How would you rate episode 404?

[Ser Blake]

After several rewatches I am un-tenning this episode (to coin a...word). The Jaime material was really well-handled, particularly his farewell to Brienne. And the last fifteen minutes or so were perfect in creating and sustaining a level of audience dread and discomfort. And then the payoff came completely out of left field with that awesome WW ending. They've sure livened up Bran's storyline and found a decent way to add material to Jon's.

Wait then why are you un-tenning it..? :huh:

[Konradsmith]

^Agh. Thanks for the correction. :cheers: I hope this emoticon explains both my gratitude to you for correcting me, and the sorts of fluids that influenced me to make such a grievous typo.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Konradsmith

[Domonju]

One of the worst episodes so far. I almost hated every minute of it.

[Jacob Feybrad]

Nothing will ever beat the revelation of Darth Maul.

[Ignorant Bog Woman]

One of the worst episodes so far. I almost hated every minute of it.

You guys need to be more specific. I love reading vitriol.

[SkaggCannibal]

You guys need to be more specific. I love reading vitriol.

Best go to the nitpicking without repercussions-threat then.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

Best go to the nitpicking without repercussions-threat then.

That thread is for people to say whatever they want without fear of having to justify themselves.

This thread doesn't have the 'without repercussions' so people are perfectly within their rights to ask for an explanation.

[Domonju]

You guys need to be more specific. I love reading vitriol.

Sure. These are the things that bugged me most:

- The guy who plays Littlefinger, his acting has become atrocious. His accent changes from episode to episode. He needs to chill the fuck out.

- I'm bored of Sansa making her doe eyes. Although there is a small hint that she is going to start picking up how to be a masterclass bitch soon.

- Jaime's character is all fucking wrong now. Because of last week's rape scene and this week's Bring me Sansa's head on a plate invented scene, it looks like he's sending Brienne off to do his dirty work for him. The significance of the Oathkeeper is lost.

- Emilia Clarke only has one facial expression.

- Bran meets the traitors? Why? Why? Why? Adding scenes to make things better is fine but I found it to be useless. Let's add some drama pointlessly sort of thing.

- The easy reveal that QoT was behind the murder. Pointless. Well, except for making Margaery Tyrell look completely clueless.

- The completely fake scene where Jon reveals he knows that Bran is beyond the wall because , I guess, Sam told him. Push your shit plot forward D&D. Push it. Till it hurts.

The one good scene here was the Margaery & Tommen bed scene. That's as far as I would go. And even that was dumb because she got past the Kingsguard way too easily.

[boojam]

- Daenerys's storyline is so boring this season in the show. I loved how she took Meereen in the books, and all of the drama with Jorah and Daario is just so downplayed here. Give my girl some drama and reason to even exist in this show, PLEASE. I am becoming very disappointed with the new Daario actor, even though I had expressed high hopes for him because I had liked him in other shows. The directors could have stretched out the taking of Meereen over at least two episodes, thereby providing "filler" for the show and explaining to Unsullied how it went down a lot better than I feel like they did.

No I like Michiel Huisman as Daario, only trouble is even tho he's in episode 1 and 3 , and 4 yeah have to look hard to see him I think he has only had lines in E3!

[Daske]

9/10 from me. Other episodes reached greater heights, but this was one of the few episodes that kept me completely gripped from beginning to end.

[Mr Fixit]

A great episode, no doubt about it. Bryan Cogman delivers his best, as usual.

I like how focused Season 4 has proven to be so far. D&D aren't afraid to leave characters off-screen for multiple episodes which results in a tighter narrative with more forward momentum. Dany's conquest of Meereen was brief but very effective. I like Grey Worm's increased prominence and the way the show made him our viewpoint into the slave revolt. King's Landing was great as well, but Jaime was the man of the hour here. He was served very well by Cogman's script: his scenes with Bronn, Tyrion, Cersei, and Brienne were of exceedingly high quality. I must say I really like the Wall storyline this year in a way I haven't since Season 1. Kit Harington's new&improved Jon Snow is a welcome sight and it's easy to see why so many black brothers would choose to follow this guy. Bran's story deviation has me quite interested; I like not being sure how it'll play out. Will Jon meet him next Sunday or will Bran's little band manage to slip away while the Night's Watch raiding party keeps the mutineers occupied? The last scene of the episode was such a great moment. It's easy to forget, even with all the dragons and direwolves, that this is a fantasy show. It's nice when the show reminds how truly alien and mysterious things are going to get down the road.

A very strong 9.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Mr Fixit

[SkaggCannibal]

That thread is for people to say whatever they want without fear of having to justify themselves.

This thread doesn't have the 'without repercussions' so people are perfectly within their rights to ask for an explanation.

Yeah so when someone asks for more criticism, I advice them to read the without repercussions-threat, because that's where you'll find the most/best criticism. Did I say anything about not having the right to ask for explanation? Don't think so.

[rmholt]

Not quite sure why some people are saying the Walkers haven't proven themselves to be evil or bad in any manner. The very first scene of this series they beheaded some NW guys, and they seemingly enjoy mutilating bodies and such.

Mel's one POV suggests she sees them as good, vs Children/BR but her vision interpretations are questionable.

[rmholt]

Not quite sure why some people are saying the Walkers haven't proven themselves to be evil or bad in any manner. The very first scene of this series they beheaded some NW guys, and they seemingly enjoy mutilating bodies and such.

Mel's one POV suggests she sees them as good, vs Children/BR but her vision interpretations are questionable.

[rmholt]

Not quite sure why some people are saying the Walkers haven't proven themselves to be evil or bad in any manner. The very first scene of this series they beheaded some NW guys, and they seemingly enjoy mutilating bodies and such.

Mel's one POV suggests she sees them as good, vs Children/BR but her vision interpretations are questionable. It's the wights who do the bad things. Of course the WW create and command wights. Maybe they think they have good reasons. The books are full of unintended consequences from people acting on erroneous information or assumptions. So who knows?

[Miss Carnahan]

Gave it a 5.

The first half of the episode was really good, the second half was a bit boring. I don't mind so much if the show makes little changes, but Jon knowing that Bran is still alive and Bran being captured by the mutineers is a bit too much (but that's just my personal opinion ofc).

Hooray for the appearance of Ser Pounce though!

[sifth]

People seem to be calling the Night's Watch traitors cartoonishly evil, but forget that George himself has created plenty of characters who are as well. The Mountain, Vargo Hoat and the Murmmers, The Boltons, pretty much every enemy Dany has in Slavers Bay.

So if GRRM creates a one sided villain it's alright, but if D & D do it there's whining. Can anyone say double standard, lol

[iknownothingjonsnow]

People seem to be calling the Night's Watch traitors cartoonishly evil, but forget that George himself has created plenty of characters who are as well. The Mountain, Vargo Hoat and the Murmmers, The Boltons, pretty much every enemy Dany has in Slavers Bay.

So if GRRM creates a one sided villain it's alright, but if D & D do it there's whining. Can anyone say double standard, lol

And again, it's 2 entirely different things to have vague references to a cardboard villain off doing misdeeds compared to a moron standing over a campfire beating his chest in a lame attempt to infuse dramatic tension. I'm not a D&D hater by any means, but that scene was incredibly lame and poorly conceived - anyone unwilling to admit that is simply being a D&D apologist.

[sifth]

And again, it's 2 entirely different things to have vague references to a cardboard villain off doing misdeeds compared to a moron standing over a campfire beating his chest in a lame attempt to infuse dramatic tension. I'm not a D&D hater by any means, but that scene was incredibly lame and poorly conceived - anyone unwilling to admit that is simply being a D&D apologist.

We've seen the Mountain do plenty of horrible things on page, The Mummers and Boltons too. So this comment only really applies to villains over at Slavers Bay, IMO

[iknownothingjonsnow]

We've seen the Mountain do plenty of horrible things on page, The Mummers and Boltons too. So this comment only really applies to villains over at Slavers Bay, IMO

The Mountain applies perfectly.

Season 1, we hear about his misdeeds in the Riverlands which prompts Eddard to act on his negative feeling toward the Lannisters ultimately leading to his downfall. Is Clegane's contribution somewhat contrived? Sure. Does it feel feel cheap? No. Why not? Because it's only an element of the puzzle and GRRM actually knows how to drive a story forward without relying on artificial tension.

In the case at hand, we have some douchebag who no one recognizes reciting lame dialogue about his misdeeds for the obvious purpose of making us hate him before he and his band of rebels meet up with Jon's band of Brothers. Does it feel cheap? Yes. Why? Because it's hack writing artificially inserting garbage to substitute as tension. It's the rough equivalent of playing a pop song at the end of a RomCom as a substitute for the emotional connection the script failed to make.