Elaena Targaryen Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I thought it was clear that Bjorn brought Borg food that drugged him for the blood eagle ritual, similar to how Athelstan was drugged for sacrifice when they went to Uppsala. It was how Borg was able to not even need to be tied down or not to scream, so he can accept his fate as a warrior and enter Valhalla. But maybe I had the wrong impression. I think I need to explain myself more clearly here. I don't think in any way that Bjorn snuck around, stole drugs, went behind his father's back, trying to help Borg not feel any pain (as he most assuredly felt pain) as an act of mercy or kindness. I think it is possibly a standard practice in performing the rite, that everyone knew Borg was drugged and Ragnar himself sent Bjorn to give him the dose, as we have seen them use drugs to subdue sacrifices previously. I have no medical training or knowledge to draw from but first and foremost I would think it impossible for Borg to stay conscious during the ritual without being drugged as the shock from the pain alone would make him pass out, that would defeat the purpose and ruin the effect. I think the drugs merely keep the sacrifice, and the body itself, calm and subdued enough to make it through the ritual but he likely still felt great fear and excruciating pain while lacking the strength or will to fight it. I don't think that even any drugs we have today, short of putting him to sleep, would have done much more for him than that. (While I certainly never experienced something so sadistic and horrific as this, or even close to it, still maybe my own personal experiences color my perception here and I have not met many who could understand. I went through something where I, awake and aware the entire time, underwent hours of a slow painful injury, followed by a relatively long and excruciating life saving procedure, and ending with several torturing hours of repair. Yes I was drugged to the hilt without being put to sleep but that did not spare me any pain and all it did was keep me tired and subdued, but there was begging, moaning and screaming... a lot of screaming - so props to Borg there. I was still physically and emotionally traumatized but I was glued to the bed and could not fight it, otherwise I would have went medieval on those doctors, oh at the time I'd have been so happy if I could have gotten in one punch or kick - anything to make them stop hurting me or to get back at them for hurting me. Needless to say it was difficult for me to watch the blood eagle scene.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I think I need to explain myself more clearly here. I don't think in any way that Bjorn snuck around, stole drugs, went behind his father's back, trying to help Borg not feel any pain (as he most assuredly felt pain) as an act of mercy or kindness. I think it is possibly a standard practice in performing the rite, that everyone knew Borg was drugged and Ragnar himself sent Bjorn to give him the dose, as we have seen them use drugs to subdue sacrifices previously. I have no medical training or knowledge to draw from but first and foremost I would think it impossible for Borg to stay conscious during the ritual without being drugged as the shock from the pain alone would make him pass out, that would defeat the purpose and ruin the effect. I think the drugs merely keep the sacrifice, and the body itself, calm and subdued enough to make it through the ritual but he likely still felt great fear and excruciating pain while lacking the strength or will to fight it. I don't think that even any drugs we have today, short of putting him to sleep, would have done much more for him than that. (While I certainly never experienced something so sadistic and horrific as this, or even close to it, still maybe my own personal experiences color my perception here and I have not met many who could understand. I went through something where I, awake and aware the entire time, underwent hours of a slow painful injury, followed by a relatively long and excruciating life saving procedure, and ending with several torturing hours of repair. Yes I was drugged to the hilt without being put to sleep but that did not spare me any pain and all it did was keep me tired and subdued, but there was begging, moaning and screaming... a lot of screaming - so props to Borg there. I was still physically and emotionally traumatized but I was glued to the bed and could not fight it, otherwise I would have went medieval on those doctors, oh at the time I'd have been so happy if I could have gotten in one punch or kick - anything to make them stop hurting me or to get back at them for hurting me. Needless to say it was difficult for me to watch the blood eagle scene.) :( :grouphug: I am so sorry that happened to you and hope all is well. And I don't dispute this because it happens more often than you think as it happened to a friend of mine who was having surgery. The only distinction I would make with this subject is that IMHO I think Bjorn did do it out of pity. I think there is a difference between a sacrifice as in the case of the slave girl who was burned with Siggys husband and Athelstan who were both drugged, and an execution. With Borg, it was an execution, and I don't think that Ragnar cared whether he made it into Valhalla or not enough to increase his chances of success by drugging him enough to keep from crying out- in fact, I got the sense he was waiting for him to cry out. Bjorn whether its through the childhood influences of Athelstan, or just Lagertha is a different animal. When Porrun first spilled the water on him, she fully expected to be hit, but Bjorn said it was no big deal. That doesn't take away from his own "badassedness," it just means he saves it for when its really necessary. Even Ragnar showed pity for the Saxon boy who was hiding, putting a cover over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I think there is a difference between a sacrifice as in the case of the slave girl who was burned with Siggys husband and Athelstan who were both drugged, and an execution. With Borg, it was an execution, and I don't think that Ragnar cared whether he made it into Valhalla or not enough to increase his chances of success by drugging him enough to keep from crying out- in fact, I got the sense he was waiting for him to cry out. Bjorn whether its through the childhood influences of Athelstan, or just Lagertha is a different animal. When Porrun first spilled the water on him, she fully expected to be hit, but Bjorn said it was no big deal. That doesn't take away from his own "badassedness," it just means he saves it for when its really necessary. Even Ragnar showed pity for the Saxon boy who was hiding, putting a cover over him. Agree with all of this. Bjorn is definitely a bit more compassionate than Ragnar, and I think his father probably sees it as a sign of weakness. That example of Ragnar's empathy is a bit different, as the potential victim is a child... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I have to say, Jarl Borg took it like a boss, he deserves Valhalla after that shit. That's the real difference between HBO Got and Vikings. The HBO Got would have Jarl Borg as demeaned and humiliated as possible; it would have taken up most of the episode; and we would have seen the worst details, because the organs in play are lungs not genitalia. (Just caught up with this episode as deadlines, and my primary, i.e., professional matters, have been in charge until today.) In my own opinion this episode is as high quality as the others. Have a lot more to sort out about it, of course, but that tells me again this is an excellent episode. My only caveat is Floki's sudden revelation that his feelings about Ragnar have changed. But then, this series does elide over a whole lot of changes -- but then sagas, epics and myths do too, so in this case I'm willing to cut slack. I'd love to believe that Bjorn gave Jarl Borg massively drugged bread. It did occur to me that happened while watching the blood eagle scene. (I would have left the room for such a scene on HBO got.) And that King Horik's promise that Borg would be rescued, was part of helping Horik go to his excruciating execution with dignity. Borg did not know that Eorl Lagartha had appeared. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I think I need to explain myself more clearly here. I don't think in any way that Bjorn snuck around, stole drugs, went behind his father's back, trying to help Borg not feel any pain (as he most assuredly felt pain) as an act of mercy or kindness. I think it is possibly a standard practice in performing the rite, that everyone knew Borg was drugged and Ragnar himself sent Bjorn to give him the dose, as we have seen them use drugs to subdue sacrifices previously. I have no medical training or knowledge to draw from but first and foremost I would think it impossible for Borg to stay conscious during the ritual without being drugged as the shock from the pain alone would make him pass out, that would defeat the purpose and ruin the effect. I think the drugs merely keep the sacrifice, and the body itself, calm and subdued enough to make it through the ritual but he likely still felt great fear and excruciating pain while lacking the strength or will to fight it. I don't think that even any drugs we have today, short of putting him to sleep, would have done much more for him than that. (While I certainly never experienced something so sadistic and horrific as this, or even close to it, still maybe my own personal experiences color my perception here and I have not met many who could understand. I went through something where I, awake and aware the entire time, underwent hours of a slow painful injury, followed by a relatively long and excruciating life saving procedure, and ending with several torturing hours of repair. Yes I was drugged to the hilt without being put to sleep but that did not spare me any pain and all it did was keep me tired and subdued, but there was begging, moaning and screaming... a lot of screaming - so props to Borg there. I was still physically and emotionally traumatized but I was glued to the bed and could not fight it, otherwise I would have went medieval on those doctors, oh at the time I'd have been so happy if I could have gotten in one punch or kick - anything to make them stop hurting me or to get back at them for hurting me. Needless to say it was difficult for me to watch the blood eagle scene.) :agree: We have seen at least twice in this culture that drugs play a part in ceremonial deaths, even those that are consented to, as with Eorl Haraldson's handmaiden (though whether or not she really consented / wanted to do this we don't know, but when the day came she was drunk and drugged), and at Upsalla. This is not the way Christians did it, of course. Because those were political - heretical - pagan deaths. Jarl Borg was a political death, but the form of it made it -- if I understand the ritual correctly -- an honorable death, a ceremonial death, one that took him straight to Valhalla, though he dies without a sword in his hand. Ragnar made sure Eorl Haraldson died with his sword in his hand. In this death Ragnar replaced with his own hands Borg's hand upon the clawed hand hold, to be sure he enacted alive the ritual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Dat wedding song tho. Seriously, the quick shift between the two weddings, not only in organization but music too (latin chant to pagan epicness) was awesome. I really hope they release a soundtrack or something at the end of season 2, 'cause there are so many good songs this season. And yeah, episode was epic as always. A lot of the music from the show comes from the band, Wardruna. And yes, its worth it. Yeah guys, im totally fully Team Bjorn :commie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdawnb Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 A lot of the music from the show comes from the band, Wardruna. And yes, its worth it. Yeah guys, im totally fully Team Bjorn :commie: Thanks for that. I was wondering where they were getting their awesome music from. Its very interesting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn2cool4Westeros Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 A lot of the music from the show comes from the band, Wardruna. And yes, its worth it. Yeah guys, im totally fully Team Bjorn :commie: Yeah, I've been a fan of theirs even before Vikings came around. But I think they produced these songs for the show only, and they probably wont release full-lenght ones for their albums and what-not. That's why the show's gotta release a soundtrack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsClegane Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Yeah, I've been a fan of theirs even before Vikings came around. But I think they produced these songs for the show only, and they probably wont release full-lenght ones for their albums and what-not. That's why the show's gotta release a soundtrack. The songs used in the show are actually a part of the Wardruna's albums "Gap Var Ginnunga" (2009) and "Yggdrasil" (2013): - "Fehu" - season one, episode 4 "Trial" (when Ragnar & Co. pillage the village) - "Heima Thurs" - season one, ep. 9 "Sacrifice" (during Athelstan's mushrooms hallucinations) and season two, episode 7 "Blood Eagle" (during Jarl's Borg torture) - "Bjarkan" - season two, episode 4 "Eye For An Eye" (when the Saxons crucify Athelstan) - "Løyndomsriss" - season two, i don't remember which episode it was, but it's a background score for beheading scene involving Bjorn. These are a couple of songs I recognise, I've heard they used "Helvegen" as well, although I'm not sure it's true. Also, the piece of music at the Floki's wedding was awesome, I wish someone tells what it is. Oh, and "Vikings" OST has only Fever Ray's song and some background music, which is not Wardruna :frown5: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn2cool4Westeros Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 The songs used in the show are actually a part of the Wardruna's albums "Gap Var Ginnunga" (2009) and "Yggdrasil" (2013): - "Fehu" - season one, episode 4 "Trial" (when Ragnar & Co. pillage the village) - "Heima Thurs" - season one, ep. 9 "Sacrifice" (during Athelstan's mushrooms hallucinations) and season two, episode 7 "Blood Eagle" (during Jarl's Borg torture) - "Bjarkan" - season two, episode 4 "Eye For An Eye" (when the Saxons crucify Athelstan) - "Løyndomsriss" - season two, i don't remember which episode it was, but it's a background score for beheading scene involving Bjorn. These are a couple of songs I recognise, I've heard they used "Helvegen" as well, although I'm not sure it's true. Also, the piece of music at the Floki's wedding was awesome, I wish someone tells what it is. Oh, and "Vikings" OST has only Fever Ray's song and some background music, which is not Wardruna :frown5: Yeah, I really want to know which song plays during - Floki's wedding - When Siggy consults the Seer - And when Rollo impales/lifts Arne But I heard there was another group that was going to compose music for the second season. Dunno if they dropped out or are still a part of it, so it might be their songs - or simply, as mentioned earlier, Wardruna's show-only songs. And I didn't know they used Helvegen; that's one of my favorites of theirs - can't believe I never noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Yeah, I really want to know which song plays during - Floki's wedding - When Siggy consults the Seer - And when Rollo impales/lifts Arne But I heard there was another group that was going to compose music for the second season. Dunno if they dropped out or are still a part of it, so it might be their songs - or simply, as mentioned earlier, Wardruna's show-only songs. And I didn't know they used Helvegen; that's one of my favorites of theirs - can't believe I never noticed. The last part of the song "Dagr" sounds like the one from Floki's wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsClegane Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 The last part of the song "Dagr" sounds like the one from Floki's wedding. Yes, you're right! Thanks. Although I must say it sounds better in the show with the wedding stuff going on. BTW, the first 2 minutes of the song are a waste IMO :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn2cool4Westeros Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 The last part of the song "Dagr" sounds like the one from Floki's wedding. Woah, you found it. Good stuff. Now you must use your seer-powers to find the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Woah, you found it. Good stuff. Now you must use your seer-powers to find the other two. All seers are frauds. Don't trust them. As for those scenes, I don't remember in which episode Siggy went to see the Seer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 All seers are frauds. Don't trust them. As for those scenes, I don't remember in which episode Siggy went to see the Seer. Episode before last, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Okay, I ordered Wardrunas "Yggdrasil," and I think it has most of the songs on there. Not sure about Flokiks wedding though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn2cool4Westeros Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I think the Siggy-Seer one might be a part of an already released Wardruna song, only slightly edited or something - like how the last part of "Dagr" was used to create Floki's wedding song. It'd be kinda weird if they composed an entire piece to be played for only a minute, with 5 seconds of the chorus only playing while Siggy licks the Seer's palm. Y'never know, tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Okay, I ordered Wardrunas "Yggdrasil," and I think it has most of the songs on there. Not sure about Flokiks wedding though. That song is from their previous album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wolf Smith Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I think the actresses are actually sisters. I looked it up, Georgia Hirst plays Torvi and Maude Hirst plays Helga. Since Maude is Michael Hirst daughter "who often appears" in her father work, it is a good bet Georgia is her sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdawnb Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Anyone see the promo for the next episode? It looks like Ivar the Boneless is born. I wonder how they are going to play that out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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