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Ran

How would you rate episode 401?

How would you rate episode 401?  

704 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      3
    • 2
      1
    • 3
      3
    • 4
      10
    • 5
      12
    • 6
      27
    • 7
      104
    • 8
      240
    • 9
      203
    • 10
      101


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Well, perhaps we could wish for more subtlety from the TV show when it comes to sex and sexuality, but if the heterosexual lust is going to be dealt with so heavy-handedly (unsubtly!) then it only seems right to have bisexual or homosexual lusts of all shades dealt with in a similar heavy-handed way.

Maybe the peeving lack of subtlety you mention for male-male attraction is occasioned by how elided these relationships are in the books? Back in 1996, when Loras/Renly was almost entirely "between the lines", Martin had a reserve for the subject that was typical for that era. But Martin, to his credit, has evolved slightly. Oberyn by 2000 was actively speaking of his attraction (though we were not given a sex scene), and finally, by 2011, Jon Connington could ponder his longing for Rhaegar from a Point of View voice. Still, Martin doesn't like to write male-male homosexual sex scenes as much as he seems to enjoy female-female ones, or male-female ones - not really very surprising that this should be so. Seems to me, as the story goes on, and when appropriate for specific characters, Martin should be willing to be LESS subtle with male-male sex - if only to match the spirit of "unflinching realism" that otherwise pervades his narrative.

My two cents.

The scenes themselves are not the issue.

In the books the rumours of Renly is done by whispers. I wasn't even sure it was true until Martin himself confirmed it. I might not be the most attentive reader, but even still. That's quite a leap to where he almost openly flaunts his desires.

Taking Jon Connington's admiration for Rhaegar for anything more than that, admiration, is quite a leap as well, and the first time I've heard of this mentioned.

Edited by Normannen

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Martin himself admitted JonCon is gay, and he said one of his new POVs would be a gay character before the publication of ADwD. The clues are not that obvious, but you can spot them. At one point the secret passage to the brothel is mentioned as rumoured to be built in order to cover the sexual predilections of the Hand before Eddard. JonCon admires Rhaegar in the way that a young girl would, remembering his physical gracefulness and the way the wind moved through his flowing locks of hair.


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And to further your point real, broadswords are really sharp, meant to kill people, and replicas are not.

They are really sharp, but armor exists for a reason.

Swords are not as sharp as movies would have you believe, and they were not used to deflect other blades. That is the point of a shield. People block with blades in movies because the clanging sound is cool for the audience to hear. Swords would break if they were swung against each other like that all the time.

You can love the fight scene if you want. I don't. Broadswords are heavy for 10 year old girls and it does take muscle to push through leather and mail and steel (though leather is not real armor, it just looks cool in shows).

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Well, perhaps we could wish for more subtlety from the TV show when it comes to sex and sexuality, but if the heterosexual lust is going to be dealt with so heavy-handedly (unsubtly!) then it only seems right to have bisexual or homosexual lusts of all shades dealt with in a similar heavy-handed way.

Maybe the peeving lack of subtlety you mention for male-male attraction is occasioned by how elided these relationships are in the books? Back in 1996, when Loras/Renly was almost entirely "between the lines", Martin had a reserve for the subject that was typical for that era. But Martin, to his credit, has evolved slightly. Oberyn by 2000 was actively speaking of his attraction (though we were not given a sex scene), and finally, by 2011, Jon Connington could ponder his longing for Rhaegar from a Point of View voice. Still, Martin doesn't like to write male-male homosexual sex scenes as much as he seems to enjoy female-female ones, or male-female ones - not really very surprising that this should be so. Seems to me, as the story goes on, and when appropriate for specific characters, Martin should be willing to be LESS subtle with male-male sex - if only to match the spirit of "unflinching realism" that otherwise pervades his narrative.

My two cents.

well, to be fair, it's only implied in the books because neither Loras nor Renly are POV characters, therefore the only way for it to be confirmed would've been to have a POV stumble across one of their sexytimes, which would be just plain weird. I don't think it was Martin being shy really, you'd have to be blind not to see they were lovers.

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Did anyone else LOL hysterically when the Hound was chugging beer in the face of Polliver?



Rory McCann for President of the World!


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Where does this rumor come from?

FWIW maybe Bran in the tree...or that's him impn the tree face on promos

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Am I the only one so far that DOESN'T like new Daario? I see people saying they like him. I really don't so far. I know it's early, but he's not arrogant enough, and he's missing that edge, that cocky swagger, the smirk, the walk. I don't know. I just don't know.

Yeah, the new one doesn't seem douchey enough.

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Yeah, the new one doesn't seem douchey enough.

I gave the episode an 8..but yes that is quite the word for the new Daario...good looking guy but not douchey enough, the old Daario was perfect! :wub:

On the other hand I really liked the episode: already the beginning, the forging of the 2 swords from Ice, I liked the "cute" dragons :thumbsup: , the Brienne scenes with Jaime and Olenna, pitied poor Dontos, laughed about the statue/Joffrey scene. Best was the Arya/Polliver scene..what an actor Maisie is, when she is showing the pleasure she is taking in this revenge...mercy?..no mercy!

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You know, talking ie. exposition is a hell of a lot less interesting than showing.

What exactly would suffice for you to show fighting skill? I thought it was pretty slick how quickly he drew that dagger and incapacitated that Lannister clown.

Spot on

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I think the Thenns introduction seemed a bit clunky, and I thought that there should have been more subtlety in the Dornish plot as well. I can't see Book Oberyn standing in a back alley to bring up the subject of his dead sister, and the brothel scene was just one step down from them wearing big signs round their necks saying WE SWING BOTH WAYS.


They dont seem to give the audience any credit for being able to work things out for themselves.



The Mercy line was set up and delivered a Squillion times better in the newly released chapter. it makes me wonder if that was why GRRM released it. As if to say " look what they did with my line"


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I would of liked a walk and Talk where Tyrion talks to Bronn about the Red Vipers across the narrow seas adventures. I always thought he had the coolest back story. Learning poisons, fighting with the second sons, etc.


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6



The Excellent:



Arya and the Hound


Oberyn and Tyrion's Elia chat


Jon's sentencing hearing. Everyone was excellent all through that scene, especially Thorne.


The Thenn's presence/music/attitude. Loved the warg reference.


Ice reforging


Dragon's graphics


Ellaria Sand- Finally there is an epic beauty in an epic series! She is such a good actress and I hope they giver her some actual lines


Tormund + Ygritte scene




The Horrible:



Every sentence Dany uttered so stiffly. The sword contest was stupid. The flowers were too (I don't care about the symbolism)


Tyrion + Shae two scenes


"Robb was better than me at everything" blunder that was compounded with Sam saying to Jon, " Sometimes I hate you too".


"Did you let him touch you?" blunder from Jaime to Cersei. That was compounded by ," You took too long". So Cersei is giving Jaime hints that she sleeps around?


Lady Olenna necklace scene


Thenn's cannibalism


Weepy Sansa in one scene and then smiley Sansa in the next. The acting was good but it was from one extreme to the other.


Sexy!!! brothel scene with Oberyn was silly. The stabbing was silly.


Tyrion's greeting party scene was a bit lacking. I think it was quickly and cheaply done to segue into the sexy!!!! scene.


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This is my first time posting to the forum. I've been just hanging out for the last few months, so hello. I thought the premiere was great given how much material they had to cover.

I really liked the scene with Oberyn and Elleria. Yeah, it was way over the top but that's how those Dornish people roll.

I loved the humor in this Episode too. I chuckled through the entire show, especially during the scenes with Bronn.

I loved the Lannister scenes in this one...the conversations between Twin and Jaime and Jaime and Cersei were great and show that even though they are THE most powerful family in Westeros there are definite cracks in that foundation.

The scene between Margaery and Brianne was awkward and seemed out of place in this episode, but I'm sure the writers are setting up for something.

Lastly, what happens with the Hound and Arya at the end of the episode more than made up for any shortcomings this episode had. That was just the sweetest revenge scene... and so brutal. I gave this one an 8 out of 10.

Sundays can't get here fast enough!

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Easily the best premiere so far though.


Best bits


1. Tywin reforges Ice


2. Drogon almost eats Daenerys face!


3. Jaime gets new hand fitted


4. Tyrion rejected by Oberyn Martell


5. Arya and the Hound go psycho on everybody!



By the way everyone, anyone who likes Melisandre look at my picture!


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Easily the best premiere so far though.

Best bits

1. Tywin reforges Ice

2. Drogon almost eats Daenerys face!

3. Jaime gets new hand fitted

4. Tyrion rejected by Oberyn Martell

5. Arya and the Hound go psycho on everybody!

By the way everyone, anyone who likes Melisandre look at my picture!

'And what better way to question her than naked, with her legs well spread?' the dwarf whispered. 'That's how I like to question her too.'

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It think this episode was great, and like it more each time I view it. I love the Hound, Bronn continues to have great lines, and am glad to see the Dontos story line reintroduced. The dragons were fantastic! I don't think the new Dario is as good as the old. I can't see why Dany would be drawn to him, the old Dario I could see. The Thenns were scary and so unlike the book - I guess the wedding with Alyce is out of the HBO story. Too bad, I like that part of the book.



Great job once again, I am glued for the next nine weeks....and longer.


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There were some highs and lows. Even though I knew what was coming with the forging of oathkeeper and widows wail, seeing it still pissed me off and Tywin burning the scabbard in the flames just reinforced how much I hate him, Charles dance is perfect as Ty, and oberyn is so badass I loved him in the books but that seen with the lannister soldier singing reins was awesome, but the arya scene will good just doesn't hold a candle to the one in asos. Solid episode.

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