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How would you rate episode 404?

How would you rate episode 404?  

676 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      17
    • 2
      9
    • 3
      19
    • 4
      22
    • 5
      26
    • 6
      41
    • 7
      85
    • 8
      128
    • 9
      209
    • 10
      118


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sunday nite i wasn't thrilled with it... i watched again and the 2nd viewing made me change my mind... i give it a 7, tho i'm still confused as to how the bran/jon meeting, assuming there is one, plays out... and how locke's presence affects things



i also don't know yet how the crucifixions will be viewed down the line... all in all, it was better the 2nd time around


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Hmm I'm really not liking where the Bran story I'd going. It seems as though they altered it to make him seem relevant, but that might come back to bite them. Either that or it ends up being a small detour as Ghost and Summer free them. Still, not a fan of it.

Decent episode otherwise. And Craster's sons...become Others. I wasn't expecting to find that out from the show.

I agree. I don't like to see them change the story lines so much that it affects the major events yet still to come. The show is mostly good but since I read all the books I get disappointed when they add extra stuff that doesn't make sense and take important things away. Like where is Strong Belwas and why are they even wasting time with Grey Worm and Missandei having some kind of date in the middle of battle?

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540 votes in, 7.82 average, 9 median, 8.03 normalized average.


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I gave this one a 9, and count me in the camp that enjoyed the changes! I also found some of the artistic touches compelling in this episode. For instance, our very first image was fire , and the last one was ice when the baby's eyes cracked as the blue came into them. I enjoy little things like that as I'm a bit of a technical whore. If Thrones was judged purely on its production values it would be a 10 most weeks.



I also wonder whether anyone else caught the rather obvious Third Reich iconography of Dany standing on a very Albert Spier-type structure with the huge red and black banner draped over the Harpy's wings? To me that was perhaps the most subtle spoiler of all. I think Dany is going down at the end :) But of course, I could be reading way too much into it - I have been known......



My own little crackpot from last night's frosty Darth Maul was that he is Coldhands - because he was KIND, dammit! He was kind. I loved him. I am still hoping we get Coldhands.



Now I've got that out of the way....



Liked:


Meereen - surprisingly. Being a huge fan of Dany in the books, I had got fed up of her in the show, but I think last night was helped by Grey Worm and Missandei discussing how they were taken as slaves, thus humanising the scene somewhat. I see that others have said they felt the taking of Meereen was rushed, but I don't really agree with this. Obviously due to time constraints and budget we couldn't have a huge amount of time spent on it, and I think they conveyed the main points. The crucifixions were brutal, and especially following them up with that silent Nazi image spoke volumes to me about the negative side of Dany's conquering. I think it was efficient and ecomonically done, and I take my hat off to the director and producers for this.



Jaime/Brienne - Gwen Christie and Nikolaj were nothing short of magnificent in this scene. And after all the furore of the Rapegate last week, again we saw Jaime's honourable side AS LONG AS HE IS AWAY FROM CERSEI. I am convinced of this (both in the books and the show). He is a better person as soon as he is away from her. I think, ham-fisted though it was, this is what the showrunners tried to convey last week with the grotesque scene in the sept.



Jaime/Tyrion - again, a beautifully portrayed intimate scene between the Lannister lads. Again, I rather liked the shaft of light that symbolically shone through the cell window, which divided Tyrion and Jaime - yet another hint of what is to come.



Marg/Tommen - creepy as it was, this was well-played by both, and the set was perfectly lit for it. And we got Ser Pounce, so I had a little squee (it doesn't take much to please this book reader).



All the Wall this week - Kit is certainly coming into his own now, and so is Jon. I didn't mind the cliched Spartacus stand - big glossy TV shows are full of cliches, and this one at least had the twist of Locke standing up too, to put a spanner in the works. So it took the edge off a mawkish moment. Again, it wasn't too heavy-handed for me. And let me say here what an improvement Locke is over Vargo Hoat (who I loathed with a passion).



Didn't like as much:


Marg/Olenna - although we had a nice segue into this with LF's 'grow strong' line, and the scene itself was decently shot, I did get a feeling of things moving way too fast. The reveal of LF's and Olenna's collaboration in Joff's death could have been left for later, but that is a small nitpick, and I think I know why they did it: purely so the viewers will now worry whether Sansa is in even more danger. I know I worried about that in the books!



LF/Sansa - I enjoyed Sansa's questioning, but there again, things seem to have dawned on her very quickly indeed. Her character has spent so long holding her tongue and being terrified, now she becomes ungarded in front of Littlefinger. It just felt like quite a plot leap. I shall not comment on our Aiden.......



Karl the Twat - He overplayed this somewhat, and even I - who can take an awful lot of violence, swearing, blood gore and whatever you like to throw at me - got sickened to death by the rapes and Karl's potty mouth.



However, I was truly outraged when he hit Bran and when Meera was bashed! I don't quite know how Bran is going to get out of this predicament, but I sure as heck don;t want him to come face to face with Jon just yet! But let's see how it goes.



But it still gets a 9 overall, as I was vastly entertained throughout, and I am now firmly on Team Other :)


Edited by Drogon's Personal Trainer

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Exactly. They've done a very poor job with matching everyone's journeys to converge at appropriate moments. Now, there's all these convoluted plots being made up in order to give the characters something to do. That's what makes it filler. And filler is never good unless its in a twinkie.

There's something ironic about an ASoIaF book fan bitching about filler. Meereen, the Iron Islands, and Dorne are full of filler.

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au contrare, ser False.


My first reads of Feast -and to a lesser extent Dance- were disappointing, in a "i need to know what happens next" sense.


Sure, it all feels of sightseeing after the thrills of aSoS, but then with 2 books to go yet, what wouldn't?



However, upon further readings, the plot development and in particular the writing throughout aFfC & aDwD are amongst the most savory of all. Apart from characters we already know, there's the The Red Priest+ a Melisandre POV, the brilliant Saltpans chapters, intro to more Tyrells, Martells and Gerold Dayne.


Danaerys' discontent in Mereen is hardly "filler"; it is key to where her character is headed. She's a teenage conquerer with all the difficulties this involves, after all, not just some fantasy princess waiting to ride in on her dragon to save the day.




We're not bitching, anyways. It's just noticing something that the writers apparently thought we wouldn't, and that's discouraging.


Edited by Ser Shaft of Hightower

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9/10. I like that they are adding more scenes of Jon and Bran... This show is by far the best show ever. I hate when people pick it apart . Just enjoy it , people!


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WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL. 9/10 because 10 is reserved for the Baelors and Blackwaters.

The ONLY gripes I have are...

- Why did the slaves write "KILL THE MASTERS" in the Common Tongue?? Unless Grey Worm wrote it?

- Where did Dany get that giant dragon banner?

Everything else was either good or PERFECT.

Lol... I would assume that Dany has some weavers somewhere in her thousands of followers. They are all wearing clothes after all. I thought that banner looked awesome and dark especially right after the crucificixion of the good masters. Dany showing her dark side, love the Mother of Dragons!

I did not enjoy Caster's Keep and Ghost somehow being captured by those weaklings. Ghost would tear those fools apart. It would have been better just to have him howling in the background and making the mutineers afraid to go outside or something. And then attacking with Summer when Jon shows up with his boys to lay the hammer down.

Also Caster's keep seemed especially brutal and I am not sure that the show runners need to add more brutality than Martin already thought up. Martin is able to weave it into the story, the show runner's brutality tends to come across as just done for shock value. Reminded me of Jofferey killing Roz. Not needed.

What is going on with the others? That is not how I pictured them in the novels at all. Creating others with human babies? Maybe this is where Martin is going, or maybe this was made for TV and will be different than the books.

Otherwise good episode. I really like the Margaery/Tommen exchange even though not in the books. Sansa/Little finger is perfect and I am glad they are allowing Sophie to speak more and act more. Dany was great. Not sure how they are going to make Jon/Bran work. Will Bran convince Jon that the three eyed crow is more important than the heir of Winterfell? That is a tough sale may friends.

7 for me.

Edited by Carey Snow

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I gave it a solid 7. I really dig episodes directed by Michelle Mcclaren. Last season second sons was my personal favorite episode. The scene with Stanis and Sir Davros talking in the dungeon was one of my favorite scenes in the entire run of the show. This one had decent similar dialogue scenes I enjoyed.



Jaime and Briann was a very good scene as was Jaime and Tyrion.



Every scene with Jon was good in this one. Kit has really stepped his game up and it shows.



Sansa and LF had a decent scene as well I thought



I agree with many here that the Crastor's keep scenes were just over the top and seemed to drag for a long time. Karl is a crazy guy I get it, but just hearing him rant over and over again got old real quick.



Liking the Night's Watch dynamic. The look on the acting Lord Commander's face when the men started standing up was priceless. Amazing how actors in this show can convey such an array of emotion with one look.



Going to stick with the 7, would have been higher with some more Lord Tywin and Lord Bolton. Of all the characters in this show, both of these actors steal every single scene they are in.



Not a book reader so sorry if I butchered some names.


Edited by edgeroc

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I've seen on a few podcasts, chats, forums on which the question of 'where did Dany get her giant banner from?' is asked and a popular response seems to be that it's from the sail on her ship. Which i guess would just beg the same question of how did she get a Targ sail made too?



Does anyone have any evidence to support or refute that?


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I've seen on a few podcasts, chats, forums on which the question of 'where did Dany get her giant banner from?' is asked and a popular response seems to be that it's from the sail on her ship. Which i guess would just beg the same question of how did she get a Targ sail made too?

Does anyone have any evidence to support or refute that?

She has thousands of people following her. It would only take one to plan the decoration of the flag, then find others to help create it. They just sacked a city, I am sure they have some cloth and thread.

But they prob should of had a Betsy Ross moment and showed a lady making the flag with the Targ anthem in the background.

Edited by Carey Snow

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I really enjoyed this episode; it delivered under both the character development and the plot development categories in a very satisfying manner. The hour was over faster than I could believe, and the episode gave me both answers to some long-running questions as well as some new developments and possibilities to ponder. I scored it as a nine.



What worked for me:



  • Grey Worm - Missandei scene - I'm not a huge fan of the whole Dany-the-teenaged conqueror of Slaver's Bay/Meereen plot arc in the books or, particularly, the show, so I appreciated the fact that we were introduced to events via the viewpoint of folks who actually knew what it was like to be slaves -- it brought a fresh perspective to plot points that are normally somewhat tedious to me.
  • Bronn - Jaime scene - This is a prime example of a non-book "add on" scene that I found to be really effective. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Jerome Flynn play off each other very well indeed, and we get to see more of Bronn as well as giving Jaime someone to actually have some snarky dialogue with; it's a win-win as far as I'm concerned. Also given the dodgy nature of Shae's "leaving" of King's Landing, I was a bit worried that show Bronn was going to be portrayed as having sold out Tyrion in a very blatant manner -- it's good to see him chiding Jaime to take Tyrion's part.
  • Jaime - Brienne - Pod scene - an effectively underplayed scene that hit just the right emotional balance for me -- there was some humor, a bit of sadness, as well as a tentative touch of hope that some of Jaime's tarnished honor could be reclaimed via Brienne's quest.
  • Queen of Thorns - Margaery scene - I loved watching Diana Rigg schooling Natalie Dormer on the path to becoming queen. Mrs. Peel has still got it, and my appreciation for Natalie Dormer's performance grows with every season.
  • Margaery - Tommen scene - Aging up Tommen's character was a good decision in my books, this scene would have been very disturbing or even impossible had they not made this move, as things stand now, I found it to be deviously delightful.
  • Jon and the Night's Watch scene - I never had an issue with Kit Harington's portrayal of Jon Snow, but this season he is delivering well beyond my expectations. The fact that he's finally getting some excellent dialogue certainly helps. Jon Snow and Alliser Thorne set off fireworks whenever they share a scene. Owen Teale excels at making Ser Alliser a complex and interesting character when in the hands of a lesser actor it could have gone the ham and cheese villain route.

What didn't work for me:



  • The NW deserters at Craster's scene - you've already got a bunch of irredeemable scum who murdered their own commander and sworn brothers -- did we really need to see the over the top "embellishments" of drinking from Mormont's skull and the gratuitous rape scenes? I think that even the most distracted and casual of viewers realize that these are bad dudes; no need to bludgeon us over the head with further proof.


Head-scratching parts:



  • What happened to the fierce and lethal defenders of Stark kids? Are direwolves suddenly no more dangerous than unicorns? How did the bozos at Craster's manage to capture and cage Ghost? Why wasn't Summer defending Bran?

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6/10

Liked:

The Jaime scenes with Bronn, Tyrion, and Brienne

Olenna and Marg

Marg and Tommen

A darker Dany

Jon at the Wall

The Others

Disliked:

LF and Sansa, his accent kills me

Ghost locked up and Summer easily captured

The over the top disgustingness at Craster's

The whole Bran story (and that wig they put on him is awful)

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I gave it a 10 because I think it was the very best episode so far



Whoever done the scripting for this episode...fantastic work!



1. before all as a bookreader I was afraid of long, long, long Mereen plots but I have to admire how the crucification scene focussed Danys - lets say crucial - problems: she overall enjoys to be the "Mother/Mhysa" thing and to bath in the crowd of her "children", on the other side she is fanatic Fire and Blood, no mercy (even if it would have been alll but clever then), in this situation she does not care about who is innocent or not, and she has (and I am afraid she will not learn) that Fire and Blood will always spread the blood of innocents and of her "children" too!....how to show this in this rather short scene - also masterfully symbolized by the building and the big flag - made me shiver!


2. Jaime/Brienne: one of my favorite relationships also masterfully put into scene there....ohh the goodbye scene


3. LF/Sansa: how he touches her when she asks him what he wants like: oh...and before all I want you baby if I could not have my one and only Cat!


4. I like the Bronn/Jaime interaction.. funny every time...this time the hand thing...lolol


I don t like much violence/blood/rape but I think it is absolutely ok where it belongs too....showing mediaval wars without those things would mean to show Westeros as a playmobile/lego world. Brutal mutineers murder and rape as a fact...and if you show them you have to show that too! The books and the TV series too they don t create violence, blood, raping for the fun of it...they just show a realistic mediaval Westeros/Essos world.


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Was just able to watch the episode yesterday, and have not read all 15 pages of this so forgive me if some of what i say is repetitive.

I liked the change of Sam telling Jon about Bran. I never believed that Sam would allow Jons crippled brother to head north alone and never tell him. Sam knows what is up there so I just couldn't see it happening that way.

I somewhat like Locke being added to the watch, didn'tlike him conveiniently over hearing the Jon / Sam discussion, just a little too contrived.

Liked the Ceasar reference from Jon when talking about the brothers betraying the LC and stabbing him in the back!

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I thought that this episode was great. I also really liked the changes that they did with Jon/Bran/Hordor/ect. I am a book reader & I find the fact that they change this great because, I then don't know what is going to happen. Frankly, I think that they did a great job with Bran & co. his story is a great read however, it will NOT translate to tv well at all, Walking in the wood would be like watching paint dry. I think that we all know that Bran & jon probably will not meet up. They all will get away during the fight. I just wonder about Ghost & Summer, how will they get out ( they will probably both end up saving Jons life again. Summer did it before). I like this change from the books. It gives me something while waiting on the next book. I do have my order in for GRRMS & Elio Garcia's book coming out in October. I also, like Margery & Tommen's storyline. I thought that it was great. I heard that Ser Pounce was a pain to work with. I think come next year we will have a new Ser Pounce, or we will see boots instead. :cool4:




I gave it a 7, but it should have been more a 8 instead. I love that this was a Character driven episode. I do love the action/battles on this show. However, I do love the planting foundations for the story itself. & this show was about building for the up coming arcs in the story.



Sorry, but I could really go without seeing dani at all. I was such a fan in season 1 & half way through 2. I see her slowly turning into her BSC Father & Brother with power. Ser BS tried to warn her a few times but, she can't see past her own need for revenge & hate.


Edited by Panther2000

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The more I watched the episode the more I was fine with the changes. I kept remembering that the scenes with Bran trekking through the northlands were really boring. I can only imagine how much more so they would have been on TV. I think this adds some much needed flavor to keep that story going. At first I had no idea how they would get from here back to the books. It didn’t feel like a detour anymore but a new direction. Then I thought of a way and liked it more.



I thought the Jamie/Brienne/Pod/Bron scene worked incredibly well. I think this will also really help build the chemistry of Pod/Brienne.


Also the Jamie/Tyrion worked very well. I was kind of waiting for Jamies speech about with so many hats which duty should he honor speech.



I also liked the further tug O War of Tommon between Margery, Tywin, Cersi.



Loved Ser Pounce…missed Lady Whiskers L




I thought the Dany stuff was very effective way to cut a bit of budget out of a big fight scene while shooting something that conveyed an effective message.



Overall I gave it a 9. If you would have ask me after the first viewing I would have said 7

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This episode rubbed me the right way, I certainly feel it upstaged the other aired episodes of season 4 so far.

Positives:

- Ser Pounce: All must pay their regards to the greatest of knights, champion of the Kingsguard. So glad they included him after all!

- Sansa foreshadowing: Littlefinger's explanation of power and motives were an excellent inclination that Sansa may be joining the game in a powerful way, which I feel could be a much needed factor in regards to the events of Winds (Sansa choosing to support a potential claimant to the Iron Throne.)

- Bran and co: I actually think their new arc is an interesting and engaging addition to the story. All these plotlines converging at Craster's will certainly make a very unique fifth episode, and in regards to people complaining about "filler material," it does seem preferable to Bran not appearing/walking North for multiple episodes.

- Something Other: Much like the scene at Craster's prior, this one really reinvigorated that old sense of surprise from reading the books. The look into the Land of Always Winter was fascinating; beautiful and mysterious, but laced with a certain atmosphere of foreboding. If anything, this scene just left me with more questions about the Others, so the payoff worked out.

- Margaery/Tommen: Their dynamic could certainly become interesting. It'll be fun seeing the two queens become solid rivals so early.

- Jaime/Brienne: Their relationship has changed completely in spectrum since season 2, and it's great seeing the influence they've both exerted on eachother.

Negatives:

- Meereen: Dany's takeover was too hurried; with all the action acenes this season, one would think they could allocate a little more budget to the actual slave revolt, and perhaps some shots of the damage caused. (That being said, the city of Meereen itself is gorgeous, and the great Targaryen flag shot offered a good precedent.)

All around, ignoring minor nitpicks, Oathkeeper earns a solid 9/10 from me.

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