Jump to content

[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick Without Repercussion


teemo

Recommended Posts

I agree with what others have said. If Oberyn is such a romantic and desirable guy then why would he need to go and hire prostitutes? Surely just travelling to the courts of noble houses and inns/taverns or at tournies in the realm would fit more for whats meant to be an adventurous heroic character. Having to pay for it feels like a poor fit. Especially when he pulls rank on the male pimp. In fact, him and Elaria come across as quite snobbish the way they're acting bossing around the prostitutes and picking over them like choice meat. All that aristocratic arrogance and elitism. Certainly not the general egalitarian and libertarian vibe that the Dornish are meant to exude. Never mind that in previous seasons when Varys n Littlefinger talk it was established that Littlefingers brothels are frequented by pedophiles and necrophiliacs. Do you really want to make this heroic character be introduced in such a place? What does that say about Oberyn? Nothing pleasant.

In his book introduction, he speaks about brothels and whores.

Paraphrasing:

"It's true you increase taxes in prostitution?"

"Yeah, whatever. Dad's idea"

"Ok, then I'll take money, even princes pay taxes"

"What? a brothel? But your wife/lady is hot hot hot"

"Yep, hot. We might want to try something fancy over there, like a blonde"

He eventually goes to Chataya and beds her daughter (or the other way around).

Of course, this is H(ot)B(i)O(beryn) and they need to hipersexualise everything because... I whatever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daario is difficult, because I guess if he would have been the "first one", I would have preferred him over the old one, but now I got used to the old one, so it feels a little weird.



Another thing that feels weird, is Jaime being already there, because it just causes again a shift in the motivation of actually quiet a few characters. First of all Jaime, because Sansa is still there, so he somehow actively chooses to ignore his promise instead of missing her and then of course Cersei being mad at him for being "too late" seems not quiet right yet, because what she is desperatley mad about in the books hasn't happened yet, so compared to that, he is quiet on time ;)


It feels a little bit like when Cat was releasing him without knowing of Bran/Rickon, they somehow always seem to skip the mother's unbearable pain as a motivation for acting unreasonable (although to be fair, with Cersei I can see their point, she might not need that :D )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daario is important from the start. There's the push and pull, her dragon self (Daario) and the silk queen, and that's happening now. And she falls in love with him, they have to tell that story. She's drawn to him for a reason, and it has everything to do with the overall plot, but even as character development, falling in love with someone is a pretty big deal. You have to show the audience, not tell them.

In ASOS? In that book, he goes into the tent before the fight at Yunkai, Dany flirts with him for a bit and this is largely a set up for another argument with Jorah. The flowers is only referred to in passing on the road. Then Belwas fights the champion and I think Daario makes a passing comment. Then Jorah gets exiled and Daario makes a remark about going to take his head.

I certainly would not consider the character to have been as important from the start, in ASOS as he is in ADWD. He only says a few sentences. Dany exiling Jorah is much more prominent in ASOS. Its not a credible argument you're making here. Her losing him and being betrayed by him has a profound impact on Daenerys. Daario has a handful of lines during that novel and is really only briefly introduced. In contrast, Jorah has been with Dany since the beginning and in the books things between them are much more involved and elaborated.

The answer is that they should have already set this stuff up (novels way) so that Jorah can be exiled when Meereen is taken and THEN they can go on all they want about Dany/Daario. They have all the time in the world to show this to people and its nowhere near as complicated as you are making out. How many scenes did it take for Jon and Ygritte to become an item or to get how eachother felt? Not many at all.

Daario is going to be with Dany for the season(s) after Jorah is exiled. They have all the time in the world to develop that relationship and pretty much do everything those characters do in the books and all the rest. Plus, they already spent half of season 3 talking about how she wants Daario and inventing new material to give him more to do and plenty of chance to flirt with Dany. I think the audience fully gets that she wants him and likes him.

Just because they are going past the 3rd book into ADWD does not suddenly mean that they should cut ASOS material. Exiling Jorah will fall flat if they don't pick up things with Dany and Jorah where they left off way back in season 2. Hes a glorified extra atm. Why should show dany give a fuck if she loses this guy or finds out he broke her trust? Hell Grey Worm and Missandei got as much attention and stuff to do in season 3; its ridiculous. Just kill the character off if you have no interest in telling the characters story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jorah telling Dany dragons can't be tamed. But who was Balerion, Meraxes and Vhagar? Jorah, you're from Westeros. You should know this.

Yeah he sounded like such an idiot when he said that and it felt totally unnecessary to have him there.

Especially since we know that Dany DOES tame Drogon. Which i suppose is the point that Jorah is throwing up the doubt into the audiences minds. But he still sounds like an idiot because Targs have tamed dragons and he never says it in the books and for some reason the show needs to invent material Jorah to do when he has a perfectly good storyline with Dany that they cut for no good reason at all. Its a bit like the Jorah/Barristan scene in season 3. Why invent random crap like that which is mainly just to explain the changes HBO has made regarding what Barristan knows? He has scenes in the books and a story behind them. Why constantly remind me the character loves Dany if you're not going to follow the books and have him do something about it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<snip>

She starts falling for him as soon as she meets him. She remembers the flower scene three times, it matters to her.

He's mentioned a lot in ASOS. He gives her the two heads and flirts with her. She flirts back, she asks him if he knows how to use his "blades" (hint hint) with the lady handles. Jorah gets jealous. She says stop trying to push other men away from her. She thinks about him, finds herself stealing looks at him, imagines what it would be like to kiss him, asks, could I love Daario?, dreams of him in bed with her, ...

I don't know why you are seeing it as Jorah vs. Daario, it's not like that.

Say what you will, they are clearly going there now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys do realise you're all a vocal minority, right?

*points to them* Hey i want no part of the hate-train! (hehe i hear ya doe)

Bitchy bitchy bark barks? The only beef i really had was too much fucking Shae. I am so tired of her same ring around the fucking rosey. Im sick of her constantly bitching. Im just so sick of that actress and how bad she is. Ughnnn...

I do wish Dany looked more foreboding and intimidating when she gets really mad about the 163. She looked like a little girl who got her cookie taken away instead and im like "D: no....death glare, come on....cant even death glare~" She did try so very hard to be all "Grrrrrr" So A for effort i guess.

Jorah telling Dany dragons can't be tamed. But who was Balerion, Meraxes and Vhagar? Jorah, you're from Westeros. You should know this.

<.< Pretty sure he meant "these are not house-cats Khaleesi."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She starts falling for him as soon as she meets him. She remembers the flower scene three times, it matters to her.

He's mentioned a lot in ASOS. He gives her the two heads and flirts with her. She flirts back, she asks him if he knows how to use his "blades" (hint hint) with the lady handles. Jorah gets jealous. She says stop trying to push other men away from her. She thinks about him, finds herself stealing looks at him, imagines what it would be like to kiss him, asks, could I love Daario?, dreams of him in bed with her, ...

I don't know why you are seeing it as Jorah vs. Daario, it's not like that.

Say what you will, they are clearly going there now.

You are saying its perfectly fine for HBO to cut all the Jorah/Dany stuff and are justifying them spending half of season 3 on Dany falling for Daario and are now justifying them doing even more additional material on Daario. Even though GRRM wrote Jorahs exile to conclude Danys story in ASOS? That kind of implies its important and that a lot of pathos is attached to that moment. Even if you discounted the fact that Danys in tears when she finds out, Jorah goes on a mission to take Meereen for her and hes then dramatically exiled with her being so torn up that her hands are left shaking? Even though he spent most of ASOS building the tension between the two up? You just think its okay to cut all of that and want them to focus on Dany/Daario for season after season?

You are making it Jorah vs Daario

I do not care how much time they spend on Daario. They've already spent half a season on him. They are going to have many seasons with him and Dany. Jorah is NOT going to stay around for much longer. He could potentially die and never see Dany again. I can't for life of me understand why you think its fine to give Jorah as many lines and as much point to the story as a character like Grey Worm. The show has made him no more important than Boros Blunt or Meryn Trant.

Daario is not as important as Jorah in ASOS. Do not talk rubbish. Daario gets introduced. Exiling Jorah is much more pronounced and important than her first interactions with Daario. Thats just self evident. Yeah Dany thinks about the flowers in ADWD. But she meets Jorah fucking force ghost in the dothraki sea and she talks about his exile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys. Guys. Crackpot theory:

Olyvar (the boy whore that works for Littlefinger) gets sent to the Wall and becomes Jon's steward. :leaving:

<.< Pretty sure he meant "these are not house-cats Khaleesi."

He just came out of nowhere like some dark cloud of despair to rain on Dany's picnic. I thought he'd say something encouraging but nope.

"They'll never be trained, Khaleesi. They'll always be terrible monsters. You'll have to ride me into battle."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tiny tiny thing. Ser Preston is still alive apparently. Hardly makes a difference to anything really. Other than that, nothing at all. Arya's scene was slightly different than the book but just as good. Not sure what she's going to do for the rest of the season, though.

I also took notice of Ser Preston's vitality, shouldn't he be dead since Season 1? - Just let the line be 'Ser Balon Swann will guard...'. :|

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys. Guys. Crackpot theory:

Olyvar (the boy whore that works for Littlefinger) gets sent to the Wall and becomes Jon's steward. :leaving:

He just came out of nowhere like some dark cloud of despair to rain on Dany's picnic. I thought he'd say something encouraging but nope.

"They'll never be trained, Khaleesi. They'll always be terrible monsters. You'll have to ride me into battle."

@Crackpot ugh i hope not. I dont want that wanker being the Satin.

lol hes Jorah, of course hes going to pee in her cheerios. Hes such a douchecanoe. #Jorahhate

I loved the Drogon snapping though. Puts things in perspective for Dany.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oberyn intoruduction was dumb not becuase of the nudity but becuase of suducing the Pimp. He as 6 daughters he does not like men it made no sense.

Other than that I thougt the episdoe was pretty good.

But Oberyn is rumoured to be Bisexual in the books and it's not really out of character for him, considering his...ah, adventurous and passionate 'don't give two shits' nature.

Also, just because he has 6 daughters, doesn't mean he only likes woman. If Elaria can like both (even Dany and Cersei have had scenes with the same sex), then why can't he?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I don't get why hes in that scene being all gloomy. I mean this is the first time the dragons have ever done anything bad and for him to be so matter of fact felt very jarring. Surely he should be shocked and worried if Danys okay; not acting like this has been going on for weeks.



Lazy writing and frankly this scene should only have Daenerys in it. But I guess they need something for the actor to do.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys. Guys. Crackpot theory:

Olyvar (the boy whore that works for Littlefinger) gets sent to the Wall and becomes Jon's steward. :leaving:

Someone mentioned him taking the role of Satin earlier. I know the show likes to be parsimonious with its cast where it can be, but having a LF spy in the NW might be a problematic change to the text (even if he's only a former spy).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone mentioned him taking the role of Satin earlier. I know the show likes to be parsimonious with its cast where it can be, but having a LF spy in the NW might be a problematic change to the text (even if he's only a former spy).

I'm thinking Olyvar will replace Satin or Satin won't be a character at all. I like Satin but it'd be a waste to do away with Olyvar and establish a brand-new character with the same backstory.

ETA: Since Ros is dead, we will need a new world-traveling whore connected to all the important characters. They're both show-only characters as well. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posting the complaints here. Putting the positive comments in the thread that is specifically designed for such things.



First complaint; Not a lot happened, although I may be impatient since I know there are such big things right around the corner.



I was really looking forward to getting to know the Red Viper as Tyrion accompanied him to King's Landing. I was really disappointed that this excellent scene from the book was scrapped in favor of making the HBO boobs quota.



Tyrion is over acting. I love him and he is extremely watchable, but he is doing a lot of mugging.



To me, the verbal clashes between the characters lacked fire.



It was painful to watch Arya wait forever (for no apparent reason) to get involved in the tavern fight. Also, I know she has been trained to move like water, but her thrusts and slices seemed too slow and soft to draw blood.



The Thenns were weird. I'm not a fan of when the show decides to be more perverse than the novels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, so I have one large nitpick. Nevermind Oberyn's over the top introduction, the stupid spy for Cersei, the fact that Tyrion and shae are still having sex in the books (while calling him her "Giant of Lannister" which makes for a humilating moment for Tyrion later on), Emilia's acting, the new Daario looking like some random camp follower who sits in the grass and picks flowers for Dany (who apparently has no wardrobe budget), the Hound rambling about chicken for what felt like 30 mins, and Arya taking way too long to get in the fight. Nevermind all of that!



What drives me nuts is that Jaime and Brienne are in KL WAY too early! There's essentially nothing for Brienne to do so they had her go on some pointless walk with Marg, Brienne and Jaime have a nice chit chat about Sansa (oh Brienne did you hear about Cat? It would have been nice to see an actual scene about it!), and wtf @ Cersei turning down Jaime??? When it's supposed to be the other way around! HE turns HER down then she really hits him where it hurts then their entire relationship changes. It's the big changes like these that should be insulting to GRRM because D&D are essentially saying they can tell his story better than he can. I understand sometimes they need to add or take away things for pacing, but to completely change around this story line is insane. :bang:



Sigh. I guess that little banter between Jaime and Joff where Joff insults him will come into play at the wedding. I can see Joff dying, then Jaime standing by and doing nothing because he knows Joff is an asshole. I'm now just wondering about his reaction at Tyrion being arrested for the crime.


Next week looks good though.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys do realise you're all a vocal minority, right? I mean even shows like True Detective had haters.

But I'm hoping Stannis this season starts to see some redemption because I think you guys are right when you say the showrunners despise his character, so they continue to make him out to be a headcase villain. From the preview it looks like Stannis, Mel, and Davos will be shown quite a lot let's hope they don't continue to butcher that story.

Who's hating on Stannis? I think his character, Melisandre's, and Ser Davos is handled well. If there are haters of Stannis, they'll come around when takes Melisandre's advice and goes to help defend the Wall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...