[Book spoilers] Thenn Cannibalism

[Hippocras]

Just because book Thenns have laws and lords does not mean they are not brutal and maybe even also cannibals. We really don't know very much about them. But it is a mistake to assume they are nice guys just because they have some organization and technology.

The change really ain't a big deal in my view. If you didn't like their lines, fine, but the writing quality is a different issue from the choice to introduce them as cannibals. For that, I can understand what the show is trying to do. They are trying to boost the drama of the battle of the wall with some real serious nasty guys to fight. They are also introducing canibalism, which IS an actual theme in the books which may be eventually important, and they are trying to do this while vastly reducing the number of characters they need to write and actors they need to hire from the book version.

The Thenns in the books are the ones who make the most trouble for Jon after they pass south of the Wall. So it makes sense to show them as nasty now.

[We Swore A Vow]

On asoiaf wiki it mentions that magnar is the name of a vassal house on skagos. The title magnar is held by a then the leader iirc.

[paddington]

Not a lot of meat on a forearm. Going to be a lot of dissappointed cannibals, if all thats brought back is an arm. Should have taken a leg.

[Nobody of the canals]

On asoiaf wiki it mentions that magnar is the name of a vassal house on skagos. The title magnar is held by a then the leader iirc.

That's true. There seems to be a House Magnar from Skagos, that could have been the inspiration for this change.

So far we've only heard rumors that the Skagosi are cannibals - no one actually confirms it. So it could very well be untrue. Either way, the Magnar in the show was slightly caricaturish with very obvious lines - it sort of reinforces my impression that the original writing in the show isn't particularly great. I also wonder about the logistics of feeding the whole Thenn crowd traveling with the Wildling force north of the wall.

I've been re-reading ASoS in bits for a while, and maybe I'm forgetting something, but Styr in the books seems like an average jerk, who, while not being particularly kind or nice, doesn't seem evil either. His attitude towards Jon, at least, is by all means, justifiable.

[jet199]

Northern cannibalism has always bothered me anyway. Cannibalism does tend to have a ritual aspect but it is also far more common in cultures where there are not a lot of protein sources in the environment. In an icy northern climate there is far more protein available than vegetation so the likelihood of a cannibalistic culture is low. I think GRRM just used cannibalism to equal savage just like he made the giants vegetarian to try to paint them as big, hairy hippies. Can you imagine the amount of calories you would expend to get a few roots out of the hard frozen ground, it is far more sensible to just eat a deer, no wonder the giants are going extinct.

The Thenns as cannibals makes more sense than the other wildling tribes, if they can grow some plants but maybe have hunted out their valley or driven animals out to protect their crops. I know it screws some things up with the plot (and Jon's positive appraisal of his own actions in his POVs which we should be suspicious of anyway considering how those POVs ended) but I can't really hate the change.

[Ravi Seaworth]

That's true. There seems to be a House Magnar from Skagos, that could have been the inspiration for this change.

So far we've only heard rumors that the Skagosi are cannibals - no one actually confirms it. So it could very well be untrue. Either way, the Magnar in the show was slightly caricaturish with very obvious lines - it sort of reinforces my impression that the original writing in the show isn't particularly great. I also wonder about the logistics of feeding the whole Thenn crowd traveling with the Wildling force north of the wall.

I've been re-reading ASoS in bits for a while, and maybe I'm forgetting something, but Styr in the books seems like an average jerk, who, while not being particularly kind or nice, doesn't seem evil either. His attitude towards Jon, at least, is by all means, justifiable.

Once we admit that they changed it, it's useless to compare the Thenns of the show from those of the books. Whether they are a good introduction is subjective. To me, they might serve the purpose of increasing the threat to Castle Black well.

[Nobody of the canals]

I agree - the change itself is fine, after all wildlings like the Weeper are shit scary. But the writing could have been a little less over the top, I think. The way he was introduced, it was like he had the evulz plastered all over him, and all through the conversation, he kept dropping very unsubtle hints about the cannibalism and then, big surprise, a human arm. I feel like there should be better ways of introducing creepy characters in a subtler way - in fact I would have been more shocked and scared if they'd the gone the way of treating the Magnar like, well, a normal jackass, who, oh btw, ate humans. But I don't know, maybe there wasn't enough time.

[Cold Crashing Waves]

The cannibalism thing wasn't meant to be a surprise or subtle. These guys are anything but subtle. The point of the scene was to establish the Thenns as hard, brutal, monstrous motherfuckers and it worked.

[Zar Lannister]

When I saw the Thenns, all I could think of was "Poor Alys Karstark."

LOL. This was also my first reaction. But then I really thought that Alys is probably unnecessary for the show. I've learned to accept there are some details that wouldn't translate well into the TV-episodes (or would just seem to unrealistic)... and from a financial standpoint, I think adding additional characters that aren't so active plot wise would increase costs way too much.

So I guess I'm cool with the change in the Thenns and presenting the Free Folk as a group of people who are as diverse as it comes and helps people understand some of the dangers lying North of the Wall (because as far as we know, all that the TV viewers have seen is the dangers South of the Wall).

EDIT: Clarity

[Chebyshov]

LOL. This was also my first reaction. But then I really thought that Alys is probably unnecessary for the show. I've learned to accept there are some details that wouldn't translate well into the TV-episodes (or would just seem to unrealistic)... and from a financial standpoint, I think adding additional characters that aren't so active plot wise would increase costs way too much.

So I guess I'm cool with the change in the Thenns and presenting the Free Folk as a group of people who are as diverse as it comes and helps people understand some of the dangers lying North of the Wall (because as far as we know, all that the TV viewers have seen is the dangers South of the Wall).

EDIT: Clarity

100% agree

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

I don't like the change. It seems like the show producers are trying too hard to have clearly identifiable (bald) evil baddies in the upcoming battle.

What makes the wildlings interesting is the fact that they're not just a bunch of evil savages trying to get beyond the Wall so they can eat people. The audience is supposed to be a bit unsure who to root for.

I disagree. If book fans get upset about any kind of change, then why is Tywin Lannister widely regarded as one of the best portayals in the TV adaptation? Charles Dance doesn't really look like book Tywin at all, and he sure as hell doesn't spend time with Arya in Harrenhal.

Book fans can accept and even appreciate significant changes when they make sense and actually improve upon the books. Turning the Thenns into evil cannibals doesn't improve anything. It just seems like some network executive in a suit has presented a bunch of pie charts and said that ratings will be higher if there are some obvious baddies involved in the Battle of Castle Black, because audiences are so stupid that they get all flustered and angry when they don't know who to root for.

:agree: This.

It's not so much that the Thenns are being portrayed as cannibals, it's more that it was done in such a heavy handed, clumsy manner.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Now there needs to be subtlety in the way a group of savage, cannibalistic Thenn's are introduced? Because, the fact of the matter is, whatever the Thenn's are or aren't in the novels is kind of irrelevant to the television show. It's the kind of tangential detail that can easily be changed, because the far-reaching effects are minimum, and it allows the writers to display a different aspect of the wildlings' culture.

Orell was kind of an asshole, but all things considered, he wasn't so bad. Tormund is downright amiable, if intimidating, and Mance comes across as both reasonable and respectable (in the short amount of time we've spent with the character). The wildling camp was full of women and children, and their goal is one that the audience can easily identify with (get south by whatever means necessary in order to avoid becoming another solider in an undead army), as well.

Then there's Ygritte, a pretty major character (who has been around since the middle of the second season), and one that the majority of the viewers seem to have a positive response to. So this idea that the writers haven't already made the battle similar to Blackwater, in terms of moral ambiguity, seems disingenuous. The audience already has 'good guys' to root for on both sides, and now (with the addition of the Thenn's, and the return of Slynt & Thorne) they have 'bad guys' on both sides of the battle.

Finding the scene overwrought is one thing, though I would disagree that it wasn't an effective introduction to those characters, but saying that the scene is being used to more clearly delineate the 'good guys' from the 'bad guys' doesn't seem like a valid complaint, considering it's actually evening the scales.

[WTFSalami]

Agreed with all of that. Not to mention, the soundtrack during their introduction was just so awesome. I love Ramin Djawadi. His music is one of the main characters of this show. He's so good at capturing the different histories and tones of houses, as well as different situations.

Most everybody has a theme in this show that is so appropriate to them and their story.

[TheWanderer]

It's not so much that the Thenns are being portrayed as cannibals, it's more that it was done in such a heavy handed, clumsy manner.

IDK about clumsy but I think heavy handed is the way to go for this scene (and introductions in general). If you're too subtle than people's impression is going to be "Okay, so Tormund's got some more guys, guess that will mean trouble for Jon, and they're called Thens or something? Look a little weird." and they're going to completely forget about them. But Styr's heavy-handedness means people finished that scene and thought nothing other than "Those Thenns are crazy man, I feel real worried about Jon's safety now."

Plus, I get the impression that Styr was deliberately hamming it up. Remember he's not just introducing himself to us but also introducing (and reintroducing) himself to Tormund and his crew. Styr wants to be the boss and the best way for him to be the boss is to remind everyone that you do not f*ck with the Thenns. (And I seriously feel like his entire monologue could've been delivered like that Lonely Island song and it would've worked perfectly: "Got an owl, Like A Boss! Took a detour, Like A Boss! Ate a fatty, Like A Boss! Threaten Ygritte, Like A Boss! Try some crow, LIKE A BOSS!")

[jarl the climber]

IDK about clumsy but I think heavy handed is the way to go for this scene (and introductions in general). If you're too subtle than people's impression is going to be "Okay, so Tormund's got some more guys, guess that will mean trouble for Jon, and they're called Thens or something? Look a little weird." and they're going to completely forget about them. But Styr's heavy-handedness means people finished that scene and thought nothing other than "Those Thenns are crazy man, I feel real worried about Jon's safety now."

Plus, I get the impression that Styr was deliberately hamming it up. Remember he's not just introducing himself to us but also introducing (and reintroducing) himself to Tormund and his crew. Styr wants to be the boss and the best way for him to be the boss is to remind everyone that you do not f*ck with the Thenns. (And I seriously feel like his entire monologue could've been delivered like that Lonely Island song and it would've worked perfectly: "Got an owl, Like A Boss! Took a detour, Like A Boss! Ate a fatty, Like A Boss! Threaten Ygritte, Like A Boss! Try some crow, LIKE A BOSS!")

So the Thenns are a little different, they like to eat other people, its not like they are hypocrites or keep it secret, they are hospitable and willing to share. The thing that got me is why are they all bald, most people who live some place that's really cold wear hats and grow beards, so they are like the skinhead brigade of the wildlings. I wonder if there women are bald?

[TheSpottedCat]

Yes, it did bother me a lot, and yes, I think it will have ramifications for the wildling storyline in ADWD. But, I guess they might give the Thenns' role to another tribe, or have Sigorn belong to another tribe.

[TheWanderer]

The thing that got me is why are they all bald, most people who live some place that's really cold wear hats and grow beards, so they are like the skinhead brigade of the wildlings. I wonder if there women are bald?

While I agree that being bald probably isn't super practical (it's not really a big deal though cause you know, hats and hoods) I do like the way it gives the Thenns a very unified look. That's one of the biggest things about the Thenns in the novels, they are very well organized and disciplined and I think having them all have the same hair and scars makes them come across less like a marauding band of savages and more like an army (of savages). Helps make them threatening. Plus it looked cool.

[marsyao]

I think they're not cannibals. They were trying to mock them because they got Jon with them before.

These Thenn are cannibals in the TV show, didn't you see the human arm roasting on the fire?

[Chebyshov]

While I agree that being bald probably isn't super practical (it's not really a big deal though cause you know, hats and hoods) I do like the way it gives the Thenns a very unified look. That's one of the biggest things about the Thenns in the novels, they are very well organized and disciplined and I think having them all have the same hair and scars makes them come across less like a marauding band of savages and more like an army (of savages). Helps make them threatening. Plus it looked cool.

I agree, I thought it was a nice touch as well. Also I know Styr in the books is described as bald and clean shaven, and I don't believe he wears a hat. It just kind of shows how the Wildlings are tougher and more suited to that climate (and thus more prepared for the winter).

[Fevre River Warrior]

I think they are combining the Thenns with the cannibals from Skagos in the story. It makes me wonder where little Rickon will end up.......since the books hint at Skagos but the show says the Last Hearth.