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How would you rate episode 403?

How would you rate episode 403?  

628 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      14
    • 2
      10
    • 3
      15
    • 4
      29
    • 5
      57
    • 6
      76
    • 7
      143
    • 8
      144
    • 9
      90
    • 10
      50


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Where did you get all this?

Sisterfucker he does sleep with his sister and has children with her, children he has neglected. A lot of that is because of fear of Robert I get that, and throne legitimacy I get that, but he isn't even a decent uncle.

Coward, having all your goons surround Ned Stark and kill off all his men isn't cowardly? Pushing a child out of a window isn't cowardly? Being part of the family that had to use deceit and false accusations to murder a king and his mother and their entire crew under the guise of guest right isn't cowardly?

Child killer - guess i should have said attempted, my bad.

Worst kings guard ever, how many kings have died with him as a member? 3 so far? Not a great record.

The point is why get bent out of shape when he rapes Cersei. The guy is a despicable human being to begin with. It's like Vic Mackey.

Edited by SerJeremiahLouistark

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Sisterfucker he does sleep with his sister and has children with her, children he has neglected. A lot of that is because of fear of Robert I get that, and throne legitimacy I get that, but he isn't even a decent uncle.

Coward, having all your goons surround Ned Stark and kill off all his men isn't cowardly? Pushing a child out of a window isn't cowardly? Being part of the family that had to use deceit and false accusations to murder a king and his mother and their entire crew under the guise of guest right isn't cowardly?

Child killer - guess i should have said attempted, my bad.

Worst kings guard ever, how many kings have died with him as a member? 3 so far? Not a great record.

The point is why get bent out of shape when he rapes Cersei. The guy is a despicable human being to begin with. It's like Vic Mackey.

Wow. You made up your mind about all of this regardless of what's happening in the book? Good for you.

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Here is GRR Martin's comment about this rape scene, sum up, all he says here is "I have nothing to do with this scene"



"This is off topic here. This is the section for comments about Junot Diaz and Anne Perry and the Cocteau's author program.


Since a lot of people have been emailing me about this, however, I will reply... but please, take any further discussion of the show to one of the myriad on-line forums devoted to that. I do not want long detailed dissections and debates about the TV series here on my blog.


As for your question... I think the "butterfly effect" that I have spoken of so often was at work here. In the novels, Jaime is not present at Joffrey's death, and indeed, Cersei has been fearful that he is dead himself, that she has lost both the son and the father/ lover/ brother. And then suddenly Jaime is there before her. Maimed and changed, but Jaime nonetheless. Though the time and place is wildly inappropriate and Cersei is fearful of discovery, she is as hungry for him as he is for her.


The whole dynamic is different in the show, where Jaime has been back for weeks at the least, maybe longer, and he and Cersei have been in each other's company on numerous occasions, often quarreling. The setting is the same, but neither character is in the same place as in the books, which may be why Dan & David played the sept out differently. But that's just my surmise; we never discussed this scene, to the best of my recollection.


Also, I was writing the scene from Jaime's POV, so the reader is inside his head, hearing his thoughts. On the TV show, the camera is necessarily external. You don't know what anyone is thinking or feeling, just what they are saying and doing.


If the show had retained some of Cersei's dialogue from the books, it might have left a somewhat different impression -- but that dialogue was very much shaped by the circumstances of the books, delivered by a woman who is seeing her lover again for the first time after a long while apart during which she feared he was dead. I am not sure it would have worked with the new timeline.


That's really all I can say on this issue. The scene was always intended to be disturbing... but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.


Now, if you please, I'd appreciate it if we could get back to Junot Diaz and Anne Perry and the subjects of the original post."


http://grrm.livejournal.com/367116.html?thread=19030284


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Here is GRR Martin's comment about this rape scene, sum up, all he says here is "I have nothing to do with this scene"

"This is off topic here. This is the section for comments about Junot Diaz and Anne Perry and the Cocteau's author program.

Since a lot of people have been emailing me about this, however, I will reply... but please, take any further discussion of the show to one of the myriad on-line forums devoted to that. I do not want long detailed dissections and debates about the TV series here on my blog.

As for your question... I think the "butterfly effect" that I have spoken of so often was at work here. In the novels, Jaime is not present at Joffrey's death, and indeed, Cersei has been fearful that he is dead himself, that she has lost both the son and the father/ lover/ brother. And then suddenly Jaime is there before her. Maimed and changed, but Jaime nonetheless. Though the time and place is wildly inappropriate and Cersei is fearful of discovery, she is as hungry for him as he is for her.

The whole dynamic is different in the show, where Jaime has been back for weeks at the least, maybe longer, and he and Cersei have been in each other's company on numerous occasions, often quarreling. The setting is the same, but neither character is in the same place as in the books, which may be why Dan & David played the sept out differently. But that's just my surmise; we never discussed this scene, to the best of my recollection.

Also, I was writing the scene from Jaime's POV, so the reader is inside his head, hearing his thoughts. On the TV show, the camera is necessarily external. You don't know what anyone is thinking or feeling, just what they are saying and doing.

If the show had retained some of Cersei's dialogue from the books, it might have left a somewhat different impression -- but that dialogue was very much shaped by the circumstances of the books, delivered by a woman who is seeing her lover again for the first time after a long while apart during which she feared he was dead. I am not sure it would have worked with the new timeline.

That's really all I can say on this issue. The scene was always intended to be disturbing... but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.

Now, if you please, I'd appreciate it if we could get back to Junot Diaz and Anne Perry and the subjects of the original post."

http://grrm.livejournal.com/367116.html?thread=19030284

Interesting, I haven't seen it in full. Thanks for posting this! :cheers:

People keep using the "she is as hungry for him as he is for her" part to argue the show scene wasn't a rape but GRRM is clearly establishing the two scenes being different.

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I give it an 8. The episode is well acted and well executed. The music score is of high quality, and so are the costumes and decors.



I reread the second part of SoS recently, and HBO sticks to the story mostly. Even the Cersei/Jaime scene is kinda like the book depicted. Minus the moon blood detail though.



The only thing is that GoT is going really fast, faster then I thought they would, and I think the series will overtake the books at some point. Although I like the tempo, I would like to finish the books first.

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Interesting, I haven't seen it in full. Thanks for posting this! :cheers:

People keep using the "she is as hungry for him as he is for her" part to argue the show scene wasn't a rape but GRRM is clearly establishing the two scenes being different.

The point is not whether the scenes are different. I think most of us agrees with this. Rather, the concern is whether Jaime will still be an interesting character in the show, at least for the non-readers. I can't tell yet. My friends clearly though it was rape, but I am not sure if they felt bad about it. They were more shocked by the fact that it happened next to Joffrey's coffin.

The same applies to every difference from the books. Often, people complain about the differences and not about their impact in the quality of the show. Or at least, people often measure the quality of the show in terms of its distance from the books. We can have a good show even if the story and characters are not strictly the same. The main events are there. As for the characters, I am more conservative about deviations, but changing the motives of a character, like they did with Stannis, does not ruin the character for me entirely, as long as ultimately he behaves in a similar fashion to the books.

Edited by Ravi Seaworth

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I give the episode a solid 7.




What I liked:


- Tywin/Tommen - I really like Tommen's character so far and I'm definitely glad that they recast him considering how young the last actor was. Tywin is great as per usual - he's one of those characters I try to dislike since I feel like I should, but actually really like anyway. ._.


- Hound/Arya - they always amuse me and I really like that the Hound is still there for now. c: One of the things I love about the Hound is how he sees things. It's not some bullshit act he tries to keep, and I really respect that. While the host was a nice one and I felt bad that the Hound stole from him (darn you Hound!), I still like how the Hound was able to rationalize his actions - and there was truth in what he said.


- Tywin/Oberyn - just...two awesome people being awesome together. I really like Oberyn so far.


- LF/Sansa - nice and creepy, and LF showing how he really is in front of Sansa.


- Sam/Gilly - I think they're adorable and not boring at all .


- Jon - surprisingly, I actually enjoyed the scene with Thorne. I usually don't like Jon in his scenes and I thought it was cool that Thorne actually asked for his opinion about the matter.


- Wildling Raid - Thennnnnnnns!


- Shireen - 'cause she's cute. ._.


- Tyrion/Pod - not so much Tyrion in this scene, but I'm a sucker for Pod. Made me a bit sad even.



What I disliked:


- other than Dany being able to speak her languages well, I disliked the whole Mereen scene (though I loved the look of the city itself). I don't like Dany as a character to begin with, and the whole thing seemed bland to me. Daario was less than cool and the champion fight was...too smooth, too fast - and totally not cool that he returned the piss. (also - catapults of shackles...why would they do that when it could have easily killed some of the slaves?)


- the rest of the Oberyn scene (totally lied about the no more hot scenes with Oberyn!). It's cool that he's very passionate and they recognize that, but it was just too much.


- the Hound's violation of his own code. Though his reasoning is fine imo, I don't like how they made him contradict himself. That seems out of character for me and gives me a few sads.


- Jaime/Cersei - well, it's not because it's poorly done or differs from the book (in both cases, it's rape that turns somewhat conensual) but that it was just creepy. Not the kind of creepy I like either.


- Stannis/Davos - well, it was just too fast for my liking. I barely even remembered the scenes, even the one with Shireen, until I read a comment regarding them. I really like the Stannis story and would like to see non-fleeting scenes with him and Davos.



Eugh, that's what I remember. I still have to rewatch the episode though.


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I enjoyed it I can't wait until the next episode.



I am disappointed that a as usual the women were shown fully naked but the men were only showed from behind.


Edited by TimEaston

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Yeah OK but the number of people on here who give a GoT episode, even the sub par ones (and there have been a few) automatic 8s, 9s and 10s is ridiculous. I thought the first episode was solid, the last two have been pretty weak. They've been a bit labored at times, especially the KL scenes. Episode 2 depiction of the PW was just flat and disapointing, I'd had it built up in my head as something majestic, opulent to the extreme, decadent and outrageous, instead we got a pleasant garden party with dwarves, just poor. This episode seemed to meander along with no real point. We had at the end of the last season, or so I thought, Davos setting up Stannis riding north to the wall, but no that's all been forgotten as he is slapped in the face with a plot device to involve the Iron Bank and the Golden Company...great. Then we have Littlefinger doing his best impersonation of a 1920s screen villain, at one point I thought he was going to twirl his waxed moustache I kid you not. Saving grace was Sandor and Tywins scenes, which involved two really good actors making the most of what they'd been given.

And really? The best thing on TV? Compared to the cinematic brilliance of True Detective, six minute tracking shots and all. Anything comparable in GoT? Howsabout the brilliant dialogue and stylistic flourish of Mad Men? GoT is not shit, it's OK and sometimes it's really good, but it's also over hyped and at times displays lazy writing and direction.

You are absolutely entitled to be disappointed in the PW, or disagree with the way Littlefinger is being portrayed. But, I don't recal you giving the episode a 2, either.

But, you make my point for me. I watched one episode of "True Detectives" and vowed never to waste my time with another second. As a person who likes Woody Harrelson and loves (man-crush) Matthew McConaughey, I thought it was a big piece of dog-doo. While we may disagree, I am not going to go on any blogs for the show and paint with those same broad strokes because I have an axe to grind, or it did not meet my expectations. I don't like the show, I won't comment on their blog (if they even have one).

I like GoT, I have my own disappointments, and surprise likes, but I won't waste your time with scathing venom and rash generalizations. Or, even more amusingly, list ten things I hated and give the episode an 8.

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- Wildling Raid - Thennnnnnnns!

You liked the one thing that I thought was the worst thing!

Inside the Episode have Dave and Dan spouting some nonsense about that sequence.

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Gave this one a ten. Best of the season imho and one of the best of the series to date.


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You liked the one thing that I thought was the worst thing!

Inside the Episode have Dave and Dan spouting some nonsense about that sequence.

Hmm, well I didn't really love the scene. Just liked it. Again, I still need to rewatch, but I thought the scene was well-done at the time, though a bit quick. o:

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Is this episode the one with the least canon content to date?



Tyrion capture, Sansa escape, Cersei/Jamie, events at Meereen were 'basically canon'



Everything else? Arya and the Hound, Sam + Gilly x 2, Night's Watch, Tywin/Tommen, Tywin/Oberyn, Team Dragonstone = not canon.


Edited by Ser Desmond Wine's Bane

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I thought this was the weakest episode of the series thus far. Too many stupid clumsy things. Dany stands directly behind Daario while a mounted man charges at him? Yeah so much for not risking the important people! Sure they wanted to have the two of them in the shot together and have him turn and do his little wink, but that was idiotic. This one didn't have that sense of being "well done" for me. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come.

The whole thing is off. When they film her standing behind Daario the attacker must be coming straight from Meereen. Look at how the Unsullied stands in the background. But when they film the champion and when he is died his charge came from the side. Weird...

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6. Nothing really happened.other than Samwell/Gilly and Arya/Sandor, I enjoyed the other story lines alot. especially Tyrion/Podrick scene. Also, quite excited for sansa, I hope she has a more interesting story from here on!!!


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So there is no problem at all! GRRM said himself he doesnt know if book Jaimie raped Cersei or not because it was a POV. He left that free to interpret. So the show didnt damage anything, he just showed Jaimie forcing himself on Cersei. Why do you call that damage? This character never meant to be good, he pushed a kid out of the window, killed a king, has babies with his sister.

I have often ended up in disputes here on this board with people over issues of what was going on, and I eventually realized that in the majority of cases (as with Sansa, or Tyrion, or Catelyn) the dispute was basically centered on my reading of the POV as biased (as written by Martin to provide an interpretation by the specific character) while the person who disagreed with me saw the narrative as pure reportage, to be relied upon. I'm not sure why some people can't appreciate the layered treatment of the POV structure. It is clear that Tyrion, as witty as he is, describes things in such a way as to make himself the victim (and yes, sometimes he really IS the victim!), and Catelyn's chapters are increasingly written as though by a person succumbing to depression, including her "stupidity" that people so often hate, she is increasingly detached from real events. Cersei's POV is riddled with alcoholic misperception. Sansa's with a shocking self-centeredness. Etc. It's one reason to love the books! And Martin is basically saying in the interview he gave on the "rape" that Jaime was the POV and Jaime would never have perceived that event as a rape, no matter what really transpired.

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I saw it somewhere else I guess. No problem being wrong about that. Is that HBO? Still bad.

Or I confused them with Graves.

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