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[Book Spoilers] EP402 Discussion


Ran
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I never thought that Bronn betrayed Tyrion. Tyrion asked Bronn to be his champion. Bronn was like "Dude, you pay me well, and you're cool and all, but that's the fucking Mountain. I'd die." and Tyrion basically is like well, thought I'd ask and doesn't seem to see it as a betrayal. Later when Bronn messes with them and names the baby Tyrion, I took that as a sign that he's still on Tyrion's side.

So, IDK what to make of the show changes here. If they have Bronn outright betray Tyrion, I'll be annoyed. I do wonder if Tywin got a hold of Shae, he could have nabbed her on the ship. Or what Varys's role in all this is, if he never was going to help her get to Pentos.

I never thought of it was a betrayal either. I found it surprisingly realistic, something you don't see in books/television/movies that often.

Bronn is a sellsword. He sells his sword for money. It made sense for him to champion Tyrion in the Vale. The potential rewards for him outweighed the risk. What did he have to lose? When Tyrion again needs a champion, Bronn lucks has changed for the better and he's no longer willing to risk his neck for Tyrion. He likes Tyrion and is probably grateful to him but he's in this business for himself. Even if he could beat The Mountain, Tyrion isn't in a position to give him anything for it. So the risk isn't worth it.

I kind of hope they keep this point with Bronn but somehow I doubt it.

Show Shae can't take a hint to save her life or understand what Tyrion was trying to do.

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Also....

Tyron killing Shae is going to be far more controvertional now...

I dont think they will let him kill her, it might be one of the changes of the show.

If they let him kil her they will probably make shae do something terrible so the audience sees that she deserves her death

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Jaime now officially 0 for 3 in Kingsguarding.

Another change by the show I am satisfied with.

(I love, btw, how even he did more than Trant/the others, who literally stood around and did nothing. We're told at the beginning of the story that The Kingsguard is "the best of the best" and immediately begins hammering home that this Has Not Been True In A Long Time. The show treating the lot of them like (mostly un-named) complete jabronies is a wonderful little detail.)

Yoooouuu! Ive been waiting to hear your noise! Did you get a load of Fat Walda? Shits gonna be awesome!

Also....

Tyron killing Shae is going to be far more controvertional now...

I know. I cant wait. Dinklage can do it. Im so convinced he can do Dark!Tyrion after his growling at her this episode.

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I would have found the Shireen/Melisandre scene a good deal more touching if I weren't worried that Shireen's going to be burned as well at Melisandre's behest.



...Now that I think about it, TV Shireen being disturbed by the burning of her uncle might be a hint from GRRM that she'll meet the same fate. Eep.





I know. I cant wait. Dinklage can do it. Im so convinced he can do Dark!Tyrion after his growling at her this episode.


Yup. It's going to be amazing.



...On the other hand, Shae is seriously deluded. She's seen up close and personal what Tywin and Cersei are capable of, and she still thinks Tyrion can successfully take them on? Moreover, she's seen how unwilling Tyrion is to choose her over his family despite the many, many times she's begged him to do so (asking him to flee in 2x10 and in 3x07), and she still thinks that he'll choose her? Finally, she clearly suspects in 4x01 that Tyrion is losing interest in her, and she still makes her big pitch to stay and fight? There's being in love, and then there's delusion, and Shae seems to fall into the latter category.


Edited by Newstar
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Wtf you asking me that for? Probably did that because it would take about four episodes to get those two back to KL to begin with. Notice how everything is a bit more condensed following the wedding and zooming right into post wedding stuff. There. Was. No. Time.

wtf are you asking me wtf? sheesh. "they" made a decision to get Jaime into KL early and be present for Joff's death.... and didn't even show a millisecond of emotional reaction from him while Joff's eyes were filling up with blood?

ETA it's the same problem I had with last week's episode... a simple look of reaction between Arya and the Hound would have made that scene a million percent better, even though it was a great scene.

Why have major characters in a penultimate scene if they aren't going to react? They showed random courtiers looking worried/horrified, why not Jaime?

Edited by Fool of a Book
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Yoooouuu! Ive been waiting to hear your noise! Did you get a load of Fat Walda? Shits gonna be awesome!

I know. I cant wait. Dinklage can do it. Im so convinced he can do Dark!Tyrion after his growling at her this episode.

I dont know what he is doing the next season and a half, since everything done after is boring as hell.
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When Varys says "Have you ever known your father make an ¿idle? threat?", Varys sound exactly like Petyr. In the trailer, I thought it was Batm-- Baelish.

heh, Varys was soooo mad. I was almost expecting his face to turn red.

I would have found the Shireen/Melisandre scene a good deal more touching if I weren't worried that Shireen's going to be burned as well at Melisandre's behest.

...Now that I think about it, TV Shireen being disturbed by the burning of her uncle might be a hint from GRRM that she'll meet the same fate. Eep.

D: Noooooooo

wtf are you asking me wtf? sheesh. "they" made a decision to get Jaime into KL early and be present for Joff's death.... and didn't even show a millisecond of emotional reaction from him while Joff's eyes were filling up with blood?

Go away.

Joffrey throwing coins at Sigur Ros so they would go away was also a nice touch.

The hipster boards I read are, of course, highly amused by this

Harrr.

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Sorry if I missed this, but why is everyone so certain that she didn't leave?

Even though this is the discussion for the book readers, I won't be specific, but in the books, we have very good reason to know she did not actually leave.

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Most of it is back on page 19. This thread moves fast (I started writing it on page 13) :D

Currently busy having a cigarette post-Joffdeath

Hehe! I just read it.

And people doubted Pedro Pascal when the casting was first announced.

RIIIGHT? Haters to the left! I also agree with you that the show did the dwarf tilts way better. Hell, i think i like the Purple Wedding itself much better in the show. Sometimes, adaptation does some things better. Mum worked out it was Olenna from the get-go. Shes sharp.

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Sorry if I missed this, but why is everyone so certain that she didn't leave?

Because she has to be around to give testimony condemning Tyrion in 4x0_ (4x06 or 4x07, I'm guessing), something she can hardly do if she's chilling in Pentos.

Edited by Newstar
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I would have found the Shireen/Melisandre scene a good deal more touching if I weren't worried that Shireen's going to be burned as well at Melisandre's behest.

...Now that I think about it, TV Shireen being disturbed by the burning of her uncle might be a hint from GRRM that she'll meet the same fate. Eep.

Surefire way to get me off Team Stannis is for that to happen. Will be having none of that.

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I understand why they changed most of the things, including Sir Illyn, but two things I don't get:

1) Why Melisandre was burning Ser Axell Florent, instead of Ser Alester, and why he suddenly became Selyse's brother. Also, Stannis didn't command his death because he was a sinner (which would make him more of a fanatic), but because he tries to negotiate a peace treaty with Tywin Lannister behind Stannis' back.

2) Why Lady Olenna doesn't put her hands on Sansa's necklace, to remove one of the gems, possibly containing the poison that killed Joffrey.

I haven't yet read through the entire thread so apologies in advance if someone else has said this already.

If you pause the episode at the 33:47 mark you can see the Qot playing with Sansa's hair-braid-thing and you can just detect a hint of metal in her fingers. Then if you look again at the 33:49-50 mark, you can see that the stone that's right next to her braid is missing. It's harder to tell since her dress is a much more similar color than her skin, so the stones that are against her skin stand out MUCH more. As far as I can tell, it looks like a missing stone to me. It's not something that an unsullied (I assume that's a term for those who watch the show but haven't read the books?) would catch, but knowing exactly what to look for really helped. It was quite subtlety done actually imo.

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Also....

Tyron killing Shae is going to be far more controvertional now...

I dont think they will let him kill her, it might be one of the changes of the show.

If they let him kil her they will probably make shae do something terrible so the audience sees that she deserves her death

I think they'll still get there in the end. We don't see Shae boarding a ship or anything, just Bronn saying she did- the guy who is discreet for the highest bidder according to the episode. And Varys apparently is involved in getting her there- who won't lie to Tywin or Cerei according to the episode. I think they are setting it up that Shae's didn't really leave and that Tywin and Cersei end up with her, something that was also mentioned in the episode.

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