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Westeros

Season 4 Impressions

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^It means that we likely will see Dorne next year though. One way to do that would be to have Varys go there (perhaps after sailing with Tyrion for a time) and have him come up against Arianne's plans and maybe strike some sort of deal with Doran. It would work best with a known character and main cast member to introduce us and it really wouldn`t need more than five or six scenes to establish what we need to know for whatever happens between Faegon and Arianne later on.

No need to overcomplicate things with Varys going there, Ellaria will act as a satisfactory bridge character. I mean Stannis was introduced with no bridge characters whatsoever, just people mentioning who he was and what he was up to. Also given that Varys' motives are still veiled in mystery we can't really say whether a change like that could be made without completely shifting the series end game.

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I never said Elio or Linda ranted. In my comment I said that the review they gave was mostly positive. I was referring to some comments in this thread when I ranted about people complaining. And yes, there can be excessive ranting. Sometimes I'm guilty of it myself.


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Varys better disappears until he murders Kevan and Pycelle, just as the books. Conleth Hill (and Varys) has a life, he doesn't need to stand in the background all the time

They'll never have regular/main characters disappear for long stretches of time or entire seasons. It's fine for the books, but it's just not the way television works. In the US at least, in the UK actors are contracted season by season, but GoT is HBO.

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Given that most TV critics have been pretty much unanimously positive in their reviews, and even Elio and Linda can't seem to find anything to rant about, I'd say these first few episodes are looking pretty good so far. I'm sure certain fans will fly off the rails at Stannis (grudgingly, and with an obvious moral conflict) condoning the burning of "heretics," Jaime forcing himself on Cersei (there can certainly be blurred lines when it comes to sex), and Sansa having no "agency" in her escape (what does that even mean, anyway?), but I for one really can't wait for the premiere. One more day to go!



Oh, and to all the people ranting before they've even seen the episodes: it's perfectly fine to review the show as an adaptation, but first you do have to concede that we're watching fantastic television. Try and appreciate it for its own merits before diving into why it's not as good as the books.


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Given that most TV critics have been pretty much unanimously positive in their reviews, and even Elio and Linda can't seem to find anything to rant about, I'd say these first few episodes are looking pretty good so far. I'm sure certain fans will fly off the rails at Stannis (grudgingly, and with an obvious moral conflict) condoning the burning of "heretics," Jaime forcing himself on Cersei (there can certainly be blurred lines when it comes to sex), and Sansa having no "agency" in her escape (what does that even mean, anyway?), but I for one really can't wait for the premiere. One more day to go!

Oh, and to all the people ranting before they've even seen the episodes: it's perfectly fine to review the show as an adaptation, but first you do have to concede that we're watching fantastic television. Try and appreciate it for its own merits before diving into why it's not as good as the books.

Maybe you should add the word "fictional" to that sentence, as to avoid offending all the people who would disagree with you.

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Your right, no one can say this isn't amazing TV (well it isn't, it's HBO). There will always be a gap between book characters and ones on screen, for many reasons. It feels like certain character/s are being portrayed in a significantly different way for whatever reason, which is going to cause light some fires under the fans of said character/s.

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On the Sept scene, I just finished season one rewatch and the scene where Jamie says the war for cersei you know what is physical too, and cersei sort of resists him to no avail, so there is a hint within the show context that their relationship is a little like this.


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If Conleth has to make an appearance, he could be there in the first episode of season 5, escorting Tyrion to the ship (if that's not shown in this season). But I'm sure they can make it work. They will also be able to bring back Michelle Fairley, if UnCat makes an appearance. She was a major character in the first three season, and certainly isn't anymore...



And if I'm not mistaken, then Varys did not appear in all that many episodes throughout the first three seasons.



The introduction of Dorne should work just fine. We'll get 8 episodes with Oberyn this season, and Ellaria will be there as well, if they intend to keep her around. We'll get our glimpse on Dorne, it's culture, and the Dornishmen through them this season, and then it will feel natural to simply cut to Doran and Arianne. And Myrcella will be there, too.


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I think they can certainly have regular/main cast/characters appearing less like Jaime in season 2 or Davos in season 3, but they can't disappear completely, because of how the actors' contracts are. So Varys might appear a lot less, but will be there. I'm sure in MF's case they knew Cat was to die and come back so they worked around it, but even in her case I'm fairly sure she'll make an appearance this season.


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What about Bronn? Do you think things will go awry for him and he will be forced to sail with Tyrion just to keep him around? They seem to love him so much. I hope they don't cut Penny or Quentyn.



Also how do you think they will manage the Citadel subplot? We readers can't grasp fully grasp what happens there. The showrunners know but they can't spoil it yet in season 5 and I don't think they will cast Pate and his crew. And Jaqen H'gar with a brand new face. Even if they play his theme song the Unsullied won't get he is the Alchemist.


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As to the whole Varys thing, I think it would work quite nicely to have him go with Tyrion to Pentos to meet Illyrio, and maybe even travel on the roads with them, so that's two (quite long) scenes already, plus of course the epilogue chapter which is a very important and shocking scene, so Conleth would still be doing stuff, but it would save the need to deviate too far from the books just to give him more scenes.

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What about Bronn? Do you think things will go awry for him and he will be forced to sail with Tyrion just to keep him around? They seem to love him so much.

Since they've already had him doing training scenes with Jaime, I expect he'll continue on in that capacity and join Jaime's Riverlands tour (whatever we see of it) as his primary supporting character.

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Prince Doran is explicitly mentioned.

I don't know why, as it's such a small thing, but that makes me reeeaaaalllly happy. I guess I'm glad to know he hasn't been cut or put into some other character. It would have been doubly awesome if Oberyn said something like "your niece Myrcella has grown quite fond of my own niece Arianne." I have an unapologetic crush on Arianne, and I would have loved to hear that. Still, one extra Martell reference is more than enough to satisfy me.

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I don't know why, as it's such a small thing, but that makes me reeeaaaalllly happy. I guess I'm glad to know he hasn't been cut or put into some other character. It would have been doubly awesome if Oberyn said something like "your niece Myrcella has grown quite fond of my own niece Arianne." I have an unapologetic crush on Arianne, and I would have loved to hear that. Still, one extra Martell reference is more than enough to satisfy me.

What's cool is that there are still 7 episodes that haven't been seen so there are still plenty of opportunities for Martell references. And Greyjoy references too :D

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We don't know what sort of contract Conleth has. It's easily possible that they knew they would Varys only need as a main character for 4 seasons. They would have talked with GRRM about that, especially since Varys is absent from AFfC.


And the fact that he was not a member of the main cast in season 1 could reflect as much. If that's the case, then everything should be fine for season 5-6. Conleth should have time enough to come back for a short scene.



On Bronn: I think they will just kill him off. Perhaps even in this season; if not, then he may die during Jaime's campaign in the Riverlands. He does not serve a purpose and would be just dead weight if they kept writing stuff for him. Especially since they like to kill off characters they no longer need. Irri and Doreah died in Qarth, Rakharo died for no reason, and Ros was killed when Littlefinger left King's Landing. Why should Bronn survive when Tyrion leaves for Essos?



The Doran mentioning is indeed great:



In season 2 only 'House Martell' and 'the Martells' were mentioned, with no clarification as whose youngest son Myrcella's betrothed actually was. That could have enabled to cut Doran rather easily. It's really glad to see that they did not.


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On Bronn: I think they will just kill him off. Perhaps even in this season; if not, then he may die during Jaime's campaign in the Riverlands. He does not serve a purpose and would be just dead weight if they kept writing stuff for him. Especially since they like to kill off characters they no longer need. Irri and Doreah died in Qarth, Rakharo died for no reason, and Ros was killed when Littlefinger left King's Landing. Why should Bronn survive when Tyrion leaves for Essos?

Bronn is much more popular than any of the characters you list there.

In any event, if they want to be done with him after this season, they can simply write him off the way the books seemingly do (though GRRM has said we'll see him again in some capacity, i believe), by having him take the bribe and go off to be a lord in the country.

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I know as much, but they also like Richard Madden, Rose Leslie, Charles Dance, Jason Mamoa, and a ton of other actors that have to go eventually. And the show has a tendency to kill of characters rather than to allow them settle down somewhere. Hot Pie (and now Gendry) seem to exceptions. But I'm with you in the sense that I, too, would like to see Bronn's story go down as it did in the book.



GRRM admitted that he grew fond of Bronn, but I very much doubt that he will play a huge role in the books. He may soon be forced to fight and die for Stokeworth when the Golden Company marches on KL (either with Aegon or against him). And if he ends up in Aegon's camp, he'll most likely oppose Tyrion and Dany later on.



In the show he could serve as Jaime's sidekick during season 5, but that's about it I wager. There is no place for Bronn wherever Jaime and Brienne are now headed.



But that depends how the Jaime/Bronn dynamic unfolds this season. Jaime could be very pissed when Bronn refuses to champion Tyrion during the trial, and it would be a good closure if both of Tyrion's whores, Shae and Bronn had to go permanently...


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We don't know what sort of contract Conleth has. It's easily possible that they knew they would Varys only need as a main character for 4 seasons. They would have talked with GRRM about that, especially since Varys is absent from AFfC.

And the fact that he was not a member of the main cast in season 1 could reflect as much. If that's the case, then everything should be fine for season 5-6. Conleth should have time enough to come back for a short scene.

On Bronn: I think they will just kill him off. Perhaps even in this season; if not, then he may die during Jaime's campaign in the Riverlands. He does not serve a purpose and would be just dead weight if they kept writing stuff for him. Especially since they like to kill off characters they no longer need. Irri and Doreah died in Qarth, Rakharo died for no reason, and Ros was killed when Littlefinger left King's Landing. Why should Bronn survive when Tyrion leaves for Essos?

Like Theon was absent from asos? I think they tend not to do that, because they don't want to lose the option on the actors and having to recast them because they're busy doing something else. That's what a regular contract for an actor is; an actor is contracted for a certain amount of time and has to be available for the show during that time. That doesn't mean they have to use them as much they did with Theon last season (that was a mistake imo because it was too much) but reducing screen time is one thing, characters missing for an entire season is another. They don't do that.

As for Bronn, I doubt they'll kill him off because they really like him. They'll give him to Jaime so he has someone to snark with.

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What's cool is that there are still 7 episodes that haven't been seen so there are still plenty of opportunities for Martell references. And Greyjoy references too :D

To this day my favourite reference in all of Game of Thrones is when Tyrion says in 1x4: "I still remember seeing my father's fleet burn at Lannisport. I believe your uncles were responsible." Gotta love Bryan Cogman for throwing in a little vague reference to one of his favourites, Aeron.

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