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Amber Jade

Vary's true motive

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Varys fed Aerys's paranoia. Feeding it led to the Targaryens getting overthrown.

Barristan said the rot in Aerys's reign didn't begin until Varys came.

Barristan said. I love Barristan, but he's no politician, and he can be incredibly blind when he wants to be. The rot had to have been there before. Getting worse after he arrived still doesn't make it Varys' fault. Coincidental timing. Plus Varys makes a great scapegoat. He said himself that no one trusts a eunuch, and he's a foreigner to boot. Remember how he had to disappear after Tyrion's escape because he knew he was going to be blamed for letting him out when it was really Jamie? The guy's a lightning rod for blame.

Varys didn't have to feed Aerys' paranoia. The guy was crazy and he saw plots everywhere. Varys could have told him the absolute truth and Aerys still would have been nuts. And to be fair, the text implies that his son was plotting against him.

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Aerys's condition worsened after Duskendale. If my memory is correct, didn't he go there with the KG? Was Barristan among them? In that case, it's easier to say "oh, he got worst after Varys" than "yes, he got worse because we let the King get captured"

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I do not trust Varys. The scene where he kills Kevan has to be read as a whole to get all the nuances right but I will quote enough to make my point. I suggest a reread with Varys planning the scene ahead in mind.



Now, pay attention to the contrast between Varys seemingly showing compassion to Kevan and playing with him at the same time.



Forgive me, I did it for a good cause, it pains me, you do not deserve, do forgive me, and all the while telling Kevan how all he wanted to do will come to nought, and how Aegon will come and remove Tommen, how all hope for lannisters is gone...



And then:


“I am sorry.” Varys wrung his hands. “You are suffering, I know, yet here I stand going on like some silly old woman. Time to make an end to it.” The eunuch pursed his lips and gave a little whistle.


- The end is getting cut into pieces. Alive.



If he were truly sorry he would have made a quick end of it, he wasn't. I think he was taking sick pleasure in drawing Kevan's death out.



I see no reason to believe that this was a moment of honesty.


...



Another thing I noticed though: Varys opened the window but white raven came of its own accord to the window sill. At the very moment Varys is pontificating on how awesome Aegon is and how victorious he is going to be GRRM sends us message 'Winter Has Come'.


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To a certain extent I believe Varys is working for the realm, although he may have a hidden pride and believes that Blackfyre is the best option despite Young Griff's current shortcomings.


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I do not trust Varys. The scene where he kills Kevan has to be read as a whole to get all the nuances right but I will quote enough to make my point. I suggest a reread with Varys planning the scene ahead in mind.

Now, pay attention to the contrast between Varys seemingly showing compassion to Kevan and playing with him at the same time.

Forgive me, I did it for a good cause, it pains me, you do not deserve, do forgive me, and all the while telling Kevan how all he wanted to do will come to nought, and how Aegon will come and remove Tommen, how all hope for lannisters is gone...

And then:

“I am sorry.” Varys wrung his hands. “You are suffering, I know, yet here I stand going on like some silly old woman. Time to make an end to it.” The eunuch pursed his lips and gave a little whistle.

- The end is getting cut into pieces. Alive.

If he were truly sorry he would have made a quick end of it, he wasn't. I think he was taking sick pleasure in drawing Kevan's death out.

I see no reason to believe that this was a moment of honesty.

I was not under the impression that Varys had Kevan get swiss-cheesed, but rather swiftly cut down.

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The Brightfyre theory, i believe

Varys is pro-Blackfyre. Or Brightfyre, depending on the theory to which you subscribe.

Spread the Brightfyre love :D

I definetly stand behind the Blackfyre theory, I'll look at the Brightfyre expansion later.

Young Griff is Aegon the questionable colored dragon.

Let us know what you think of it ;)

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I was not under the impression that Varys had Kevan get swiss-cheesed, but rather swiftly cut down.

Ser Kevan was cold as ice, and every labored breath sent a fresh stab of pain through him. He glimpsed movement, heard the soft scuffling sound of slippered feet on stone. A child emerged from a pool of darkness, a pale boy in a ragged robe, no more than nine or ten. Another rose up behind the Grand Maester’s chair. The girl who had opened the door for him was there as well. They were all around him, half a dozen of them, white-faced children with dark eyes, boys and girls together.

And in their hands, the daggers.

It might be that swiss cheesing is a bit harsh, but half a dozen children with daggers are not necessary to finish off Kevan. Just another quarrel. Oh, sure, stab wounds at Tyrion level, but why half a dozen children? How good are they at finding the right spots to stab for quick death?

And pay attention to the tone, we have seen blood, we have found out that Pycelle shat his pants while dying, we have been there with Kevan in his agony, why is it that the camera zooms out and we have a scene break right there and then? IMO this scene was written as horror and this was a 'gory discretion shot'.

Anybody has a different impression?

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I'm in on the Brightfyre deal

Huzzah! Yet another poster who has been converted! Welcome to the team :cheers:

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Varys fed Aerys's paranoia. Feeding it led to the Targaryens getting overthrown.

If that was Varys' motive (to get rid of the current Targ dynasty) from the get-go, wouldn't it have been easier for him to support Pycelle in encouraging Aerys to open his doors to Tywin during RR? Instead, it is noted that he advised against Aerys opening his gates.

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If that was Varys' motive (to get rid of the current Targ dynasty) from the get-go, wouldn't it have been easier for him to support Pycelle in encouraging Aerys to open his doors to Tywin during RR? Instead, it is noted that he advised against Aerys opening his gates.

It all depends on how he did it. Remember, he also advised Tyrion against climbing the ladders to Tower of the hand. :dunno:

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If that was Varys' motive (to get rid of the current Targ dynasty) from the get-go, wouldn't it have been easier for him to support Pycelle in encouraging Aerys to open his doors to Tywin during RR? Instead, it is noted that he advised against Aerys opening his gates.

Except that would leave doubts about his loyalty as if he was willing to betray Aerys, then what would stop him from doing the same with Robert? Unlike Tywin, Varys has no daughter or family to speak of he can marry to Robert's family or serve as squires.

He likely made it look like he was trying when he actually wasn't.

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Brightfyre. All the way. Aegon, the three-headed (Targaryen/Blackfyre/Brightflame) dragon, uniting the three bloodlines, ending the family disputes, For The Realm.


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Brightfyre. All the way. Aegon, the three-headed (Targaryen/Blackfyre/Brightflame) dragon, uniting the three bloodlines, ending the family disputes, For The Realm.

I don't recall any disputes between the Brightflame line and Egg's line. The Blackfyres and Targaryens have a history however. The plan didn't include Aegon marrying Dany until her dragons hatched. Illyrio himself said he didn't expect Dany to last long.

I think adding Brightflame to the mix is unnecessary at this point as Blackfyre is enough motivation,

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I don't recall any disputes between the Brightflame line and Egg's line. The Blackfyres and Targaryens have a history however. The plan didn't include Aegon marrying Dany until her dragons hatched. Illyrio himself said he didn't expect Dany to last long.

I think adding Brightflame to the mix is unnecessary at this point as Blackfyre is enough motivation,

think of it though, if he is a direct descent, it does in fact put all "3" bloodlines in one person, thus, three heads. and it unites blackfyre/targ into one as well. it puts to rest any ongoing lingering fueds (which there shouldnt be, it appears he's the only one lol) and it's known that the world was much better off with targs in control (excluding aerys).

For The Realm!

And guaranteed, Daenerys will just go ahead and ruin it all. Varys' plan for a perfect realm, and Daenerys growing to wild and unruly. Too much of her story happened without her knowing the true intent of it all, and too much has changed outside the plan, There's no way she'll submit

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think of it though, if he is a direct descent, it does in fact put all "3" bloodlines in one person, thus, three heads. and it unites blackfyre/targ into one as well. it puts to rest any ongoing lingering fueds (which there shouldnt be, it appears he's the only one lol) and it's known that the world was much better off with targs in control (excluding aerys).

For The Realm!

And guaranteed, Daenerys will just go ahead and ruin it all. Varys' plan for a perfect realm, and Daenerys growing to wild and unruly. Too much of her story happened without her knowing the true intent of it all, and too much has changed outside the plan, There's no way she'll submit

Except the Brighflame line is unnecessary in this instance. I don't see any clues pointing to descent from Aerion. Besides, "three heads of the dragon" has nothing to do with it. Dany marrying Aegon wasn't part of the plan until her dragons hatched.

For the realm is BS. If Varys was truly interested in the welfare of the realm he wouldn't have worked to have the Targaryens overthrown in the first place, or encourage wars.

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Huzzah! Yet another poster who has been converted! Welcome to the team :cheers:

On the topic of Brightflame, he died drinking wildfire, thinking it would turn him into a dragon. Was Aerys II just like "Naw, here's the problem. Aerion just wasn't trying big enough so what we're going to do is level Kings Landing, that should do the trick." He was truly mad, no doubt about it.

Surely Varys knew or could've assumed that Aerys was planning such a thing, did he have little birds lying in wait or was he just assuming Jaime would take care of things?

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Except the Brighflame line is unnecessary in this instance. I don't see any clues pointing to descent from Aerion. Besides, "three heads of the dragon" has nothing to do with it. Dany marrying Aegon wasn't part of the plan until her dragons hatched.

For the realm is BS. If Varys was truly interested in the welfare of the realm he wouldn't have worked to have the Targaryens overthrown in the first place, or encourage wars.

But only if Aerys was mad and he wanted Rhaegar to be King? And then some northern girl frigged up that plan....

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Barristan said. I love Barristan, but he's no politician, and he can be incredibly blind when he wants to be. The rot had to have been there before. Getting worse after he arrived still doesn't make it Varys' fault. Coincidental timing. Plus Varys makes a great scapegoat. He said himself that no one trusts a eunuch, and he's a foreigner to boot. Remember how he had to disappear after Tyrion's escape because he knew he was going to be blamed for letting him out when it was really Jamie? The guy's a lightning rod for blame.

Varys didn't have to feed Aerys' paranoia. The guy was crazy and he saw plots everywhere. Varys could have told him the absolute truth and Aerys still would have been nuts. And to be fair, the text implies that his son was plotting against him.

Barristan has served Aerys his entire reign, and I don't see how Aerys kept anything from him as the KG are required to keep the king's secrets. He doesn't need to be a politician to observe things. Barristan seldom scapegoated anyone.

Varys likely helped his paranoia along. Rhaegar was at most thinking of a Great Council, and with good reason, his father was dangerously insane.

Aerys's condition worsened after Duskendale. If my memory is correct, didn't he go there with the KG? Was Barristan among them? In that case, it's easier to say "oh, he got worst after Varys" than "yes, he got worse because we let the King get captured"

Your description doesn't fit Barristan's character. He ha snot been known to shift blame onto anyone. He nor any of the KG did anything wrong that led to Aerys being captured.

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In my absolutely worthless opinion, the whole Brightfyre Theory is the prefect example of deducting reasoning run amuck.



This is not the wisdom of crowds, this is an influenced mob validating thread-bare speculation.



Someone forms a theory then cherry picks passages from the books that remotely supports it and alas, it is undeniable.



"June has more brides than any other month. June has more flys than any other month. Therefore, brides cause flys"



That's what is happening.



When all is said and done, the Brightfyre Conspiracy Theorists will say, "Well, GRRM just didn't put enough information in the books to clearly validate the theory, but we know it's right".



<--- Blackfyre Denier

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