Vikings 3: Eye-Stabbing as a means of social mobility

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

That was a good finale. Though some of the twists came from the far left.

[jarl the climber]

.

Random thoughts:

I don't know about you guys, but I thought the actor who played King Horik was a little underwhelming. Not as good; and didn't come off as ruthless as Gabriel Byrne or Jarl Borg.

I also liked how Ragnar's side was one step ahead of Horik's. Except for the first few guards that get killed, didn't they get the memo?

I've seen images of a naked Aslaug and Floki's wife. Is that what we're missing?

I thought I recognized the guy who played Horik and he was actually the Father on Grounded For Life, but yeah hes more of a comic actor.

I guess they put the incompetents and cravens on guard duty that night. I guess if you thought you were getting over by hanging back in battle you were in for a suprise that night.

I can't speak for Flokis wife but the actress who plays Aslaug is 34-24-34, its right there on her wikapedia page right under her birthdate, I've never seen that before, I guess thats a big deal if your a model but still. I still like her though :rolleyes:

[Alia of the knife]

Donal Logue can play assholes as well. He played a baddie in one of the "Blade" movies.

[blasted_saber]

Thoughts on the closing scene with Ragnar on the mountain?

[cdawnb]

Thoughts on the closing scene with Ragnar on the mountain?

A beautiful, cinematic shot of the the new King.

The photographer in me absolutely loves this show.

[Florina Laufeyson]

"Mild beef", if you want to call it so ... :P I know he does, but at least for the moment he is forgiven because he "only betrayed Horik, hehe". And as you say, he is not going to plot to murder Athelstan brutally or something because Athelstan is Ragnar's BFF now.

Is it possible that Floki is even jealous of Athelstan because of all the attention Athelstan is getting from Ragnar?

It is a bit of a shame that there will not be a time gap until the next episode according to that interview - I would like to see how Floki's Sunshine (I am going to call her that now since Icannot spell her name and it is fitting) will turn out to be in a few years! Floki will surely spoil her rotten.

On the violence, I will respectfully disagree because that was just terribly brutal and horrid to watch.

Those that Bjorn let go were servants. All the daughters of Horik were murdered.

Floki is probably jealous of Athelstan's relationship with Ragnar, sure. Im pretty sure its a given. Bonus points cuz A-Man is Christian deep down and that rustles the jimmies of the Flokinator quite a bit. Floki used to be Ragnar's Right Hand Man so to speak. So yeah i could see that.

You can call her Angrboða. Angrboda is acceptable as well. (like Þorrun can be Porunn or whatever)

Ehhh i think im desensitized to fictional violence.

Vikings Star Travis Fimmel and Creator Michael Hirst Talk Season 2 Finale

<.< Not sure how i feel about the highlighted part there.

[Eira Seren]

All the Europeans are getting is some T&A and maybe a little bit of extended scenes. This is probably due to how American TV is full of fucking spammy commercials.

That and our amazing capacity for prudishness (but we make sure to watch HBO and Showtime and have on demand porn channels). Very important to keep network and porn separate, it is known.

Right, and there were times I got confused between all the damn commercials for Swamp People, and the Vikings. Same look is all I'm sayin.' :laugh:

Don't forget Axmen and Mountain Men

:laugh:

Wait, these are not Viking documentaries?

[Pliskin]

<.< Not sure how i feel about the highlighted part there.

It just confirms that Hirst is indeed not a smart guy. His interviews don't make any sense. And his previous work is crap.

How he came to produce Vikings, which is very watchable and can even be very good sometimes, is a mystery to me.

[The Iceman of the North]

(like Þorrun can be Porunn or whatever)

This annoys me to no end. Not spelling it Þorrun is one thing (I have to use cut&paste to do that), but the alternative spelling should be Thorunn not Porunn.

[Talleyrand]

I must say there is one thing that makes this show stand above most of what else is one tv - there's no "the protagonists take the moral high ground" - Ragnar is fucking ruthless, invade his lands he'll burn all your men alive and brutally execute you; plan on killing his whole family? fuck you, your whole family dies and you get headbutted to death.

[Corvinus85]

That and our amazing capacity for prudishness (but we make sure to watch HBO and Showtime and have on demand porn channels). Very important to keep network and porn separate, it is known.

:laugh:

Wait, these are not Viking documentaries?

Only if you count them as the Adventures of the Descendants of Erik the Red.

[Alia of the knife]

I must say there is one thing that makes this show stand above most of what else is one tv - there's no "the protagonists take the moral high ground" - Ragnar is fucking ruthless, invade his lands he'll burn all your men alive and brutally execute you; plan on killing his whole family? fuck you, your whole family dies and you get headbutted to death.

I also like the study in contrasts like him sparing the young Saxon boy.

I think one of the reasons he sees the value of Athelstan is that he is more open minded to other paths than "scorched earth," because that same child would, as a man, remember his mercy in an age where, at the end of the day, EVERYONE was brutal.

[Zorral]

More to the actual point, Ragnar understands that farming land and opening trade ultimately bring more riches than despoiling and pillaging -- and the riches keep growing instead of being a one-time thing.

Still, we're pretty sure we know he made a mistake in sparing Horik's son -- unless there was content that shows otherwise in the European versions of the episodes.

The actor playing Horik, Donal Logue plays Detective Harvey Bullock in the forthcoming television movie, Gotham, billed as "The origin story behind Commissioner James Gordon's rise to prominence in Gotham City in the years before Batman's arrival."

As for U.S. prudishness on television -- I just don't see it. Graphic, bloody, prolonged violence isn't prudishness, nor all the sexualized violence, particularly directed against women. Think of the first episode of the first season of The Americans, for instance in which we see graphic violence during the training of Elizabeth, including an anal rape -- for which then, she wants her vengeance when some years later the opportunity arrives. Then it is used in the typical lazy way of rape by television writers to provide her co-spy husband Phillip a macho, sympathetic scene of rage, and he kills the rapist instead Elizabeth, so we like him and admire him and are grateful to him and so too, presumably does Elizabeth. And there's never another bit about that. Whereas, in real life, if one has been raped, particularly by someone in a position of trust, there tends to be fall-out for the rest of your life.

How Kalinda is used, for instance, on even a terrific show that I love, such as The Good Wife -- if they can't have the character indulging in sexual and violent activities, the writers are rather baffled as to what to do with her.

Coarse, vulgar, dumb, lazy, yes, that's all over television, but not prudishness. Which is why a show like Vikings is all that much more appreciated! :cheers: :cool4:

[Eira Seren]

Only if you count them as the Adventures of the Descendants of Erik the Red.

Well, shoot. Here I was hoping to hear more of these Viking mountain men wielding axes and sporting shaggy trousers. That style of trousers wouldn't be very practical in the swamp, though.

More to the actual point, Ragnar understands that farming land and opening trade ultimately bring more riches than despoiling and pillaging -- and the riches keep growing instead of being a one-time thing.

Still, we're pretty sure we know he made a mistake in sparing Horik's son -- unless there was content that shows otherwise in the European versions of the episodes.

The actor playing Horik, Donal Logue plays Detective Harvey Bullock in the forthcoming television movie, Gotham, billed as "The origin story behind Commissioner James Gordon's rise to prominence in Gotham City in the years before Batman's arrival."

As for U.S. prudishness on television -- I just don't see it. Graphic, bloody, prolonged violence isn't prudishness, nor all the sexualized violence, particularly directed against women. Think of the first episode of the first season of The Americans, for instance in which we see graphic violence during the training of Elizabeth, including an anal rape -- for which then, she wants her vengeance when some years later the opportunity arrives. Then it is used in the typical lazy way of rape by television writers to provide her co-spy husband Phillip a macho, sympathetic scene of rage, and he kills the rapist instead Elizabeth, so we like him and admire him and are grateful to him and so too, presumably does Elizabeth. And there's never another bit about that. Whereas, in real life, if one has been raped, particularly by someone in a position of trust, there tends to be fall-out for the rest of your life.

How Kalinda is used, for instance, on even a terrific show that I love, such as The Good Wife -- if they can't have the character indulging in sexual and violent activities, the writers are rather baffled as to what to do with her.

Coarse, vulgar, dumb, lazy, yes, that's all over television, but not prudishness. Which is why a show like Vikings is all that much more appreciated! :cheers: :cool4:

Hmm. I'll revise my statement: our amazing capacity for prudishness when it comes to healthy sex, and our amazing capacity to showcase excessive tendencies or (glorify) violent sexual activities, especially as they pertain to women. We may not all agree on what constitutes 'healthy,' but it seems like very few people are even having that discussion, in the media, among high school and college students, or the rest of us for that matter.

I mean, I'm just guessing that scene between Porunn and Bjorn was cut, and obviously so was the one with Ragnar and both ladies. I'll agree Vikings has done a better job than many shows. We got to see Ragnar and Lagertha in season 1, and a small count of other happy sex scenes in this show. Yet, suddenly a threesome is a no-go for US cable tv, and Bjorn and Porunn must have been deemed too young to be acceptable to show further? And we get Princess K, the nympho. Clearly they're going for comedic effect, there. I can't really complain about a loss of T&A if the story is still good, but I still think many US attitudes are prudish in the wrong way.

[cdawnb]

For anyone who has Rhapsody, they have a collection of Wardruna's music. Google Play has some too. I don't know about ITunes, but I would think if the other two have it they would also.

Love the music.

[Corvinus85]

For anyone who has Rhapsody, they have a collection of Wardruna's music. Google Play has some too. I don't know about ITunes, but I would think if the other two have it they would also.

Love the music.

You can download their Yggdrasil album from Amazon. I haven't checked to see if some of their older music is there.

[Florina Laufeyson]

This annoys me to no end. Not spelling it Þorrun is one thing (I have to use cut&paste to do that), but the alternative spelling should be Thorunn not Porunn.

Oh gods, i hear you loud and clear! They even spell it with the P on imdb. What the shit?

I must say there is one thing that makes this show stand above most of what else is one tv - there's no "the protagonists take the moral high ground" - Ragnar is fucking ruthless, invade his lands he'll burn all your men alive and brutally execute you; plan on killing his whole family? fuck you, your whole family dies and you get headbutted to death.

What i enjoy about this show is that they display what they can about Norse society and how it operated. The Norse had some morals that look rather Blue and Orange to modern day. Like the idea of vengeance as a means of honor, the utter lack of fear of death, and of course, their means of worship. In Norse society, Ragnar's actions would be seen as utmost honorable. Floki would be completely forgiven for everything he did because his actions had honorable intent. Like how Loki of myth was ultimately forgiven for stealing Sif's hair because he came back with riches and even better spoils to benefit the gods. Lagertha's murder of her husband was completely justified in Norse society because he beat her. (you dont beat on free women.) Etc and so forth.

One could even argue that according to the Norse mindset, hoarding riches in the monastery at Lindisfarne was seen as really dishonorable. Its why they accuse the Christian god as greedy. (because the community of Lindisfarne ultimately did not benefit from such.)

The show provides an interesting contrast between Norse and Saxon culture and viewpoints. Us the viewer, are more familiar with the Saxon morality, yet we root for the Norse. ;)

You can download their Yggdrasil album from Amazon. I haven't checked to see if some of their older music is there.

Gap Var Ginnunga is not on amazon sadly. That one must be imported. You can get it here. They finally got more of the physical cds of that in stock! OooOoOoO

[Alia of the knife]

Well, shoot. Here I was hoping to hear more of these Viking mountain men wielding axes and sporting shaggy trousers. That style of trousers wouldn't be very practical in the swamp, though.

Hmm. I'll revise my statement: our amazing capacity for prudishness when it comes to healthy sex, and our amazing capacity to showcase excessive tendencies or (glorify) violent sexual activities, especially as they pertain to women. We may not all agree on what constitutes 'healthy,' but it seems like very few people are even having that discussion, in the media, among high school and college students, or the rest of us for that matter.

I mean, I'm just guessing that scene between Porunn and Bjorn was cut, and obviously so was the one with Ragnar and both ladies. I'll agree Vikings has done a better job than many shows. We got to see Ragnar and Lagertha in season 1, and a small count of other happy sex scenes in this show. Yet, suddenly a threesome is a no-go for US cable tv, and Bjorn and Porunn must have been deemed too young to be acceptable to show further? And we get Princess K, the nympho. Clearly they're going for comedic effect, there. I can't really complain about a loss of T&A if the story is still good, but I still think many US attitudes are prudish in the wrong way.

Have to also respectfully disagree, because at this point the pendulum has swung and its in your face to the point its cliche and tiresome with no mystery as to me, the most erotic is the most subtle, and in the imagination, something that seems to be lost on modern society.

I also wouldn't say its prudishness as much appropriate time and place as well.

I think it really comes down to privacy rather than prudishness, something else lost in this YouTube/reality show world.

However, to your very good point, it should always be about the healthiness of the discussion, particularly on intimacy.

[Eira Seren]

Have to also respectfully disagree, because at this point the pendulum has swung and its in your face to the point its cliche and tiresome with no mystery as to me, the most erotic is the most subtle, and in the imagination, something that seems to be lost on modern society.

I also wouldn't say its prudishness as much appropriate time and place as well.

I think it really comes down to privacy rather than prudishness, something else lost in this YouTube/reality show world.

However, to your very good point, it should always be about the healthiness of the discussion, particularly on intimacy.

You bring up some interesting points, especially that the imagination can offer more than what we generally get on the screen, and honestly, I happen to agree. I think, though, if we were to weigh it, we'd get a lot more of the yikes! violent variety than the happy healthy variety, unless all we're doing is watching Romantic Comedies (which are themselves fantasies).

And as for privacy, that's a fairly modern concept, ie, probably starting more 17, 18, 19th century, definitely post-Elizabethan England. Before that, privacy in the household, not so much. Too many servants, and too many large families sharing small spaces. Maybe we can thank the Victorians for some of this sensibility. Now you're right, we have none whatsoever, and all dignity can be lost and broadcast to the world live.

You've made me think about a number of things, including the disconnect between the world of reality tv/Youtube and the findings of this and some other researchers:

http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Sex-Generation-Unfulfilled/dp/0465002153

It was really interesting. The most interesting question they posed is 'what is good sex?' We seem to have a generation of people growing up who don't even know how to start that conversation. They're too busy worried that they'll be criticized by their peers for having/not having it. In fact, one college instructor discovered when the topic was broached that her students began asking questions far less complex and philosophical than she was prepared to discuss. . . they were asking things like 'how do you go on a date?' :stunned: Because on many non-Christian campuses (where you should remain celibate and mysteriously a significant other will appear), people are just expected to 'hook up' and then mystically, somehow after a while of hooking up you might become a couple with one of those people. So I think you're right, it's not about prudishness.

I guess I also have in mind an incident a few years ago where some younger female teachers at a school in a neighboring community were fired for bringing in material that parents felt was too explicit for the high school classroom; fair enough for the parents to feel this way. Yet the material was nothing worse than what I've heard being said in hallways; in fact, when the story hit the news I read the poems myself and felt that the messages, while explicit, were all extremely positive, especially in terms of the equality of the relationships and the celebration of adult sexual intimacy. The parents interviewed thought the acts described were 'disgusting'. Ok, again, fair enough. But more disgusting to me are the things overheard in the school corridor, when I was growing up, and now -- things which were/are hands down misogynistic, degrading and disrespectful and show no understanding that there ought to be a connection between sex and positive, respectful relationships.

So I think there's something to the idea that not talking about sex or not showing more of the happy kind is not helping (what I was intitially thinking of as prudishness). Meanwhile, providing a lot of glorified versions of excessive tendencies (think Hangover or Princess K) or sexual violence must be sending some fairly confusing messages to everyone. In retrospect, I don't think we're doing ourselves or the people who are becoming adults and trying to figure all this out any favors by shrugging our shoulders or lamenting over the more violent or excessive examples in video games and tv, and not balancing it out by showing the other side. Or at least talking about it. :cool4:

Everyone please forgive my ramble, and thanks for your posts.

[Old Man Aegon]

So Ragnar spared the little prince... If I remeber correctly, in one of the legends Ragnar installed a puppet king on the throne of Denmark so maybe thats what he'll use the kid for.