How would you rate episode 401?

[Valar Morghulis Not Today]

I gave it a great solid 8. Love having the show back, and thought the pacing was a lot better than other openings - glad they've learned that we don't need to check in with everyone.

Particular liked:

• The melting down of Ice hit me straight off.
  
• The look on Tyrion's face when he was told it was Oberyn was attending the wedding.
  
• Oberyn's whole involvement, glad that they mentioned Rhaegar.
  
• Joff's whole scene, Jack Gleeson is incredible at playing him. Loved the mention of The Sword of the Morning and Dunk (though in the wrong order!)
  
• Janos Slynt scoffing at the mention of giants, followed by an oh shit moment of realisation. (As well as Maester Aemon's ability to hear the truth).
  
• Basically everything with The Hound/Arya and Polliver(/Raff). "What the f***s a Lommy?", the Hound having to eat all of the chickens, "Can you walk boy", "I'll have to carry you", "Fine little blade, I think I'll pick my teeth with it". (Would have liked questions about the brotherhood, gold in the village etc but what they did do was awesome).
  
• God those dragons are getting big.
  
• A blue rose!!!
  

Wasn't overly keen on:

• Jon & Sam's interaction.
  
• Thenns, not how I'd imagined them.
  
• Shae & Tyrion's scene
  
• The way they have changed the timing of something which has led to a little unnecessary awkwardness - but can see why they wanted it.
  
• Not keen on new Dhario, and don't think Dany's character is developing quite enough, would like more response from her - though I get that her scenes this week were to introduce new Dhario.
  

Looking forward to next week.

[BlackTalon]

Which happened over a year ago and she has no real practice with. You don't know this, but swords are heavy, and little Arya has not had any practice with real blades.

Would you care to explain why you think "I don't know this"??? You seriously believe you're the only person in the world who has ever held a sword...?

Look at the books again and you will find that the practice swords actually had lead cores to make them heavier. A girl her age would have no problems handling a real sword, especially not with a two handed grip like Arya is doing.

[Erkan12]

Lol. Jon saying ''Robb was better fighter than me...'' Jon fans must be angry right now...

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Lol. Jon saying ''Robb was better fighter than me...'' Jon fans must be angry right now...

Hey now, it's always polite to speak kindly of the dead. Especially if it's a white lie. :laugh:

Edited April 8, 2014 by TheWhiteRabbit

[BlackTalon]

It's half right. IIRC Jon admitted Robb was better with the lance on horseback, but Jon was better with the sword, which of course is more important in the Night's Watch.

[Greywolf2375]

I'm floating between a 7-8.

The ep started well, but as others have said I would have liked to have seen the magic/difficulty in melting down Ice. It is a small thing, but would I think would have been impactful from the standpoint that yes, the Lannisters won that war but it isn't as over as they want it to be.

It ended well - The Hound was great, Arya was good but went a little too dark a little too quickly for me.

The Joffrey/Jaime/White book scene was great - just want to reach into the TV and beat Joffrey with a stick.

Some of the downsides are the shift in Jaime/Brienne being in town this early, still missing out on Loras not in the KG and the interaction with Brienne. I thought bringing Dontos back like this was very awkward. While I liked the introduction to Oberyn, it was a little too much with him reacting like that to Rains. Not that it gets sung a lot in Dorne, but does really react like that each time someone brings up the Lannisters or sings the song?

Overall the episode probably is the strongest opener for me since s1ep1.

[Miss Carnahan]

4/10

Hated Oberyn's introduction (there's more about the character than his bisexuality), they made Arya even weirder (and sadistic) and I still don't like the fact that they brought Jaime and Brienne to KL earlier than in the book. + Emilia's acting skills were not to be found again, I assume? (and when will they finally do some about those eyebrows??)

On a sidenote, Jack was yet again perfect as Joffrey! He never fails to amuse me.

[Lies And Perfidy]

Yeah I'm on the 8 bandwagon. Shameless self-promotion alert: here's my recap & analysis on Dorkadia Dot Com.

[iknownothingjonsnow]

Hated Oberyn's introduction (there's more about the character than his bisexuality)

Not to jump all over you, but Oberyn's introduction lasted for 7+ minutes and only about 50 seconds of it was spent on his bisexuality. Is that really the only think you took away from it?

Yeah I'm on the 8 bandwagon. Shameless self-promotion alert: here's my recap & analysis on Dorkadia Dot Com.

This is a pretty great read. It looks like you've done some recaps from earlier seasons as well - I'll look forward to going back and checking those out when I've got the time.

[Bonifer Tasty]

The lack of subtlety, same as with Loras and Renly, was what peeved me.

Well, perhaps we could wish for more subtlety from the TV show when it comes to sex and sexuality, but if the heterosexual lust is going to be dealt with so heavy-handedly (unsubtly!) then it only seems right to have bisexual or homosexual lusts of all shades dealt with in a similar heavy-handed way.

Maybe the peeving lack of subtlety you mention for male-male attraction is occasioned by how elided these relationships are in the books? Back in 1996, when Loras/Renly was almost entirely "between the lines", Martin had a reserve for the subject that was typical for that era. But Martin, to his credit, has evolved slightly. Oberyn by 2000 was actively speaking of his attraction (though we were not given a sex scene), and finally, by 2011, Jon Connington could ponder his longing for Rhaegar from a Point of View voice. Still, Martin doesn't like to write male-male homosexual sex scenes as much as he seems to enjoy female-female ones, or male-female ones - not really very surprising that this should be so. Seems to me, as the story goes on, and when appropriate for specific characters, Martin should be willing to be LESS subtle with male-male sex - if only to match the spirit of "unflinching realism" that otherwise pervades his narrative.

My two cents.

[The Killer Snark]

Edmund the Just - My own personal belief is that, regarding our beloved khaleesi Dany Stormborn, the creators are keeping her eyebrows big on purpose, because the feral nature of her dragons has been brought in early, and if they now start to fly away and do their own thing frying cows and stuff, she can always call them back by using some furry eyebrow semaphore. Perhaps her pets will think they are baby dragons dancing with one another from their lofty distance, and this will call them back to her until it's time they went fully dangerous. Perhaps they intend for us to call Dany 'Mother of Eyebrows' in order to add to Martin's list of her names.

Edited April 8, 2014 by The Killer Snark

[clairep12]

I really enjoyed this episode, I gave it an 8/10. I loved arya and the hound together, i especially enjoyed how she ended up with her own horse at the end of the episode after the hound telling her she couldnt have one at the start. I am definitely intrigued to see what they do with the rest of the season.

http://connectv.com/vs/17549/morality-lessons-with-the-hound/

[johnnysd]

Does any1 feel like what Oberyn said about Rhaegar, the name drop of Ser Arthur Dayne and the blue rose are hints for R+L = J?

It is rumored that Sean Bean makes an appearance, maybe when Bran touches a tree. With them mentioning Arthur Dayne, mentioning Lyanna from Oberyn, and the blue rose, I think maybe we get Tower of Joy this year,

[johnnysd]

Would you care to explain why you think "I don't know this"??? You seriously believe you're the only person in the world who has ever held a sword...?

Look at the books again and you will find that the practice swords actually had lead cores to make them heavier. A girl her age would have no problems handling a real sword, especially not with a two handed grip like Arya is doing.

To buffer your point, REAL broadswords were NOT heavy. Replicas you put on your mantle are

[jarl the climber]

To buffer your point, REAL broadswords were NOT heavy. Replicas you put on your mantle are

And to further your point real, broadswords are really sharp, meant to kill people, and replicas are not.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I didn't know, but rotten tomatoes is rating game of thrones episodes. EP1 is currently at 96%!

[Lord_Baelish]

I gave it a 9/10 rating. I don't like the new Daario, and Dany got on my nerves, but I loved everything else about the episode. Jon facing down Slynt, Arya and the Hound against the world, Oberyn's introduction - I felt all of it was really well done. The writing has for the most part been impressive and I really hope that continues for the rest of the season.

[Kenyatta]

I gave it a 7. I'm sorry but the welcoming of the Dornish to Kings Landing was lacking. The Dornish should have come in with all the pomp and circumstance that the book says the do, minus Doran of course. Oberyn is lacking. I feel like I could kick this Red Viper's ass on a good day...not impressed, and the feeling I got from the books was that Oberyn Martell was impressive to look at.

Loved the fact that we're going to see the Sir Dontos - Sansa story line. I was beginning to think they were going to cut it out when we got Littlefinger - Sansa last season.

I am officially Team Hound. He may be a despicable creature, but so help me God I do love him so. His lines this episode are quote worthy for many years to come.

For those Unsullied I think seeing the scene with Arya v. Pulliver gives them hope that revenge will be served. Arya is a straight up bad ass. And I look forward to the upcoming scenes with her and the Hound. He obviously has some respect for her because he let her have a horse...a white one at that, and he let her keep Needle.

I'm done with Shae. She was annoying in the books, and even more annoying on the small screen. I see where they are going with her being jealous and her finally calling Tyrion her "Lion".

Good to see Janos Slynt again. He's been gone for awhile so I was afraid they might cast someone different in the role. Good times are ahead indeed.

The Thenns were overplayed. I envisioned the Magnor of Thenn being like Tormund Giantsbane...only bigger and dumber. These guys are like Hellraiser.....if Hellraiser had a nightmare and they were in it. I guess the wedding is out.

All in all....not great. But not awful.

[Normannen]

Well, perhaps we could wish for more subtlety from the TV show when it comes to sex and sexuality, but if the heterosexual lust is going to be dealt with so heavy-handedly (unsubtly!) then it only seems right to have bisexual or homosexual lusts of all shades dealt with in a similar heavy-handed way.

Maybe the peeving lack of subtlety you mention for male-male attraction is occasioned by how elided these relationships are in the books? Back in 1996, when Loras/Renly was almost entirely "between the lines", Martin had a reserve for the subject that was typical for that era. But Martin, to his credit, has evolved slightly. Oberyn by 2000 was actively speaking of his attraction (though we were not given a sex scene), and finally, by 2011, Jon Connington could ponder his longing for Rhaegar from a Point of View voice. Still, Martin doesn't like to write male-male homosexual sex scenes as much as he seems to enjoy female-female ones, or male-female ones - not really very surprising that this should be so. Seems to me, as the story goes on, and when appropriate for specific characters, Martin should be willing to be LESS subtle with male-male sex - if only to match the spirit of "unflinching realism" that otherwise pervades his narrative.

My two cents.

The scenes themselves are not the issue.

In the books the rumours of Renly is done by whispers. I wasn't even sure it was true until Martin himself confirmed it. I might not be the most attentive reader, but even still. That's quite a leap to where he almost openly flaunts his desires.

Taking Jon Connington's admiration for Rhaegar for anything more than that, admiration, is quite a leap as well, and the first time I've heard of this mentioned.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Normannen

[The Killer Snark]

Martin himself admitted JonCon is gay, and he said one of his new POVs would be a gay character before the publication of ADwD. The clues are not that obvious, but you can spot them. At one point the secret passage to the brothel is mentioned as rumoured to be built in order to cover the sexual predilections of the Hand before Eddard. JonCon admires Rhaegar in the way that a young girl would, remembering his physical gracefulness and the way the wind moved through his flowing locks of hair.