How would you rate episode 403?

[rmholt]

Rotten Tomatoes is giving each episode of GOT a rating this season.

Critics score for E3 a 95% .

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/tv_editorial/news/1929960/game_of_thrones_season_4_episode_3/?hub=15

Seems to be some divergence of opinion in this threat about that.

I know the AV Club had a nice critique of the Jaime - Cersei scene. Perhaps, like for me, one scene gone terribly awry was offset for some by the greatness of the rest.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

I gave this episode a four. I loved the scenes with Shireen, Tommen, and Jon. The rest was a bit of a fail for me, and too loose an interpretation for my taste.

Emilia Clarke's acting was pretty bad in episode 2, but she seemed to be better this time... she is so good at learning how to speak the languages, you can see she is putting a lot of effort into it, and it shows. I'm glad to see some authenticity in the shows at least. Trying to look on the bright side.

[Starry]

I gave it a 4. Liked the scenes with Daenarys and Tommen.

With the rest I was disappointed.

Jamie/Cersei scene was poorly handled in my opinion.

In the books the Lannisters didn’t believe in the existance of the dragons. In the show Tywin tries to get the Dornish on his side with telling Oberyn about Danaerys and the dragons. But why should the Dornish help to protect the Lannister claim to the Iron Throne against Dany. It would be logic if the Dornish would support Danaerys to throw down House Lannister. (Did they not have a spare room in the Red Keep. Oberyn seems to live at the brothel.)

I didn’t like the wildling attack on the village. The wildlings in the show come accross like monsters. Most of all the Thenns. I never understood them as cannibals in the books. In the show they feast on whole villages.

How could Jon admit cannibals behind the wall? They would eat all people at Castle Black and then the whole realm.

[Cyvasse Khal]

A 5 for me. I expected a fallout from a big event episode to be a bit of a come down, but there was a few extra bits that wasn't working for me either.

Negative

- Jaime/Cersei rape scene was terribly handled and not how it is supposed to or should have gone down. Discussed at length in another topic so don't need to get into it.

- The Sam/Gilly scenes were crap quite frankly.

- Stannis/Davos was not that riveting and unless you've read the books I think Davos realising to use the Iron Bank to help Stannis' cause would have gone over a lot of people's heads. The "not enough men to raid a pantry" line was great though (finally more of Stannis dry wit!), and Davos' general grumpyness when he first starts his reading lesson was funny. But not enough to save those scenes.

- Never thought I'd say this but too much Tywin talking this week. Great they brought Tommen straight into it, but that Tywin lesson about what makes a great king went for too long, especially considering he had another long (but more necessary) convo with Oberyn later.

- Dany. Please stop trying to make everything she does epic D&D, that catapulting the broken chains thing was lame.

Positive

- Hound/Arya. Knowing that not much happens with these two until Arya leaves for Braavos was a bit of a concern coming into this season. But once again just really funny stuff. The way Maisie delivered that line of 'you are, the biggest SHIT! in Westeros' was just amazing. Could watch these two all day.

- Wildings raid and warning to Night's watch. Brutal and just what we needed to realise they need to be taken seriously so we are invested in the upcoming battle at Castle Black.

- Tyrion/Pod. That was a sweet scene.

[Ran]

500 votes exactly, and it's at a 7.0 average, 7 median, 7.13 normalized average with the top and bottom 5% removed.

I've noticed that in general that there's a certain threshold that suggests first day poll results will predict whether the episode will fall or rise in average depending on where it ends up. Any episode that's in the 7.5 area after the first day is liable to have disappointed enough people that the ones who have issues will outweigh the ones who don't as things wear on, and so you can see (as now) a half a point drop... and I suspect it will drop a little lower still before the season's done.

And, by the way, this episode has been rated lower on the forum than any episode before it. Previous record holder was the the season 2 episode "The Night Lands", at 7.07 with 398 votes in. But note the effect I noted above: at 400 votes, _this_ episode was at 7.08. So had "The Night Lands" had as many respondents to the poll as this episode has now, I expect it would be at the 7.00 mark as well.

Quite interesting, really.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Ran

[Florina Laufeyson]

500 votes exactly, and it's at a 7.0 average, 7 median, 7.13 normalized average with the top and bottom 5% removed.

I've noticed that in general that there's a certain threshold that suggests first day poll results will predict whether the episode will fall or rise in average depending on where it ends up. Any episode that's in the 7.5 area after the first day is liable to have disappointed enough people that the ones who have issues will outweigh the ones who don't as things wear on, and so you can see (as now) a half a point drop... and I suspect it will drop a little lower still before the season's done.

And, by the way, this episode has been rated lower on the forum than any episode before it. Previous record holder was the the season 2 episode "The Night Lands", at 7.07 with 398 votes in. But note the effect I noted above: at 400 votes, _this_ episode was at 7.08. So had "The Night Lands" had as many respondents to the poll as this episode has now, I expect it would be at the 7.00 mark as well.

Quite interesting, really.

themoreyouknow.jpg

That is interesting. Strangest part is how ive had time to digest the episode, and yet i dont think i would change my vote. It stands at a 7. (yeah i was one of those)

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

500 votes exactly, and it's at a 7.0 average, 7 median, 7.13 normalized average with the top and bottom 5% removed.

I've noticed that in general that there's a certain threshold that suggests first day poll results will predict whether the episode will fall or rise in average depending on where it ends up. Any episode that's in the 7.5 area after the first day is liable to have disappointed enough people that the ones who have issues will outweigh the ones who don't as things wear on, and so you can see (as now) a half a point drop... and I suspect it will drop a little lower still before the season's done.

And, by the way, this episode has been rated lower on the forum than any episode before it. Previous record holder was the the season 2 episode "The Night Lands", at 7.07 with 398 votes in. But note the effect I noted above: at 400 votes, _this_ episode was at 7.08. So had "The Night Lands" had as many respondents to the poll as this episode has now, I expect it would be at the 7.00 mark as well.

Quite interesting, really.

A lot of late voters have had more than one watch and picked up on more details and potential inconsistencies. Perhaps this is a cause for the drop,

I have heard podcasts from Unsullied who have described it as the best non-Ep 9 episode yet. It also appears to the episode with highest level of non-canon content. This could be a reason why it has been marked lower by so many readers.

Disclosure: I gave it a 7 and voted before I rewatched the episode

Edited April 23, 2014 by Ser Desmond Wine's Bane

[Modesty Lannister]

500 votes exactly, and it's at a 7.0 average, 7 median, 7.13 normalized average with the top and bottom 5% removed.

I've noticed that in general that there's a certain threshold that suggests first day poll results will predict whether the episode will fall or rise in average depending on where it ends up. Any episode that's in the 7.5 area after the first day is liable to have disappointed enough people that the ones who have issues will outweigh the ones who don't as things wear on, and so you can see (as now) a half a point drop... and I suspect it will drop a little lower still before the season's done.

And, by the way, this episode has been rated lower on the forum than any episode before it. Previous record holder was the the season 2 episode "The Night Lands", at 7.07 with 398 votes in. But note the effect I noted above: at 400 votes, _this_ episode was at 7.08. So had "The Night Lands" had as many respondents to the poll as this episode has now, I expect it would be at the 7.00 mark as well.

Quite interesting, really.

Not really. What counts are the unsullied viewers, not ASOIAF obsessed readers like our mad lot here. People show a high level of conservatism and devotion to the cannon, but we see that D&D managed so far to tie back all the canonical knots they untied. However, I think Jaime/Cersei scene was the one to bring the overall rating down. And for a good reason, because if Jaime's "rape" is not explained, his whole redemption arc is in serious jeopardy. D&D risk being mobbed by Jaime fans. :-)

[oierem]

. And for a good reason, because if Jaime's "rape" is not explained, his whole redemption arc is in serious jeopardy. D&D risk being mobbed by Jaime fans. :-)

So, we all like to say this show doesn't have good and bad characters, that all of them are grey.... and yet, we expect to see a traditional "evil conflicted guys gets a redemption arc and becomes pure and perfect" story?

I'm tired of all the discussion on that scene (from such a modern angle), but I will say that I'm glad they haven't made Jaime a purely good character.

[MyLittleFinger]

500 votes exactly, and it's at a 7.0 average, 7 median, 7.13 normalized average with the top and bottom 5% removed.

I've noticed that in general that there's a certain threshold that suggests first day poll results will predict whether the episode will fall or rise in average depending on where it ends up. Any episode that's in the 7.5 area after the first day is liable to have disappointed enough people that the ones who have issues will outweigh the ones who don't as things wear on, and so you can see (as now) a half a point drop... and I suspect it will drop a little lower still before the season's done.

And, by the way, this episode has been rated lower on the forum than any episode before it. Previous record holder was the the season 2 episode "The Night Lands", at 7.07 with 398 votes in. But note the effect I noted above: at 400 votes, _this_ episode was at 7.08. So had "The Night Lands" had as many respondents to the poll as this episode has now, I expect it would be at the 7.00 mark as well.

Quite interesting, really.

That's pretty interesting. Personally I watched all three back to back again and I kind of even want to retract my 5 for a 4...the first two just...work better.

[Ran]

You can delete your vote and vote again, if you re-evaluate an episode. :)

[MyLittleFinger]

You can delete your vote and vote again, if you re-evaluate an episode. :)

You truly are the King in the Board!

[Modesty Lannister]

So, we all like to say this show doesn't have good and bad characters, that all of them are grey.... and yet, we expect to see a traditional "evil conflicted guys gets a redemption arc and becomes pure and perfect" story?

I'm tired of all the discussion on that scene (from such a modern angle), but I will say that I'm glad they haven't made Jaime a purely good character.

Well, I'm not saying this as a fan of Jaime. I say this, because the sept scene did damage his book arc. Hence, the reaction of the book connoisseurs. Jaime is not a purely good character in the books, but meeting Brienne and losing his hand changed him profoundly. All I said that, if the rape scene is not explained in the future episodes, Jaime in the show will turn into another Shae - quite a different character from the one in the books. Different, not necessarily better or worse.

[Queen of Whores]

You are absolutely entitled to be disappointed in the PW, or disagree with the way Littlefinger is being portrayed. But, I don't recal you giving the episode a 2, either.

But, you make my point for me. I watched one episode of "True Detectives" and vowed never to waste my time with another second. As a person who likes Woody Harrelson and loves (man-crush) Matthew McConaughey, I thought it was a big piece of dog-doo. While we may disagree, I am not going to go on any blogs for the show and paint with those same broad strokes because I have an axe to grind, or it did not meet my expectations. I don't like the show, I won't comment on their blog (if they even have one).

I like GoT, I have my own disappointments, and surprise likes, but I won't waste your time with scathing venom and rash generalizations. Or, even more amusingly, list ten things I hated and give the episode an 8.

May I ask what you hated so much about True Detective? I've seen a lot of "excellent" TV, as some would say, like The Wire, The Sopranos, Deadwood, etc, and I honestly thought the first four episodes* were some of the most flawless TV I've ever seen in my life, and normally I'm a very critical person when it comes to TV and films. Also, even if you didn't like the storyline or pacing, I find it hard to believe anyone that's watched both Game of Thrones and True Detective (especially the six minute long-take in episode 4) can say Game of Thrones is better directed. Cary Fukunaga (the director of all of True Detective's first season) is leagues better than any director on Game of Thrones, imho.

* The show steadily started losing steam and brilliance in episodes 5 and 6, and episodes 7 and 8 were pieces of shit, in my opinion, at least compared to the first half the season, but the first half is incredible beyond just about anything I've seen on TV.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Queen of Whores

[boojam]

Not really. What counts are the unsullied viewers, not ASOIAF obsessed readers like our mad lot here. People show a high level of conservatism and devotion to the cannon, but we see that D&D managed so far to tie back all the canonical knots they untied. However, I think Jaime/Cersei scene was the one to bring the overall rating down. And for a good reason, because if Jaime's "rape" is not explained, his whole redemption arc is in serious jeopardy. D&D risk being mobbed by Jaime fans. :-)

Ahh, very good, there is a Selection Bias in this forum.

As I mention sullied and unsullied critics-wise that Ran's ~ 7 calculation, becomes a 9.5!

We have a non-random sample of viewers here (plus some trolls).

As usual I have not seen much in-dept analysis from the voters here, people should read our esteemed board leaders analysis in the The Lion and the Rose Guide.

[Neumond]

I gave a 5 because it is still better than most tv-series but it really felt like a weak episode to me. (At least in comparison to other episodes of this show.) I have the feeling the show is now just jumping from one bloodbath (or rape-club-session) to another. I really miss some base-work on character development or story telling... But this is of course, just my opinion.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Neumond

[oierem]

Well, I'm not saying this as a fan of Jaime. I say this, because the sept scene did damage his book arc. Hence, the reaction of the book connoisseurs. Jaime is not a purely good character in the books, but meeting Brienne and losing his hand changed him profoundly. All I said that, if the rape scene is not explained in the future episodes, Jaime in the show will turn into another Shae - quite a different character from the one in the books. Different, not necessarily better or worse.

Hey, but once again, the issue seems to be "it's different from the books" rather than "they ruined the show-character!".

Meeting Brienne changes Jaime, and that's apparent in the show. Does that mean he becomes a purely good character who would never do anything bad? No. Thankfully, he's still a realistic conflicted and morally ambiguous character who's trying to figure out what's right and wrong.

I can't understand how "having sex with his sister in front of their son's corpse" doesn't damage his redepmtion arc in the books, but "forcing his sister to have sex with him in front of their son's corpse" is suddenly so much worse in the show.

We are talking about a very conflicted relationship with a lot of anger, hatred, spite and narcisism, not an ideal love story.

And this doesn't mean I hate Jaime. I don't like or love characters depending on how badass or how evil they are. I like characers because they are complex and interesting.

Edited April 23, 2014 by oierem

[toffeejay]

Fairly dull and average, nothing really happend but on the back of a big episode last week thats forgivable.

Haven't been this underwelmed since The Climb.

[The hairy bear]

And, by the way, this episode has been rated lower on the forum than any episode before it. Previous record holder was the the season 2 episode "The Night Lands", at 7.07 with 398 votes in. But note the effect I noted above: at 400 votes, _this_ episode was at 7.08. So had "The Night Lands" had as many respondents to the poll as this episode has now, I expect it would be at the 7.00 mark as well.

IMHO, the average ratings of episodes, specially when they belong to different seasons, are not comparable. I don't think much people really believes "Breaker of Chains" is the worst episode of the series. I'm convinced voters are not maintaing consistent ratings among seasons, as there is no any indication about how episodes should be evaluated: what's a 5? an average GoT episode? an average TV episode? an average episode of an HBO show? a weak episode that still gets a pass because its my favorite show in TV? an episode that met my expectations? ...

Myself, I'm surely evaluating episodes from those past two seasons much harsher than in the first ones. At the beginning, I was excited just with the great scenarios and casting. Now, I take those things for granted and my expectations are much higher.

Edited April 23, 2014 by The hairy bear

[Cyvasse Khal]

IMHO, the average ratings of episodes, specially when they belong to different seasons, are not comparable. I don't think much people really believes "Breaker of Chains" is the worst episode of the series. I'm convinced voters are not maintaing consistent ratings among seasons, as there is no any indication about how episodes should be evaluated: what's a 5? an average GoT episode? an average TV episode? an average episode of an HBO show? a weak episode that still gets a pass because its my favorite show in TV? an episode that met my expectations? ...

Myself, I'm surely evaluating episodes from those past two seasons much harsher than in the first ones. At the beginning, I was excited just with the great scenarios and casting. Now, I take those things for granted and my expectations are much higher.

I think that's a fair point. If everyone was rating each episode in comparison to how they would rate episodes of other tv shows then i'm sure each episode would be getting 9's and 10's. Expectations are obviously pretty high now, but we also have 3 seasons worth of episodes to now compare against, so I believe every rating these days is a fair rating. In season 1 every episode would probably have been given a higher score than it would now simply due to the excitement that this series is being made so well.