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Iron Hawk

Why did Tywin marry off Cersei to Loras Tyrell?

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I don't understand why Tywin made Cersei marry a Tyrell. I understand how marriage works in Westoros. I know that marriage forms political alliances, and I also know that Tyrell is a very rich family. So why did Tywin make Cersei marry Loras Tyrell?



Was it to form an alliance with the Tyrells? Okay, I can understand that, but why did it take two marriages? Joffrey is already marrying Margery. So why doesn't Tywin make Cersei marry someone from another family? That would make the Lannisters allies with three families. Does two marriages to the same family make a "super alliance?"



Am I missing something here?


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First of all it wasn't Loras...in the books it was his older brother Willas, (who doesn't exist on the show.)



Secondly, he didn't actually succeed in marrying her off.



Lastly, I think Tywin had several motives;



A. to further cement ties between the Tyrell's and the Lannister's and ensure his grandchildren, (and half siblings of the King of Westeros) would rule the Reach.



B. To put an end to the vile 'lies' about Cersei.



C. To get Cersei the hell out of KL. I think by ASOS, Tywin was starting to realize what a failure she was as Queen Regent AND as a mother, and was desperate to find a good excuse for having her leave court while giving her something else to occupy herself with. Just sending her back, single to CR would have caused gossip, but having her marry again, especially to such an important ally wouldn't raise any eyebrows. Remember even after the Tyrell's reject her, (thanks to Olenna's advice,) Tywin was still determined to have Cersei married off again, ASAP. Problem is I'm not sure he would have found many takers...at least not any he'd consider 'respectable' matches. Cersei's reputation by this point is very, VERY stained indeed.


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You're confusing show with the book. Tywin wanted Cersei to marry Willas Tyrell, heir of Highgarden. Which would mean Cersei's son being the Lord Paramount of the Reach some day.



Just imagine Westeros of Tywin's dreams 50 years from now: Tywin's great-grandson by Joffrey is sitting on the Iron Throne, Tywin's great-grandson by Tommen is ruling Stormlands, Tywin's grandson by Jaime is ruling Westerlands, Tywin's grandson by Tyrion is ruling the North (also Riverlands?) and Tywin's grandson by Cersei is ruling the Reach.



The guy's nothing if not a great believer in legacy.




It should be noted that nothing is decided at that point. The Tyrells have yet to accept Tywin's proposal.

They never will: Cersei's too 'used' for them



Edit: what Winnief said


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Just imagine Westeros of Tywin's dreams 50 years from now: Tywin's great-grandson by Joffrey is sitting on the Iron Throne, Tywin's great-grandson by Tommen is ruling Stormlands, Tywin's grandson by Jaime is ruling Westerlands, Tywin's grandson by Tyrion is ruling the North (also Riverlands?) and Tywin's grandson by Cersei is ruling the Reach.

The guy's nothing if not a great believer in legacy.

Precisely. I think Tywin would have wanted to make Tommen marry SHireen if he could have captured the girl. Not to mention that Tywin gave Riverrun to his sister's husband Emmon Frey, (to be ruled by his great-nephews someday) and that Myrcella was sent to marry Prince Trystane of Dorne. I wouldn't be surprised if Tywin, was hoping to arrange 'accidents' for Arianne and Qwentyn to move Trystane up in succession and ensure Tywin's great-grandchildren by Myrcella ruled Dorne.

Really he was just being greedy as always.

It never would have worked; Jaime never wanted CR, the Northerners would never accept Tyrion ruling in the name of his and Sansa's child, (and unbeknownst to Twyin, there were living Starks out there, who came before Sansa in succession as well,) whatever else happens to House Baratheon or the Stormlands they ain't gonna be ruled by no Lannisters, anyone with the last name "Frey" is DESPISED in the Riverlands, poor Myrcella doesn't have the best odds in Dorne, (and the Martell's have been plotting vengeance) and neither the Tyrells nor any other good House in the Reach or in all of Westeros want Cersei in the family.

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Don't forget Myrcella in Dorne too

I haven't forgotten Mycella. I was focused mainly on the Lannister-Tyrell marriages.

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I have another question.



As far as the way marriage works in Westoros, is Tywn legally allowed to tell his children whom they will marry? Are they bound by law to do what he says, or is it more about "honoring your father," doing what your parents say whether you like it or not.


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As far as the way marriage works in Westoros, is Tywn legally allowed to tell his children whom they will marry? Are they bound by law to do what he says, or is it more about "honoring your father," doing what your parents say whether you like it or not.

They're not bound by law-but they're all cowed by Daddy.

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I have another question.

As far as the way marriage works in Westoros, is Tywn legally allowed to tell his children whom they will marry? Are they bound by law to do what he says, or is it more about "honoring your father," doing what your parents say whether you like it or not.

Your not allowed to force people into a marriage...then again you can make it so the marriage is the only option they have.

Example:Marry this person or ill kill you or your family.

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I don't understand why Tywin made Cersei marry a Tyrell. I understand how marriage works in Westoros. I know that marriage forms political alliances, and I also know that Tyrell is a very rich family. So why did Tywin make Cersei marry Loras Tyrell?

Was it to form an alliance with the Tyrells? Okay, I can understand that, but why did it take two marriages? Joffrey is already marrying Margery. So why doesn't Tywin make Cersei marry someone from another family? That would make the Lannisters allies with three families. Does two marriages to the same family make a "super alliance?"

Am I missing something here?

The marriage to Margaery cements ties between the two families, and helps gain the alliance of Mace Tyrell, but Margaery is a female, so is not an heir to highgarden, or at least not high in the line of succession. By marrying Cersei to Loras/Willas, Tywin's grandchild becomes an heir in another strong house.

Also, the Lannisters are starting to become suspicious of the Tyrell's worming their way into a position of control in King's Landing, so this extra marriage may satiate Mace, so Twyin can get away with putting less Tyrell's on the small council and in other positions of power.

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I don't understand why Tywin made Cersei marry a Tyrell. I understand how marriage works in Westoros. I know that marriage forms political alliances, and I also know that Tyrell is a very rich family. So why did Tywin make Cersei marry Loras Tyrell?

Was it to form an alliance with the Tyrells? Okay, I can understand that, but why did it take two marriages? Joffrey is already marrying Margery. So why doesn't Tywin make Cersei marry someone from another family? That would make the Lannisters allies with three families. Does two marriages to the same family make a "super alliance?"

Am I missing something here?

Margaery is marrying into House Baratheon technically.

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In the show it's to give Highgarden's heir a mostly useless (ooooooold!) bride. It's the next best thing after forcing him into the kingsguard to get rid of him as a potential match for other political parties. That's what is so strange about Loras being the only son in the show. It pretty much dooms house Tyrell long before it should be. The only sense I can make of the Loras/Cersei (and it seems to be really doubled down on this season) is that Loras will indeed be the one to kill our mad queen in the end.


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I have another question.

As far as the way marriage works in Westoros, is Tywn legally allowed to tell his children whom they will marry? Are they bound by law to do what he says, or is it more about "honoring your father," doing what your parents say whether you like it or not.

In theory, no one could be forced to marry. In practice, daughters are bartered over as so much price goods, while sons are usually given some choice.

Just look at Tywin and kids: with Cersei it's ''You will marry and you will breed'', with Tyrion he dangles Sansa in front of him while threatening him with Lollys (gasp) and Jaime just tells him to f*** off. (Which Tywin answers with a hissy fit). Lysa Arryn vs Blackfish also comes to mind and poor Sansa was married practically on the sword point without anyone llifting a finger.

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You're confusing show with the book. Tywin wanted Cersei to marry Willas Tyrell, heir of Highgarden. Which would mean Cersei's son being the Lord Paramount of the Reach some day.

Just imagine Westeros of Tywin's dreams 50 years from now: Tywin's great-grandson by Joffrey is sitting on the Iron Throne, Tywin's great-grandson by Tommen is ruling Stormlands, Tywin's grandson by Jaime is ruling Westerlands, Tywin's grandson by Tyrion is ruling the North (also Riverlands?) and Tywin's grandson by Cersei is ruling the Reach.

The guy's nothing if not a great believer in legacy.

It should be noted that nothing is decided at that point. The Tyrells have yet to accept Tywin's proposal.

They never will: Cersei's too 'used' for them

Edit: what Winnief said

You forgot about his great grandson by Myrcella, The Prince of Dorne.

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In the show it's to give Highgarden's heir a mostly useless (ooooooold!) bride. It's the next best thing after forcing him into the kingsguard to get rid of him as a potential match for other political parties. That's what is so strange about Loras being the only son in the show. It pretty much dooms house Tyrell long before it should be. The only sense I can make of the Loras/Cersei (and it seems to be really doubled down on this season) is that Loras will indeed be the one to kill our mad queen in the end.

Actually I'm thinking the betrothal will be officially canceled after either

the purple wedding or Tyrion killing Tywin. The latter most likely since without Daddy twisting her arm, Cersei won't want to marry and Loras will be delighted to get out of it himself.

Also, the Lannisters are starting to become suspicious of the Tyrell's worming their way into a position of control in King's Landing, so this extra marriage may satiate Mace, so Twyin can get away with putting less Tyrell's on the small council and in other positions of power.

Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

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Actually I'm thinking the betrothal will be officially canceled after either

the purple wedding or Tyrion killing Tywin. The latter most likely since without Daddy twisting her arm, Cersei won't want to marry and Loras will be delighted to get out of it himself.

Oh, absolutely, that's what I think too. Question is, if this show "threat" about conscribing Loras to the kingsguard will also happen then? If Queen Regent Cersei does this, it would be so horribly stupid ... as AFFC Cersei is. :bang: If Loras joins of his own volition, it would imply something of a break between him and his family.

Finn made some vague remarks/guesses (?) in that latter direction in a recent interview.

But hey, this is the ASOS thread and nothing of that stuff ever happens in the books.

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They're not bound by law-but they're all cowed by Daddy.

I believe they will have to be cowed by a Daddy like Tywin

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Oh, absolutely, that's what I think too. Question is, if this show "threat" about conscribing Loras to the kingsguard will also happen then? If Queen Regent Cersei does this, it would be so horribly stupid ... as AFFC Cersei is. :bang: If Loras joins of his own volition, it would imply something of a break between him and his family.

Finn made some vague remarks/guesses (?) in that latter direction in a recent interview.

But hey, this is the ASOS thread and nothing of that stuff ever happens in the books.

In the novel, Tywin actually proposed to marry Cersei to Loras's elder brother Willas, the heir of the house Tyrell, and Loras joined the kingsguard right after battle of the blackwater bay, it was part of the reward to House Tyrell

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