Wmarshal Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 And the whole Targaryen line was the only to have survived the Doom of Valyria, solely because they followed a prophecy. If the one Rhaegar was following was from the same source, Daenys the Dreamer, it would have high credibility. Not really, seeing as he was wrong before. Targs bringing wrong in this manner outscores being right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Not really, seeing as he was wrong before. Targs bringing wrong in this manner outscores being right. I said it, not him. The prophecy. Rhaegar might have been wrong in its interpretation, but the source itself was right at least once, in a matter of survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I don't agree with this at all, Elia would have to be an idiot to agree to Rhaegar's plan. The Targ history is marked by half sibling wars and back stabbing. Maegor, Aegon the second, Daemon, all where ass clowns to half siblings and their kids. Civil war was the Targs thing, that and warring with Dornish. Unless Elia lived in a cave, she would know this. I can see where you are coming from. Either way, whether Elia agreed to it or not Rhaegar would have gone ahead with it so this is not a very important in the context of this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I said it, not him. The prophecy. Rhaegar might have been wrong in its interpretation, but the source itself was right at least once, in a matter of survival. And he was interpreting the prophecy before, why would Elia think he was reading it right this time when it only looked like an excuse to get into Lyanna's pants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I can see where you are coming from. Either way, whether Elia agreed to it or not Rhaegar would have gone ahead with it so this is not a very important in the context of this discussion. I know I just hate it when people think that was the logical move for Elia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderG Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 A question and a thought, first the question:What do we know about Rickard Stark, Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully? I get a vibe as if they had been a triumvirate to get rid of the Targaryens?Now the thought: Maybe Rhaegar crowning Lyanna as queen of love and beauty at Harrenhal was a hidden message to the northern lords that he agreed with their plan and Lyanna took it wrong. Stuff evolved, Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna, and Brandon felt like Rhaegar had betrayed the northern lords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 You'd love this thread, ThunderG ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 A question and a thought, first the question:What do we know about Rickard Stark, Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully? I get a vibe as if they had been a triumvirate to get rid of the Targaryens?Now the thought: Maybe Rhaegar crowning Lyanna as queen of love and beauty at Harrenhal was a hidden message to the northern lords that he agreed with their plan and Lyanna took it wrong. Stuff evolved, Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna, and Brandon felt like Rhaegar had betrayed the northern lords?He did, Robert was meant to marry Lyanna, Rhaegar spat at Rickard's honor by taking his betrothed daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 A question and a thought, first the question:What do we know about Rickard Stark, Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully? I get a vibe as if they had been a triumvirate to get rid of the Targaryens?Now the thought: Maybe Rhaegar crowning Lyanna as queen of love and beauty at Harrenhal was a hidden message to the northern lords that he agreed with their plan and Lyanna took it wrong. Stuff evolved, Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna, and Brandon felt like Rhaegar had betrayed the northern lords? If they did, I don't think they want to get rid of ALL Targaryens, only Aerys. And you just made me think on the possibilities of Rickard actually sending Lyanna with Rhaegar for some other purpose, and Brandon didn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 If they did, I don't think they want to get rid of ALL Targaryens, only Aerys. And you just made me think on the possibilities of Rickard actually sending Lyanna with Rhaegar for some other purpose, and Brandon didn't know. Which would make no sense seeing as Rickard betrothed Lyanna to Bobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderG Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 You'd love this thread, ThunderG ;)Thank you, started reading right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I wonder what the "official" version of Rhaegar's and Lyanna's story is - do Westerosi believe Lyanna was abducted or eloped? I'm leaning towards the former, with only a select few (Ned, Howland & co) knowing the truth. Actions and characters of Rhaegar, Lyanna and Brandon also provide lots of food for thought. What's the nature of Rhaegar's relationship with Lyanna - prophecy or love? Did Lyanna really elope without contacting her family? Did Rhaegar? Was Brandon's hotheadedness really a reason enough for doing something so horribly stupid? are all questions worthy of plenty of speculation. And speculate is all we can do, since there's no proof either way. If we accept the premise that R's, L's and B's actions are too much out of character and some conspiracy took place, then the logical question appear - who would stage such an operation? Why would anyone want to stop communication between R and L and their families, therefore escalating the tension? Who spread out false stories that eventually reached Brandon's ears? Who would have both the means and the motive to execute this plan? Obvious answer, of course, is Varys - but it seems inconsistent with his other actions (warning Aerys about Rhaegar's plot or telling him to to let Tywin in KL). Who else could it be? I'm also curious whether e.g. Rhaegar really isolated himself with Lyanna for several months while realm went to shit? Did he try to contact his family or the Starks? For all his obsessions about prophecies, he's described as dutiful and intelligent man who would not neglect realm-wide rebellion for months. If he suspected someone was tampering with his mail, couldn't he have send Arthur or Oswell with a message? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 There really shouldn't be that much to say in the OP if were going off what we actually know of the situation. We know what Rhaegars motivations were (there must be three) We know Eddard had the best understanding out of anybody about what really happened considering he talked to Lyanna before she died, and he certaintly didn't have the sort of animosity for Rhaegar that he would have if he'd actually kidnapped and raped her as was reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 There really shouldn't be that much to say in the OP if were going off what we actually know of the situation. We know what Rhaegars motivations were (there must be three) We know Eddard had the best understanding out of anybody about what really happened considering he talked to Lyanna before she died, and he certaintly didn't have the sort of animosity for Rhaegar that he would have if he'd actually kidnapped and raped her as was reported. We also know he shamed his wife for Lyanna. And that he fromed a pretty silly plan which left his wife and kids in Aerys mad hands. And changed his mind on who was the PTWP showing he had no hard core evidence or reason to do what he did. Also that he did not aid in the war he started till the very end. As to Ned, he has no animosity to Aerys either, not showing good character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Kings Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 If anything, there is not enough hate on Rhaegar the dumb Targaryen and Lyanna the dishonorable Stark. Because of 78 threads of R+L=J equation threads..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 @AegonsBannerman What are you even talking about? How is that comment a response to what you quoted? I was saying what we know about the situation, (per the OP) and you comment with how you personally view the morality of the characters involved in that situation with opinionated adjectives such as "silly", as if I'd done something similar. How is that comment specific to my quote ? And I'm not even going to respond to the actual content of your comment 1. Because its simply not what I'm discussing (character opinions)2. I'm not going to give you something else to quote instead of actually responding to the fact that you quoted me while talking about something entirely different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 @AegonsBannerman What are you even talking about? How is that comment a response to what you quoted? I was saying what we know about the situation, (per the OP) and you comment with how you personally view the morality of the characters involved in that situation, as if I'd done something similar. How is that comment specific to my quote ? Everything I posted was what we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 ^@Aegonsbannerman 1. "Everything I posted is what we know" Ok that's a response to the OP and entire thread, so your not answering my question at all, how is that specific to what you quoted me on? Your not going to answer it either clearly . 2. Everything you posted isn't "what we know" its what you think. We don't "know" that Rhaegar was "silly" or that Ned lacked "good character" Those are opinions no matter what we know ( and 2 pretty terrible ones) So just for the record, you had absolutely no comprehensible reason for quoting me while posting what you posted; which I thank you for because if you had actually responded properly I wouldn't have realized you have no idea what your talking about, and I would've wasted a bunch of time responding to all your points which all make about as much sense as your response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 ^@Aegonsbannerman 1. "Everything I posted is what we know" Ok that's a response to the OP and entire thread, so your not answering my question at all, how is that specific to what you quoted me on? Your not going to answer it either clearly . 2. Everything you posted isn't "what we know" its what you think. We don't "know" that Rhaegar was "silly" or that Ned lacked "good character" Those are opinions no matter what we know ( and 2 pretty terrible ones) It was an add to what we know of your post. I was talking about his plan, and I was pointing out how your, Ned's comment did not show good character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 ^ Yea that's the exact point, your talking about Ned's (and Rhaegars) character, which have nothing to do with analyzing what we know. And its pretty obvious that there's no point in a discussion with a person who thinks Ned wasn't a good person, your clearly just trying to be different at that point an arguing for arguments sake. Hey everybody come have an intelligent debate with AegonsBannerman, a kid who says the fact that Ned never specifically displayed animosity towards Aerys during the specific moments we're in his POV shows a lack of character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.