "Mercy" unwittingly plays "Shae" as a way to involve the dwarf' in the action. But without textual evidence that demonstrates Mercy's imitating Shae's behavior, her manners, and her speech, it is unlikely that it can be proved.



Statements are best backed up by the text, by research sources, and by conscientious analysis.


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I read the entire 1st incarnation of this thread (yes, every page), and as I recall it was never everyone who had that opinion.

Ok Sorry I wasn't trying to insult, 'everyone' is just an expression, I think you knew what I meant. But if you listen to both sides and read the chapter again it is fairly clear that the part she is playing is Shae, not Sansa.

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Well, Evita MGF gave answer just now - the text (which we have so far) provides only clues, not certainty.


Edited by Pod The Impaler

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Well, Evita MGF gave answer just now - the text (which we have so far0 provides only clues, not certainty.

Ok Cool, So do you think she is playing Sansa? lets break it down. What about the role makes you think Sansa and not Shae?

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Remember, Tysha had a LOT of sex partners after her wedding to Tyrion. Any one of the Lannister men who had sex with her could havefathered Lanna. The Sailor's Wife might be Tysha, but Lanna has as much potential father as the child of Lollys Stokeworth.

That was the entire point of having her raped. This way, even though it's obvious Tyrion is the father from the bright gold hair, and probably other things about the girl's appearance, it can never be proven because of how many sexual partners she had that day.

I think Arya is playing Shae. I didn't think of it before...there's mention of a maid, and for some reason I didn't connect that with Shae, but of course that's who it's supposed to be.

Edited by Ladywhiskers

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The knight appeared a moment later, cursing and staggering, clad in breastplate and plumed helm and nothing else. His legs were pale and skinny, and his manhood flopped about obscenely as he chased after his horse. The watchers roared and shouted insults. Catching his horse by the bridle, Ser Dontos tried to mount, but the animal would not stand still and the knight was so drunk that his bare foot kept missing the stirrup.



“Mercy,” squeaked the dwarf Bobono, “Mercy, something’s amiss with my laces, my cock keeps flopping out.”



There is also some Ser Dontos in Bobono. Joffrey made him his fool and later tried to make a fool of Tyrion too.


Edited by Paper Waver

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Just wanted to say that I enjoyed the "Hamletish" play within a play.

The play mixes a lot of Shakespeare references together creating a mishmash. Notably though in terms of plot it has much more in common with Richard III, especially that opening monologue that the dwarf gives--it downright paraphrases the infamous beginning monologue to Richard III.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px5hvNWoVLE

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Ok Cool, So do you think she is playing Sansa? lets break it down. What about the role makes you think Sansa and not Shae?

The fruit knife belonged to Mercy. She was made for eating fruit, for smiling and joking, for working hard and doing as she was told.

“If the Snapper comes looking for me, tell her that I went off to read my lines again.” She only had a few, and most were just, “Oh, no, no, no,” and “Don’t, oh don’t, don’t touch me,” and “Please, m’lord, I am still a maiden”

These two lines, especially the latter, suggest to me it is Sansa, not Shae.

In the former, the part about doing what she was told seems to be an echo of Sansa always trying to be the good girl, sweet and obedient.

The latter line mentions Mercy's character is a maiden - a virgin.

She was known to be a whore, certainly no innocent maiden. What maiden did Tyrion have in his life (that the playright would know about) ?

There would be little drama in raping a lowborn whore, but the innocent maid from the north ? Tyrion's wedding to Sansa was a big bit of scandal, especially that he had not taken her maidenhood. Perhaps the gist of the play is that he wanted to but perhaps could not function as a husband (a good bit of theatre, if the point is to humiliate the foe of Queen Cersei), but then at the end he is able because he monstrously rapes her, and then this leads to Joffrey's poisoning, where she leaves him to face trial alone.

However, I am open to the possibility that the line may also mean the play is supposed to show Tyrion raping a common maid (Shae) and making her into his whore, though this runs counter to what would be publicly known about Shae.

Edited by Pod The Impaler

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Doesn't Shae pretend to be an innocent maiden with a fiancee at the trial? Supposing the playwright (distant relative of Syrio Forel) was at the trial/heard accounts of the trial, he would be forced to assume that Shae was the innocent that she pretended to be at the trial.


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Doesn't Shae pretend to be an innocent maiden with a fiancee at the trial? Supposing the playwright (distant relative of Syrio Forel) was at the trial/heard accounts of the trial, he would be forced to assume that Shae was the innocent that she pretended to be at the trial.

Yes Exactly. The only public knowledge of Shae is what she said at the trial.

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Excuse me if it has been asked above but the guards mention about a queen that will have Suift's head if he returns without gold. But Kevan sent him to Braavos not the queen. So it means Cersei has come back to power (as it seems impossible Queen Margaery uses such language) and won her trial?


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Excuse me if it has been asked above but the guards mention about a queen that will have Suift's head if he returns without gold. But Kevan sent him to Braavos not the queen. So it means Cersei has come back to power (as it seems impossible Queen Margaery uses such language) and won her trial?

It was discussed, yes, even before that, but you can look at pg. 5 and 6 of the current thread, starting from my post number 94. Me and some other posters are discussing whether it's a confirmation or merely a possibility that Cersei is the queen that they are talking about.

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It was discussed, yes, even before that, but you can look at pg. 5 and 6 of the current thread, starting from my post number 94. Me and some other posters are discussing whether it's a confirmation or merely a possibility that Cersei is the queen that they are talking about.

Just read it!thank you!

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I wonder what this chapter says about the fate of Tycho Nestoris and Justin Massey. It seems to at least indicate that Bravos has not yet fully and openly thrown in with Stannis. I have to say that I thought there was more to a contract with the Iron Bank than the simple piece of paper, especially when Stannis signed in blood. If the Iron Bank won't know about the contract unless Tycho safely arrives back in Bravos, the deal does not have a high chance of success.


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I wonder what this chapter says about the fate of Tycho Nestoris and Justin Massey. It seems to at least indicate that Bravos has not yet fully and openly thrown in with Stannis. I have to say that I thought there was more to a contract with the Iron Bank than the simple piece of paper, especially when Stannis signed in blood. If the Iron Bank won't know about the contract unless Tycho safely arrives back in Bravos, the deal does not have a high chance of success.

You think Tycho wont make it back safely?

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You think Tycho wont make it back safely?

His ships are sent to Hardhome by Jon and it is highly probable they they either sunk or used as palisade walls Mel saw in her vision.

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