Season 4 Impressions

[King Tommen]

Re: Gendry.

He could certainly sit out this season and at this point, that would be the odds on guess but knowing how far along Brienne's story is heading this season, I really have no idea how they would integrate him back into the story in S5 without completely changing his role.

The one reason I could see them going to lengths around hiding his involvement in S4 is if his appearance is only for a scene or two in the finale and it leads us directly to LS, which is clearly a development they want to keep under wraps as much as possible. If this were the case, the filming could be very low key (as it's not like he'd be in a scene with tons of extras and lots of production. That would be more of a Khal Drogo, Maester Aemon, Pyp or Balon appearance which was not foreshadowed at all until the episode aired.

Otherwise, he's on the bench and I have no idea what the plan would be for him in future seasons.

[Cas Stark]

Well Theon was slightly more difficult because he was completely isolated, whereas Jaime was with Robb. When Jaime was offscreen, Robb and Cat's story could just continue on as normal. So having just two or three Theon scenes would have rather jarring. I think the amount of screen time Theon got was fine, it's just what they did with it was awful. They could have had Ramsay hunting Bran and Rickon, they could have introduced Jeyne as a fellow prisoner of Ramsay's for example. But instead we just got several isolated torture scenes.

I'm getting rather worried that they might just cut out Val, Dalla and the baby switch entirely and just switch out Gilly's angst with general postpartum depression. Though what I'm hoping will happen is that Val will be introduced as Mance's wife at the beginning of S5, have the baby and then the baby-swap happens in the first few episodes with Sam leaving for Oldtown in like episode 3.

They will definitely cut Val unless she does something spectacular in Books 6 and 7, otherwise, why do they need a wildling princess hanging around? It sort of seems like if they were going to have Mance have a wife the time to have done it would have been in the first intro, at least have him reference having a wife to lay some groundwork.

I thought Theon got way too much screen time last season, too many segments, segments were too long. Same for Shae, same for Varys and LF.

I would assume Gendry will pop up somewhere this season.

It would be strange if there was no Osha this entire season, she's a high profile actress.

I'm stil not sure they're not cutting Lady Stoneheart completely, but I guess we will see.

[protar]

They will definitely cut Val unless she does something spectacular in Books 6 and 7, otherwise, why do they need a wildling princess hanging around? It sort of seems like if they were going to have Mance have a wife the time to have done it would have been in the first intro, at least have him reference having a wife to lay some groundwork.

I think it's quite clear that Val has some important role to play. She does not that much in ADWD and yet has a lot of screen time, which suggests she's being set up for a major role. I think the lack of previous mentions is just D+D not wanting to overload the audience with loads of characters. And given that we only saw three episodes of Mance in S3, it's hardly unreasonable that his wife has gone unmentioned. Plenty of time for that this season.

I thought Theon got way too much screen time last season, too many segments, segments were too long. Same for Shae, same for Varys and LF.

Agreed. Sort of. If Theon had anything substantial to do I wouldn't have minded the amount of screen time he got. Same with Shae if they'd included the Symon subplot. LF definitely should have left earlier, in like episode 4 or 5.

I would assume Gendry will pop up somewhere this season.

Maybe just maybe he acts as the cavalry when Brienne is attacked by Rorge and Biter.

It would be strange if there was no Osha this entire season, she's a high profile actress.

No word on her or Rickon either and it wouldn't surprise me to see them skip a season.

I'm stil not sure they're not cutting Lady Stoneheart completely, but I guess we will see.

Definitely not, else why introduce Beric and his resurrections?

[six]

They will definitely cut Val unless she does something spectacular in Books 6 and 7, otherwise, why do they need a wildling princess hanging around? It sort of seems like if they were going to have Mance have a wife the time to have done it would have been in the first intro, at least have him reference having a wife to lay some groundwork.

Yeaaah, they don't really, unless they want to do Stannis offering Winterfell and a wife to Jon, and the way Stannis tries to negotiate with the wildlings while completely misunderstanding them. They need a Dalla or a replacement of sorts though, otherwise what are they going to do with that whole baby plot? Unless they leave it out...

I'm stil not sure they're not cutting Lady Stoneheart completely, but I guess we will see.

I'm convinced she'll be there. I don't think they'd bother with Brienne and Pod's quest if it weren't to get to that point. It actually surprises me to see people thinking she won't be there, also because it's a shocking moment and b&w love them.

I would assume Gendry will pop up somewhere this season.

Maybe just maybe he acts as the cavalry when Brienne is attacked by Rorge and Biter.

I think that might happen, but because Davos told him to go to KL and that's a specific location, I kind of assumed that's where he will go go... It's a weird one.

[boojam]

I thought Theon got way too much screen time last season, too many segments, segments were too long. Same for Shae, same for Varys and LF.

I would assume Gendry will pop up somewhere this season.

It would be strange if there was no Osha this entire season, she's a high profile actress.

If one looks about the net in the last month there have been interviews with Joe Dempsie and Natalia Tena.

The Dempsie interview is vague so don't know what about him.

The Tena interview actually mentions season 4, now Natalia says not definitive but makes a mysterious comment about this season, no she does not explicitly say she is in it.

They both could make 'cameo' appearances ... that would be the way I could characterize four actors last season, three of whom I was not expecting to see.

O can't agree about Varys , I just can't get enough of Conleth Hill, he is great no matter what he does.

Tom Wlaschiha will, I am almost dead sure, not appear this year.

I still have this hunch that rather than hire a new actor, Wlaschiha will turn up as the Kindly Man.

The show is such a hit that I think any actor not seen for a while will jump to get back on.

I know both Eugene Simon and Miltos Yerolemou really want back.

Even Sean Bean would like back , in some invented way!

Only person I can think of who does not, or apparently does not want back is Clive Mantle (Greatjon Umber), still a mystery about him.

I guess we all know Conan Stevens story , or at least some of it, would have come back , maybe after the series is over we will get 'the rest of the story'.

Not sad Ed Skrein is gone, but would like someday to hear what he has to say.

[Lord Varys]

If Cat would not come back, it would not have made any sense introducing the Brotherhood in the first place. Beric is no important character. Who cares that he has been brought back six times? This is obviously all build-up to Catelyn's resurrection, or else it was a huge waste of screen time.

As to season 5:

The conclusion of season 4 will end many story lines the show has relied up until this point. And new stuff will begin. People will be intrigued what happens in the North with Stannis, Jon, and the Boltons. They will be looking forward to Tyrion's journey to Daenerys, and they will be more than interested how Cersei and Margaery will fight over Tommen, now that Tywin is dead.

It will be obvious by the end of season 4 that Dany won't fight Joffrey, Tywin, or a united Lannister-Tyrell front.

I don't think people will getting bored with the Dany story in season 5, especially not when many new characters - Martells, Greyjoys, Aegon and Connington - enter the scene.

[Rashtibram]

I could see Gendry meeting Brienne in an inn and getting similarly captured by the BWB. A short scene in the finale is all that's needed, and we had no indication that Pyp, Aemon, or Balon would be reappearing in season 3.

[Cas Stark]

If one looks about the net in the last month there have been interviews with Joe Dempsie and Natalia Tena.

The Dempsie interview is vague so don't know what about him.

The Tena interview actually mentions season 4, now Natalia says not definitive but makes a mysterious comment about this season, no she does not explicitly say she is in it.

They both could make 'cameo' appearances ... that would be the way I could characterize four actors last season, three of whom I was not expecting to see.

O can't agree about Varys , I just can't get enough of Conleth Hill, he is great no matter what he does.

Tom Wlaschiha will, I am almost dead sure, not appear this year.

I still have this hunch that rather than hire a new actor, Wlaschiha will turn up as the Kindly Man.

The show is such a hit that I think any actor not seen for a while will jump to get back on.

I know both Eugene Simon and Miltos Yerolemou really want back.

Even Sean Bean would like back , in some invented way!

Only person I can think of who does not, or apparently does not want back is Clive Mantle (Greatjon Umber), still a mystery about him.

I guess we all know Conan Stevens story , or at least some of it, would have come back , maybe after the series is over we will get 'the rest of the story'.

Not sad Ed Skrein is gone, but would like someday to hear what he has to say.

I hate recasting. Skrein wasn't that bad. I'd like to know what happened there.

I love Varys, so it isn't the idea of "too much Varys" per se, but of using Varys in what I would say is non productive ways...Varys and LF having basically the same conversation over and over again. Okay we get it. Same with Tyrion and Shae, they have them play a version of the same scene again and again. That would be fine if we had a more narrow story and not a gazillion other storylines and characters who could have used that screen time.

I LOVED Wlaschicha, but he can only really come back as the KM, if he is the same guy in the books--which I don't think is possible-- that would otherwise be a huge, huge departure, even for D&D. Every time I watch one of those segments I wish they had given him more screen time, LOL. This is definitely a case where the TV version was an enhancement over the book version.

Losing the Greatjon was a big hit for Robb's storyline, but what's done is done.

[Annara Snow]

Yeaaah, they don't really, unless they want to do Stannis offering Winterfell and a wife to Jon, and the way Stannis tries to negotiate with the wildlings while completely misunderstanding them. They need a Dalla or a replacement of sorts though, otherwise what are they going to do with that whole baby plot? Unless they leave it out...

Stannis doesn't have to offer Jon a wife at all, just legitimization and Winterfell. Which I think is a much more tempting offer in the first place, since it doesn't come with getting married to someone you barely know and who may not want to marry you (and knowing wildling women, Stannis' offer made even less sense), shortly after your lover has died. I never thought Jon was tempted by Val - he was tempted by the offer to be legitimized into a Stark and a lord of Winterfell. If Jon had been legimitized and given Winterfell, he would have had, no doubt, offers of marriage to highborn northern girls.

Unless Val has some big role to play in the future books, I wouldn't mind seeing her cut completely. I don't see her a real love interest for Jon. They respect each other, but the ideas about them as a romantic couple all come from other people who would put them together or think that there's something there. Jon thinks she's beautiful, but I don't see any real attraction there - he feels more attraction to Mel than he does to Val. And Val as "New and Improved Ygritte - Less Personality, More Conventional Beauty" would be a lame concept.

[Lord Varys]

This last conversation between Varys and Littlefinger was really contrived, and made no sense whatsoever in-universe, since they were just hanging around the Iron Throne for no purpose. Before that, they were waiting in the throne room for king and council, but in season 3 the Small Council met in the Tower of the Hand, not the small council chamber next to the throne room.

As to additional Varys scenes: I don't want any after season 4 ends - if they want to be subtle, they could hide Conleth among the sparrows when the High Septon makes a speech, but he should certainly have no lines.

They could have brought back Illyrio during season 3, though. Another meeting with him and Varys, discussion Barristan Selmy's voyage to Slaver's Bay, the birth Dany's dragons, and other things. That would have reminded the audience that Varys is in fact in league with the guy who married Dany to Drogo in the pilot.

[PhoenixFlame]

Jaqen was the Ensemble Dark Horse of Season 2. I'm really, really hoping he's put in as the Kindly Man. He can still do his Oldtown stuff; there must be lots of ships going between Oldtown and Braavos.

Stannis doesn't have to offer Jon a wife at all, just legitimization and Winterfell. Which I think is a much more tempting offer in the first place, since it doesn't come with getting married to someone you barely know and who may not want to marry you (and knowing wildling women, Stannis' offer made even less sense), shortly after your lover has died. I never thought Jon was tempted by Val - he was tempted by the offer to be legitimized into a Stark and a lord of Winterfell. If Jon had been legimitized and given Winterfell, he would have had, no doubt, offers of marriage to highborn northern girls.

Unless Val has some big role to play in the future books, I wouldn't mind seeing her cut completely. I don't see her a real love interest for Jon. They respect each other, but the ideas about them as a romantic couple all come from other people who would put them together or think that there's something there. Jon thinks she's beautiful, but I don't see any real attraction there - he feels more attraction to Mel than he does to Val. And Val as "New and Improved Ygritte - Less Personality, More Conventional Beauty" would be a lame concept.

Agreed; I'd think it implied if he was given Winterfell he'd be involved with the Wildling resettling anyway. In ADWD it came off to me as a mix of respect plus "checking you out 'cause there's a shortage of nice bums up here," more than UST. The Giantsbane returning to the Wall is an easy logistical fix.

[protar]

Jaqen was the Ensemble Dark Horse of Season 2. I'm really, really hoping he's put in as the Kindly Man. He can still do his Oldtown stuff; there must be lots of ships going between Oldtown and Braavos.

I'm predicting Sam and Jaqen will get the same boat to Oldtown (arranged by Arya).

[Dreams and Prophecies]

If one looks about the net in the last month there have been interviews with Joe Dempsie and Natalia Tena.

The Dempsie interview is vague so don't know what about him.

The Tena interview actually mentions season 4, now Natalia says not definitive but makes a mysterious comment about this season, no she does not explicitly say she is in it.

They both could make 'cameo' appearances ... that would be the way I could characterize four actors last season, three of whom I was not expecting to see.

O can't agree about Varys , I just can't get enough of Conleth Hill, he is great no matter what he does.

Tom Wlaschiha will, I am almost dead sure, not appear this year.

I still have this hunch that rather than hire a new actor, Wlaschiha will turn up as the Kindly Man.

The show is such a hit that I think any actor not seen for a while will jump to get back on.

I know both Eugene Simon and Miltos Yerolemou really want back.

Even Sean Bean would like back , in some invented way!

Only person I can think of who does not, or apparently does not want back is Clive Mantle (Greatjon Umber), still a mystery about him.

I guess we all know Conan Stevens story , or at least some of it, would have come back , maybe after the series is over we will get 'the rest of the story'.

Not sad Ed Skrein is gone, but would like someday to hear what he has to say.

You know how Sean Bean could come back? Cersei's walk of shame.

[six]

Plus they had that scene with Brienne swearing loyalty to Cat and Cat saying she won't ask her of anything that may bring her dishonor.

Resurrection was mentioned a whole bunch of times last season.

There was this creepy dream Bran had with manic and increasingly pale Cat.

Sansa talks about her mother being thrown into river in today's episode.

And all of this, yes. I think it's pretty clear UnCat will be in the story, although I'm unsure as to when.

Stannis doesn't have to offer Jon a wife at all, just legitimization and Winterfell. Which I think is a much more tempting offer in the first place, since it doesn't come with getting married to someone you barely know and who may not want to marry you (and knowing wildling women, Stannis' offer made even less sense), shortly after your lover has died. I never thought Jon was tempted by Val - he was tempted by the offer to be legitimized into a Stark and a lord of Winterfell. If Jon had been legimitized and given Winterfell, he would have had, no doubt, offers of marriage to highborn northern girls.

Unless Val has some big role to play in the future books, I wouldn't mind seeing her cut completely. I don't see her a real love interest for Jon. They respect each other, but the ideas about them as a romantic couple all come from other people who would put them together or think that there's something there. Jon thinks she's beautiful, but I don't see any real attraction there - he feels more attraction to Mel than he does to Val. And Val as "New and Improved Ygritte - Less Personality, More Conventional Beauty" would be a lame concept.

BIB: I totally agree, I'm glad to see someone else with the same opinion. I've never thought there was that much going on between Val and Jon, and although he does like her, I didn't feel he was about to fall in love with her either.

I didn't think Jon was particularly tempted by Val as Val, but he was tempted by the idea of having a wife, Winterfell and bringing up Gilly's boy and Mance's boy like he and Robb were brought up. So in terms of character development in the books it did matter that he was offered a wife, too. Also Stannis wanted to marry Jon and Val misguidedly thinking that would create some sort of alliance. I don't think Val is essential, although we can't know that for sure because the books are not finished yet, but she could be left out in theory.

[PhoenixFlame]

I didn't think Jon was particularly tempted by Val as Val, but he was tempted by the idea of having a wife, Winterfell and bringing up Gilly's boy and Mance's boy like he and Robb were brought up. So in terms of character development in the books it did matter that he was offered a wife, too. Also Stannis wanted to marry Jon and Val misguidedly thinking that would create some sort of alliance. I don't think Val is essential, although we can't know that for sure because the books are not finished yet, but she could be left out in theory.

And you made me have a rare Sad Feels moment for Jon. If they're bringing out Stannis' better qualities in the coming season, maybe they'll play up the similarities between them. Never feeling particularly "part" of the family, expected to be the loyal family member but given less warmth, etc.

[GeorgeIAF]

cant wait for the first episode, i'll not enter the forum from now on until i will see it because it makes the waiting much tougher :)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

To anyone interested, today the first episode will be aired via Cinemax as well for Latinoamerica.

[Cas Stark]

I have no idea where this comment belongs, but watching parts of the GOT marathon, it was nice to see Aiden Gillen's LF before he inexplicably threw in the crazy Batman rasp villain voice.

[Winnief]

Yeaaah, they don't really, unless they want to do Stannis offering Winterfell and a wife to Jon, and the way Stannis tries to negotiate with the wildlings while completely misunderstanding them. They need a Dalla or a replacement of sorts though, otherwise what are they going to do with that whole baby plot? Unless they leave it out...

I think they are going to leave out the whole baby storyline, and probably Sam's trip to Oldtown as well. He'll find the research materials he needs regarding the Others in the NW library or the crypts at Winterfell.

[protar]

I think they are going to leave out the whole baby storyline, and probably Sam's trip to Oldtown as well. He'll find the research materials he needs regarding the Others in the NW library or the crypts at Winterfell.

That assumes that the only thing Sam will do in Oldtown is find out stuff about the Others. Which is pretty obviously not the case given the Maester conspiracy and the Ironborn invasion.

It remains to be seen how important the baby switch will be, though I could potentially see it being cut especially if Val/Dalla is. It would be an awful shame though, and another large departure from the books.