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Westeros

Season 4 Impressions

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As for Bronn, I doubt they'll kill him off because they really like him. They'll give him to Jaime so he has someone to snark with.

Exactly. Remember, Jaime has adventures to come in the Riverlands. The actor who paid Ilyn Payne has sadly passed away. So if they want Jaime to have someone to interact with, (lest he start talking to himself,) then Bronn's a great choice.

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Exactly. Remember, Jaime has adventures to come in the Riverlands. The actor who paid Ilyn Payne has sadly passed away. So if they want Jaime to have someone to interact with, (lest he start talking to himself,) then Bronn's a great choice.

He passed away? Awww, that's sad :(

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I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure Wilko Johnson is still alive

That's what I thought, but I wasn't aware of any recent news, so I thought it may well have been true.

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Personally, this is definitely going to be the high point of the TV show. The things which are coming. I'd say by episode 2 everyone will be hooked and they can really sell this show. I envisage only a few quibling issues, things like the changes to Jorahs story personally; but those are trivial issues of a book fan. It won't stop the show being great and successful.



The problem going forward is Danys arc. I think every Unsullied is thinking that Dany is, okay, still in Essos, but essentially getting ready to invade for next season. She has the army, she has the dragons and she has the will. They've got rid of Rob and theres nothing to oppose the Lannisters. Her sudden decision to stay in Meereen could kill this show. Even if D&D (and believe me they are) going out of their way to condense as much of that material as possible into season 5 so they achieve what GRRM could not and have the Battle of Meereen as the finale. The problem is that everyone knows that Essos is a sideshow and theres already a sense that the show is dragging its feet and that story out.



I only see two ways out of this: 1- They have to absolutely convince you that they will kill off Daenerys (something GRRM did not do BTW) that her decision to stay in Meereen could end in her death to create drama 2- Sell the fact that if you keep watching, Tyrion will meet Dany and make this explicit from the very beginning and for gods sake deliver on that promise (something GRRM was incapable of doing). Unlike GRRM who can write whatever unfinished crap he wants, the show is far more beholden to viewer ratings. If people get bored or frustrated, the show dies. They cannot sell Dany spending season 5 and potentially all or part of season 6 in Essos.


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Personally, this is definitely going to be the high point of the TV show. The things which are coming. I'd say by episode 2 everyone will be hooked and they can really sell this show. I envisage only a few quibling issues, things like the changes to Jorahs story personally; but those are trivial issues of a book fan. It won't stop the show being great and successful.

The problem going forward is Danys arc. I think every Unsullied is thinking that Dany is, okay, still in Essos, but essentially getting ready to invade for next season. She has the army, she has the dragons and she has the will. They've got rid of Rob and theres nothing to oppose the Lannisters. Her sudden decision to stay in Meereen could kill this show. Even if D&D (and believe me they are) going out of their way to condense as much of that material as possible into season 5 so they achieve what GRRM could not and have the Battle of Meereen as the finale. The problem is that everyone knows that Essos is a sideshow and theres already a sense that the show is dragging its feet and that story out.

I only see two ways out of this: 1- They have to absolutely convince you that they will kill off Daenerys (something GRRM did not do BTW) that her decision to stay in Meereen could end in her death to create drama 2- Sell the fact that if you keep watching, Tyrion will meet Dany and make this explicit from the very beginning and for gods sake deliver on that promise (something GRRM was incapable of doing). Unlike GRRM who can write whatever unfinished crap he wants, the show is far more beholden to viewer ratings. If people get bored or frustrated, the show dies. They cannot sell Dany spending season 5 and potentially all or part of season 6 in Essos.

The Walking Dead had 13 episodes of the main characters doing fuck-all at a farm, and then one and a half seasons of them doing slightly more at a prison, and a lot of viewers were very bored and frustrated at this, yet the show is still insanely popular, and shows no signs of decreasing in that popularity. I think people are exaggerating how severe this drop in excitement and pacing will be. And they can sell people Dany sitting in Meereen that whole time. Look what they've done with King's Landing in season 3. Barely any plot development occurred, just a lot of scenes of people talking about stuff. A lot of people like Dany, plus the show will have the whole Daario love interest plot, as well as growing and more dangerous dragons, and an impending siege, and the arrival of Quentyn, which connects the two stories - Westeros and Essos - considerably. People will be less annoyed and bored at this than you think.

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Given that most TV critics have been pretty much unanimously positive in their reviews, and even Elio and Linda can't seem to find anything to rant about, I'd say these first few episodes are looking pretty good so far.

Except the GREY LADY.

Yep the New York Times is as befuddled as ever.

This is the fourth straight year , the second time for Mike Hale, that we get a fustercluck review of GOT.

I don't know if it's the editors of the Entertainment Section or all their TV reviewers are genre hostile?

It's a puzzle.

Its funny because one can find around the web reviewers who now make fun of the NYT's reviews of GOT.

(Oddly the Sunday Op Ed by Maureen Dowd (about GOT) is positive, it's not really a review.)

Also oddly, Dave Itzkoff, who I know is genre friendly writes feature essays for the NYT, not reviews of the show, that are always positive.

Let Itzkoff review the show , for god's sake, Grey Lady!

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Personally, this is definitely going to be the high point of the TV show. The things which are coming. I'd say by episode 2 everyone will be hooked and they can really sell this show. I envisage only a few quibling issues, things like the changes to Jorahs story personally; but those are trivial issues of a book fan. It won't stop the show being great and successful.

The problem going forward is Danys arc. I think every Unsullied is thinking that Dany is, okay, still in Essos, but essentially getting ready to invade for next season. She has the army, she has the dragons and she has the will. They've got rid of Rob and theres nothing to oppose the Lannisters. Her sudden decision to stay in Meereen could kill this show. Even if D&D (and believe me they are) going out of their way to condense as much of that material as possible into season 5 so they achieve what GRRM could not and have the Battle of Meereen as the finale. The problem is that everyone knows that Essos is a sideshow and theres already a sense that the show is dragging its feet and that story out.

I only see two ways out of this: 1- They have to absolutely convince you that they will kill off Daenerys (something GRRM did not do BTW) that her decision to stay in Meereen could end in her death to create drama 2- Sell the fact that if you keep watching, Tyrion will meet Dany and make this explicit from the very beginning and for gods sake deliver on that promise (something GRRM was incapable of doing). Unlike GRRM who can write whatever unfinished crap he wants, the show is far more beholden to viewer ratings. If people get bored or frustrated, the show dies. They cannot sell Dany spending season 5 and potentially all or part of season 6 in Essos.

The show is way more than just Dany. No one plotline boring people is capable of killing the whole narrative -- indeed, Dany's season 2 plotline bored a lot of people, and the show was unaffected.

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What she says and what she does kind of look like two different things to me. I'll leave it at that.

That actually sounds a lot like the scene from the book.

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The show is way more than just Dany. No one plotline boring people is capable of killing the whole narrative -- indeed, Dany's season 2 plotline bored a lot of people, and the show was unaffected.

Not only that, but Khaleesi Dany also remain as THE fan-favorite character after season 2, people here like to over react and think one slow season (most likely season 5) or one more season with Dany on Essos will translate in the majority of viewers leaving the show which is not true.

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They'll never have regular/main characters disappear for long stretches of time or entire seasons. It's fine for the books, but it's just not the way television works. In the US at least, in the UK actors are contracted season by season, but GoT is HBO.

They made Joe Dempsie/Gendry a regular in season 3, and he's apparently disappeared (...for now). By all accounts, we aren't going to see him this season.

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The Walking Dead had 13 episodes of the main characters doing fuck-all at a farm, and then one and a half seasons of them doing slightly more at a prison, and a lot of viewers were very bored and frustrated at this, yet the show is still insanely popular, and shows no signs of decreasing in that popularity.

They're not comparable though, because while they do stall for ages, standing and talking, they have tons of zombie kills in between so there's lots of action. The plot doesn't advance much, but if you love zombies and gore you're satisfied, so they're very different shows.

They made Joe Dempsie/Gendry a regular in season 3, and he's apparently disappeared (...for now). By all accounts, we aren't going to see him this season.

What accounts? We don't know. Chances are he'll be be around this season, just not as much as season 3.

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What accounts? We don't know. Chances are he'll be be around this season, just not as much as season 3.

Being around doing what though? I don't exactly see him seeking out the Brotherhood to join back up with them now, seeing as how they sold him like a slave on auction. The only plausible scenario with him in it is if he joins up with Brienne and Podrick on the road, but I don't see what this would achieve, apart from sort-of-but-not-really filling in Ser Hyle Hunt's role from the book.

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Among my friends , who watch the show, almost all are non readers, and they love it.

I have a few who are real TV aficionados, who view the show as being 'original' and not derived from another source.

They are mainly critical of 'time scaling' , that is so much narrative and characters crammed into 10 hours per season.

Other wise they like the show.

As a reader I sort of feel the same , but I keep the prose version of ASoIaF and the visual narrative of GOT separate in my mind, so to speak.

So far I have only felt let down the Dany narrative in season 2, which I feel defeated D and D , due to lack of interest on their part or difficulty in translation.

For the record, and I am repeating myself, I knew something had to be done about condensing Harrenhal in season 2, and I loved the substitution of the Tywin-Arya tête-à-tête, when I figured out Weasel Soup had to go.

So I liked both the book version and show version of Arya's stay at Harrenhal.

Interesting

As a book reader I felt season 2 suffered most from this feeling of compression and flitting from place to place. Season 3, which I felt was a stronger season overall, seemed to let each character develop more and gave scenes "time to breathe". If we are comparing GOT with other great TV shows, which we should be by now, I think the best way to improve it even further is to focus more on key characters and their development. From a books perspective AFFC/DWD is where the universe expands even further, where I would say that the TV show needs to head in the other direction. It is interesting to see what future seasons will bring.

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Being around doing what though? I don't exactly see him seeking out the Brotherhood to join back up with them now, seeing as how they sold him like a slave on auction. The only plausible scenario with him in it is if he joins up with Brienne and Podrick on the road, but I don't see what this would achieve, apart from sort-of-but-not-really filling in Ser Hyle Hunt's role from the book.

No idea what, but I remember JD saying they would come up with some extra material for him going forward, so unless they've changed their minds I guess it still stands. He might be Brienne and Pod's other travelling companion, after all he knows where Arya was and where he has seen her last, and it's with the bwb soooo... But who knows.

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The main reason to assume that Gendry won't be appearing is because he hasn't appeared on set anywhere to our knowledge, and we've seen production stills of Brienne on the road with Pod (which is pretty much the only plot where Gendry makes any sense.). And he certainly won't be a regular this season. Comparing that to Varys in season 5 and things seem fairly reasonable. Varys will presumably be in the first couple of episodes taking Tyrion to Pentos, and then will turn up in the finale to kill Kevan and/or Pycelle.


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The main reason to assume that Gendry won't be appearing is because he hasn't appeared on set anywhere to our knowledge, and we've seen production stills of Brienne on the road with Pod (which is pretty much the only plot where Gendry makes any sense.). And he certainly won't be a regular this season. Comparing that to Varys in season 5 and things seem fairly reasonable. Varys will presumably be in the first couple of episodes taking Tyrion to Pentos, and then will turn up in the finale to kill Kevan and/or Pycelle.

Yes, but if we go by what didn't appear on set to our knowledge we also have to assume MF is not going to be LSH this season. We don't know, because we don't know what they might keep under wraps.

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