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tolthar

As to the Adaptation, am I the only one...

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Who thinks adaptation of this series in the strictest sense of the word has been brilliant so far?



And to clarify what I mean... The way the entire cast and crew have allowed this story to sprout plotlines and have them veer off in odd(sometimes awful) directions only to masterfully and brilliantly sew them back together to ultimately remain faithful to the books.



Because this episode if you ask me puts us exactly where we need to be at this point of the story. And I'm so far impressed with the overall adaptation of the books in this series.



The only jarring thing so far is jaimes presence in Kings Landing. but hey, it's probably gonna work out in the end based on my rant.



That's what i feel this episode proves.


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I'd stop short of 'brilliant' at the moment.



I agree about how some diversions have been stitched back together very well, but diversions that I have concerns with are (and not limited to) Shea's character change (GRRM himself has voiced concerns about how they are going to get where they need to go from where they have taken her role) and Melisandre's magical appearance at the BWB after the Mountain couldn't find them for years (although I have no problem with Gendry replacing Edric) and 'Yara' sailing up the Narrow Sea.



Edit: oh and Jaime/Brienne getting to KL so soon... it just creates so many issues that didn't need to be made.


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Yeah I was pretty buzzed off of just watching it when I posted this but in a nut shell thats what i wanted this topic to be. A Discussion for how everyone thinks all the loose threads and whatnot are being handled.



Some jarring outstanding concerns for me are as mentioned Jaime and Brienne in Kings Landing but also another one the episode pointed out which is full of good points and bad is the tavern scene at the end. It to me stands out as a good example of the adaptation at its finest. Especially when you consider that whole scene encompassed 3 separate points form the books. The concern is in the fact the hound is meant to walk away from that fight with a mortal wound am I not correct.



*Hoping this thread is sufficiently marked for book spoilers*


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The concern is in the fact the hound is meant to walk away from that fight with a mortal wound am I not correct.

Plenty of time for other fights. We haven't had the scene that was shown in the promotional photos of Arya walking away from a building with Needle following the Hound as he examined the contents of a money pouch.

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Who thinks adaptation of this series in the strictest sense of the word has been brilliant so far?

And to clarify what I mean... The way the entire cast and crew have allowed this story to sprout plotlines and have them veer off in odd(sometimes awful) directions only to masterfully and brilliantly sew them back together to ultimately remain faithful to the books.

Because this episode if you ask me puts us exactly where we need to be at this point of the story. And I'm so far impressed with the overall adaptation of the books in this series.

The only jarring thing so far is jaimes presence in Kings Landing. but hey, it's probably gonna work out in the end based on my rant.

That's what i feel this episode proves.

No, I think they have done a terrible job everytime they deviate from the books even a little bit. The show is great because it's based on great material and because HBO has spent a huge amount of money to bring it to life. And also because the show's writers have tried to be faithful. I understand that they cannot always be faithful to the books due to various issues that are out of their control, so maybe the fault isn't completely theirs. But pretty much every storyline that has only appeared on the show, not the books, is boring (see Pod's scene at the brothel, Theon being tortured, Ros and many others).

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I think brilliant is fair enough. I really think they have done a bangup job of the whole thing, and the only changes that really weirded me out were some of the stuff in Qarth like the weird coup and the big vault. It is really hard to write stuff like this and there are probably budget, logistical, actor scheduling, etc. considerations that we as book fans have no clue about.






Edit: oh and Jaime/Brienne getting to KL so soon... it just creates so many issues that didn't need to be made.


For me the question isn't 'will Jaime be in the right place at the right time so that his character experiences all the same thoughts and emotions as Book Jaime,' but instead a much more basic 'will it make for good TV?' I say yes, absolutely. Lots of the changes have to do with using the actors to their fullest potential. Jaime gets to KL early because that means we get more scenes with Jaime (don't forget Brienne!) than we might have otherwise. it is a change that will heighten the drama and the intensity - I really don't think it's going to wreck anything.



I am no purist; I'd rather watch a good show than a flawless adaptation. The books are always there if we want to revel in our favorite details. Game of Thrones is an HBO show that I enjoy on the same level as, say, Mad Men or LOST. It is mostly built around dialogue and character scenes, and some of the best moments are the result of imagining 'what would happen if x and y had a conversation.' For example, Melisandre and Thoros comparing notes about R'llor, or Arya chit-chattign with grampa Tywin. And I thought Pod's brothel scene was hilarious for what it was, if somewhat of a dead end plotwise (I had all these theories about LF and the money, when really it was just the writers having fun with Pod).



And then when they throw a bone to book readers, it's that much more enjoyable. The credits rolling at the end of 'Blackwater,' for example, made my jaw drop.



So yeah, I agree that the writing is pretty brilliant, and seeing as the show is getting massive critical acclaim and commercial success, so you are not alone.


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While I would not say that the adaption is brilliant, they still have done a very good job. Most of the actors are awesome and well cast and I like the show very much. I don't think that every little detail has to be exactly the same as in the books. There are some diversions I don't like and also budget and time constraints, I think if they had the chance to make each seasons 12-13 episodes long it could have been brilliant.


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Generally it is very good but there are many deviations that are simply bizarre and confuse the story.

jamie and brienine in kl while sansa is there!!

the whole robb and not jeyne westerling and the pointless waste of time sex scenes!!

Thenns as cannibals!! why??

generally too many sex and naked scenes that are pointless.

alister thorne is surley not gonna turn into donal noye and save the wall!! pls no.

no storm crows only second sons

no val or her sister.

on a positive note the arya and hound scene in the inn was epic

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It's been a year or two since I read the books (and I've only read them once), so I'm not exactly grounded in the series' plot. I remember bits and pieces here and there, but a lot of the quibbles I don't share because, well, I don't really remember them.



I think the adaptation is both good and bad. I mean I'm loving seeing Brienne in the flesh, and though she's a bit awkward (well, she was in S2, not so much now we're in S4), she's amazing. And characters like Davos are excellent despite some of the changes. I am yearning for some of the book's later plotlines to come into effect and really shake up the story, though.



But in truth, I think this adaptation is as good as it's going to get considering:


1. The books have not yet been finished. GRRM has an end-goal, this has been communicated to the people behind the show, but to us it is unknown and for all we know the road to said conclusion will be different.


2. The size and scale of Westeros, the castles, the armies, etc. cannot be communicated on any realistic budget. For them to do a 100% accurate adaptation would require an insane budget, and the show would arguably be unwatchable, not to mention it'd have extremely long seasons and a lot of favourite characters would not be in it as much. Can you imagine them going a whole season without Dany?


3. GRRM can do what he wants in the books. The show people cannot do what they want in the show. Pretty much all of the sexual assaults have to happen off-screen (especially for those who are under 18 - Sansa and Dany being the two exceptions that come to mind) and the show has to be engaging. This means some characters get more screen time than they had in the books, it means some get less. We'll have a constant stream of Dany and Jon because those two are some of the characters that are biggest with the fans. Tywin won't go for a little while yet, IMHO, to capitalise on Dance but also because he's a popular character with a lot of potentially awesome scenes.



I think it's a good adaptation that suffers from some miscast roles, some problematic imagery (Dany's final S3 scene comes to mind) and a lot of the book's content being consolidated. But despite all of that, it's good.


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I agree. Overall, they've done a very good job. I certainly don't agree with everything they do, but I don't think the show could have fallen into much better hands (I think it helped a lot that they were fans of the books). You should drop in on the D and D appreciation thread and repost your thoughts :)


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It's certainly not the worst adaptation out there, and it's clear D+D are aiming to stick to all the main events. However there are a lot of unnecessary changes, a lot of things "cut for time" when they could have taken the place of random brothel scenes and there's a lot that's been simplified when it didn't really need to be.


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I think it's a great adaptation and I think book fans whinge on like entitled children for the most part.

Yeah, so? We love the books, and want to see all (or most) of the stuff that we love from them translated onto the screen. When that doesn't happen in some cases, of course people are gonna get annoyed and disappointed. What's wrong with having expectations?

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I think it's a great adaptation and I think book fans whinge on like entitled children for the most part.

You can look at it in two ways, D&D are bringing our favorite fantasy to the screen, which we should already be thankful for in itself. Or D&D are making fat money on the back of our favorite fantasy, all the while slaughtering it where they feel it's needed.

I do not believe I should be thankful for in itself, D&D are getting enough for it in return already. I actually like the tv show, but when I feel they are crossing a line (again), I believe I am entitled to express that opinion. And not just being a whining entitled kid. It just means I care about the source material.

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I'd go with very good, with a handful of inexplicable bad choices. D&D "get" the gist of what they're doing but they flake out on occasion.



I don't mind the plot trimming, I don't mind no weasle soup or if there is no Val, I don't even really mind the Thenns being cannibals. What I do mind is when they make changes that create a butterfly effect of bad plot logic, like Independent 21st Century Volantis Nurse, or like Mel grabbing Gendry, giving a speech about not frightening the lamb and then terrifying him, leeching him and then immediately deciding to kill him, etc.



I also mind the somewhat inexplicable repetition of some storylines, like Shae and Tyrion a million times, Varys and LF a million times, all having the same conversation...when other plot lines and characters are desperate for more time.


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I didn't find Theon's torture boring, but each to their own I guess.

I thought some of the torture went on too long, and I'm certain it confused the hell out some Unsullied. It was just a bit too much. I understand the reasons it was done so early, the all around Reeking of Theon, but after awhile it seemed more gratuitous than any of the sex and nudity.

For me, I'm one who didn't mind the changes with Pod and the sex scene. I love the hell out of both book and tv Pod, and since Tv Pos is a bit older, I think it was a nice touch. That guy playing him is precious. When it comes to his travels with Brienne, they are gonna need a talker to hang with them, ya know? lol

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I thought some of the torture went on too long, and I'm certain it confused the hell out some Unsullied. It was just a bit too much. I understand the reasons it was done so early, the all around Reeking of Theon, but after awhile it seemed more gratuitous than any of the sex and nudity.

For me, I'm one who didn't mind the changes with Pod and the sex scene. I love the hell out of both book and tv Pod, and since Tv Pos is a bit older, I think it was a nice touch. That guy playing him is precious. When it comes to his travels with Brienne, they are gonna need a talker to hang with them, ya know? lol

Ref: Bolded, each to their own.

At least the torture served a purpose. Pod getting his jollies did not.

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I think it's a good adaptation. I love the books, but this is TV and some of the things in the books just won't work for the medium. Also, I like some of the changes and that we as book readers get to be surprised with some of the changes. For me a good adaption will have changes but stay faithful to the core story and show a respect and love for the source material. The show most certainly does this and as a book fan, I love that they throw things in that are a nod to book readers. Yes, there are things they have changed that I don't like. Probably the two that I'll never let go is how little we saw of Catelyn Stark last season (way too underused) and I really would have preferred that Sansa's wedding had gone down as it had in the books. But I'm trying to let that go b/c they still have a chance to fix Sansa, whereas there's nothing they can do to fix what was done to Catelyn.



The Jaime and Brienne being in KL is odd, but then we got that awesome scene between Joffrey and Jaime so it's pretty much worth it - the whole feeling and awkwardness of that scene. I loved it.



I think the two stories that I'm unsure of how they are going to handle are Bran and Dany - those have been mightily sped up. So we'll see how those stretch out over the next two seasons.


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